Our Soviet Union (USSR)
- Thread starter CountofDooku
- Start date
A & D - we should use our influence with the Chinese government to allow the peaceful evacuation of foreigners, and we will assist in the evacuation of all those who wish to leave.
By the way no matter how this crisis ends, it clearly show how badly USSR needs a strong and capable navy. British have once again showed how important is control of your coastlines, or rather complete lack of it in case of China. Guess Wang had other priorities, but we mcan be sure that what happened to China today, can happen to USSR tomorrow.
At the end, it seems that my initiatives to buy older battleships and turn them into stationary defence points in our most important ports and coastal cities was the right one, as the british navy in order to reach the shore would be forced to spend a lot of time on simply dealing with them. In case of China, the Brits simply landed on the shore without any problems and Chinese couldn't do anything to prevent the UK form taking over one of their biggest cities.
Right now, after purchase of former Central Powers and Entente number of battleships and other ships, we were able to quickly plug the holes in our coastal defences, so now we are more or less ready for such potential scenario, unlike China which was caught with pants down.
Of course, our offensive naval potential is rather small obviously, but the defensive one is quite high given our situation and our limited resources at the moment, but Britain wouldn't be so eager to do the same in Sevastopol or Vladivostok for example, as we have taken care of proper coastal defences.
At the end, it seems that my initiatives to buy older battleships and turn them into stationary defence points in our most important ports and coastal cities was the right one, as the british navy in order to reach the shore would be forced to spend a lot of time on simply dealing with them. In case of China, the Brits simply landed on the shore without any problems and Chinese couldn't do anything to prevent the UK form taking over one of their biggest cities.
Right now, after purchase of former Central Powers and Entente number of battleships and other ships, we were able to quickly plug the holes in our coastal defences, so now we are more or less ready for such potential scenario, unlike China which was caught with pants down.
Of course, our offensive naval potential is rather small obviously, but the defensive one is quite high given our situation and our limited resources at the moment, but Britain wouldn't be so eager to do the same in Sevastopol or Vladivostok for example, as we have taken care of proper coastal defences.
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I agree with the others that a combination of A&D is our best bet at the minute, we need to show the other powers that we're deadicated to peace while not leaving our Chinese allies out to dry.
Also, while I agree that we should buy up some older ships to help beef up our navy fleet; I disagree with the idea that we change them into stationary defense points.
I'm unsure if you saw a post I made earlier in the thread, but I think the best thing for us to do is to convert these old battleships into Aircraft carriers.
We are already fostering a beefer red air force compared to OTL through our civilian initiatives like an increased focus on Air travel and postal delivery via air, to not build off these advancements, would be patentally absurd.
I think we should buy one or two battleships, convert them to aircraft carriers and the money we would've spend on the other old ships should instead go to our Beauru of Proletariat Science to help craft new seaplanes and tactical bombers.
Also, I vote that we build some smaller ships and have a new "Red Marines brigade" who will be the first line of defence on all our shores whether it be on the high seas or the beach.
So converted auxillary carriers basically? Also full deck conversions, or only partial ones, leaving some gun implacements and shelling abilities as well (even if not very good ones)?
Soviet Marine Naval Infantry are always welcome, even if we would not use them in reguards to most nearby border areas most likely, but during a future global conflict.
At max 2 or 3 might be handy to develop doctrine, though it's a tad ASB to already see the value. Wartime they are useless except for transport. The USSR does not need a navy until post WW2 should it happen. They are better off to use their new diplomatic skills to get free trade into a governing body off all allies and hopefully the other great countries.
Yup, we bought a number of battleships, but only part of them were converted, the rest are being retrofitted and modernized I think. As for conversion, I think its a best option for us as our resources are limited, so we have to be creative and think outside of box. And yeah, 1 or 2 of such converted aircraft carriers is maximum for us - one for the northern fleet and second for the pacific fleet. Obvliously Black and Baltic Fleet are not fit to aircraft carriers. Maybe in the future we could get more proper aircraft carriers for potential 5th Soviet Fleet - that is Indian Ocean fleet, if we would be able to secure an ice-free port in Persia for example.
We comrade, about the statement that USSR doesnt need navy, you have a very good fresh example of China, and what the Brits have done to them using their complete naval domination. Yeah, in the past I will be honest that I was thinking about proposing an initiative being basically Soviet version of infamous Plan Z, but I quickly came to realisation that it would be not feasible and complete waste of resources. So the answer and the future of our navy in my opinion would be a balanced approach or navy focused on active-defence, meaning focusing on submarines, destroyers etc. instead of battleships. But such navy must also have an offensive potential meaning a decent number of surface ships such as a few modern battleship and battlecruisers with 1 or 2 smaller aircraft carriers. Also as for diplomacy, its good to have good relations, but the western imperialist and capitalist regimes would understand only hard military power. British invasion of Shanghai is a very good example of this, as Chinese options of response in this case are very limited without navy. In theory they may fight the Brits in India, but in reality doing it via Himalayas is impossible, while the Brits, using the Royal Navy, could lay waste across whole Chinese coast without any problem.
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Yes exactly, we should should auxiliary carriers will do wonders for our navy and the use of aircrafts will plug up any holes in our navy, both offensively in bombing runs against coastal fortifications and other ships and then defensively in doing reconnaissance and helping our ships figure out their positions and our land forces in helping in the defence of amphibious assaults.
Also, I think it should be partial conversion, both as a way to save money and a way to have better defensive capabilities on the ships themselves.
I think we should consider the carriers from around this time like the Hosho & the USS Langley (the USS Langley is actually incredibly important to this arguement because it was a ship that was converted to a carrier.)
Japanese aircraft carrier Hōshō - Wikipedia
USS Langley (CV-1) - Wikipedia
I don't think it's ASB to see the value in Aircraft carriers considering that the Japanese used them during their involvement in WW1, when the Japanese carrier Wakamiya attacked the Austria-Hungarian cruiser Kaiserin Elisabeth and the German gunboat Jaguar in the seige of Tsingtao.
Here's a report about it from the British who fought beside them:
"Daily reconnaissances, weather permitting, were made by the Japanese seaplanes, working from the seaplane mother ship. They continued to bring valuable information throughout the siege. The mother ship was fitted with a couple of derricks for hoisting them in and out. During these reconnaissances they were constantly fired at by the German guns mostly with shrapnel, but were never hit. The Japanese airmen usually carried bombs for dropping on the enemy positions."
- Report by Lieut. Commanders G.S.F. Nash and G. Gipps, HMS Triumph, 18 November 1914.
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So let's be honest, what will happen if the brits invade the USSR? They'll get their asses handed to them. Anything in range of Soviet airpower is already ready to get wrecked (eventually). So the key thing that British fleet can do is trade interdiction. And sure, that would hurt, hence the USSR should push for an agreement on free uninterrupted trade.
Agreed
I would agree
I'm not so sure. The Germans were pretty succesful with their trade interdiction by submarine.
Unless we get closer to OTL, there is no reason for them to be that atagonistic.
I did not know that, thanks. That makes it more likely indeed.
Yes, they would choke completely Soviet trade with outside world. Blocking export and import would really hurt our economy as we are much more connected to OTL. With knowing this and allowing it to happen in the future anyway is a completely wasteful in my opinion.
Well, western imperialist once tried to destroy us, they will do it with great pleasure in the future. They will never allow for us to be strong enough to challenge them. Sooner or later they find a reason for theirs holy crusade against USSR, mark my words.
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We are, but, and it's a but sir Mix-a-lot would be proud of, aren't we using rail to trade more? Germany, France, Sweden, China are all only a short distance or a train ride away. There isn't much the Royal Navy can do to railroads.
Yes, the volume transported by rail is high, but most of the trade is done via sea, as the transport by sea is simply cheaper, more cost-effective and energy efficient.
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Sea and rivers, with most river based trade coming either from internal trade, but largely also overseas. Also our rail network is only connecting some larger dots known as major cities for the most part still:
I'm gonna ignore the whole military stuff since I'm not that familiar with them so I'm gonna be focusing on civilian side of ideas.
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So here's a few of the ideas I was thinking that, after the alt-WW2, we create a sort of mega mall that's similar to Mall of America, of course with our supervision on how it's run and introduce our version of Dungeon and Dragons and other table top board games as it'll keep our population entertained and as a way of escapism from the alt-Cold War.
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So here's a few of the ideas I was thinking that, after the alt-WW2, we create a sort of mega mall that's similar to Mall of America, of course with our supervision on how it's run and introduce our version of Dungeon and Dragons and other table top board games as it'll keep our population entertained and as a way of escapism from the alt-Cold War.