No GNW (or “Peter goes South”)
- Thread starter alexmilman
- Start date
Don’t underestimate the options. In OTL within this time slot there was Italian-Ottoman War (Italian invasion of Libya). It can cause step by step involvement of other powers, especially if some of the warships are being made year or two ahead of the schedule…
ITTL Poland as a cause of a noticeable land conflict is unrealistic: it is fully surrounded by the greater powers more or less friendly to each other and not having any serious reasons to tolerate a disturbance coming from this specific corner.
I’d rather have them being busy (and weakened) by the European squabble than seriously (on wwii level) involved on the Pacific. Anyway, the technology of the early XX is not going to produce the same destruction as in 1940s.
My plan is not involving Russia as the main British opponent: these two can’t fight each other in a meaningful way. Anyway, ITTL the British Navy has much more limited opportunities to engage with the Russian fleet than in OTL. Nope. It is going to be prolonged, nasty and with its only serious competitor (well, perhaps with some secondary contributors one of which can be RE but not necessarily so).
Indeed.
I think something interesting is USA and Mexico. Mexico still has most of the north, but still has the same problems that Mexico OTL had. It is much more populated and rich.
When I said that having the north would only make them have a wider border. The border would be much more difficult to monitor, with that more immigrants could cross.
On the other hand, the USA is less populated and they don't have the Southwest. There are more than 70 million people who are no longer here. They also don't have Hawaii, plus the entire West Coast is much less populated. I highly doubt they would become the superpower they are without Europe self-destructing.
The first thing I remember is that Hollywood doesn't exist, where do you think the American film industry would move?
When I said that having the north would only make them have a wider border. The border would be much more difficult to monitor, with that more immigrants could cross.
On the other hand, the USA is less populated and they don't have the Southwest. There are more than 70 million people who are no longer here. They also don't have Hawaii, plus the entire West Coast is much less populated. I highly doubt they would become the superpower they are without Europe self-destructing.
The first thing I remember is that Hollywood doesn't exist, where do you think the American film industry would move?
In this context, yes. A preaching prick with an empty head full of the crazy ideas.
I said nothing about them not having Hawaii. Why wouldn’t they?
It is enough for them to be a Power.
First of all, it can move to Mexico if situation is secure and the taxes are low. Or it can move to the Northern CA or to the US part of Nevada, or to Florida, etc. As certain Englishman with a wart put it, “'Go to hell or to Connacht”. They’d find some place.
The part about them moving to Mexico is actually hilarious. I don't know how that would be exactly, on the other hand, I also saw that they moved to Florida but for various reasons they moved to California. On the other hand, immigration problems would do wonders for the demography of certain areas.
As I understand the main factors were:
- Many sunny days
- Cheap real estate and land
- Availability of a reasonably “exotic” landscape (but basically, who cares if you can shoot Wild West, Mexico and Russia in Spain and Mongolia in Utah or Yugoslavia).
- Well-developed infrastructure and communications
Who cares, since you said possibly in Mexico that idea doesn't leave my mind. Because it would be very funny, for various reasons to settle in the area again.
It sounds so funny how they just went to another country because I let them do whatever. It looks very interesting.
It sounds so funny how they just went to another country because I let them do whatever. It looks very interesting.
Why don’t you start a TL with Hollywood in Mexico? I don’t know LA area well enough to go into any defails.
It would be a nice turnaround if the Americas get the wars this time around. US vs Mexico, with international victims like the Russian and Spanish drawn in. Maybe even the Brits. A idiotic conclusions in the White House about the RE, Mexico acting up, some shots fired, it could become a mess fast. But I don't recall WW as a fighter, but might be because I only know him from his post WW1 stuff.
China stays a good option as well, but it's too weak for any real fight.
China stays a good option as well, but it's too weak for any real fight.
Asides from being a racist fuck who removed the few chances black people had for social mobility in the federal government by doing things like segregating the navy and being responsible for the first resurgence of the KKK by showing the Birth of a Nation in the Whitehouse (he himself being a Lost Cause "historian") and praising it to hell and back. He was also the one who was the main diplomat of America in Versailles and essentially did his 13 Points but also ignored the likes of Ho Chin Mih and helped leave a continent that would see war in 20 years again, not to mention his intervention in the Russian Civil War as well as the Red Scare afterwards would implement an example of government using it's power to do ilegal actions and deporting people in order to "maintain order"
Agree on everything except one thing: “Birth of a Nation”, besides being a racist (*), was (is) a great piece of art with a lot of cinematographic innovations, which makes an issue quite complicated. However, I strongly suspect that WW was watching it not due to its artistic merits.
I’m still trying to figure out a plausible scenario for mini-wwi which would keep the US out of picture and probably it should be “the Bad Ugly Brits” or their ally (Italy?) doing something nasty, which would preclude sympathies of the American public. Maybe something like a belated Boer War combined with Italian-Turkish War and something else? Italian atrocities in Libya could be overlooked (killed natives, who cares)but surely the poor brave white Boers are just calling for a sympathy (ITTL territory of OTL Transvaal was left somewhat in a limbo with Brits getting “right” to it but not definitely moving to it immediately so the Dutch settlers from Cape can move into the area, declare an independent state, etc. Wilhelm may go further than in OTL in his Boers’ support and he is a good guy.
Italy may attack Russian-Ottoman base on Corfu triggering wide international support for an offended side (before this there is Russian-American reproach, I have some ideas on this).
Unprovoked British attack on Swedish New Zealand looks much less realistic. Direct military confrontation in China with Russia and Japan, the same. Japan’s attack on the British colonies - too early.
So far, I’m somewhat short of the plausible ideas.
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(*) Or reflecting the (white) Southern point of view, like “Gone with the wind”, which remains a great book (personally, I found it rather irritating in the general terms of the societal attitudes which are definitely not “modern” on more than one account but this is what making it authentic instead of being a piece of PC nonsense like “Uncle Tom…”). 😜
How about India?
It sounds like a scenario that could screw up the British Empire permanently and with some shenanigans it could include other contenders.
It sounds like a scenario that could screw up the British Empire permanently and with some shenanigans it could include other contenders.
Tempting but I don’t know enough of the situation to say something meaningful except that Russian invasion of it was not realistic. 😉
Having the American Isolationists be more successful would be a huge boost for the U.S. staying out of WWI. Having Wilson maintain his platform of isolationism while the U.S. becomes more anti-UK instead of anti-Germany (due to events before and during WWI) is likely how it's going to happen, but we'll see how it pans out.
IIRC Wilson was sympathetic to the Boer cause and could even be more sympathetic if he managed to meet Jan Smuts earlier in his life by being a neutral mediator (like a more radical Boer War leading to a separation of the British Cape and the Boer Republics).