Kara Mustafa took a few wrong turns and ended up in Warszawa (Varşova?) instead of Vienna
Here is a quick (Under 20 minutes) map I made... of a cursed Ottoman Empire.
Map Thread XXI
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I thought on expanding the writeup a but but I wanted to get this map done as soon as possible since I was working on it for a month.
Well, it depends on how Russia is faring and whether its eastward expansion still occurs ala OTL or whether Russia's eastward expansion is disrupted by a stronger Poland-Lithuania, even if it appears that Russia in the map developed more-or-less as per OTL.
I specifically had Russia stop exploring around Kamchatka for this reason. As far as they're concerned, Kamchatka is cold and barren and not worth anything, nothing lies further beyond, and they already have their port on the west Atlantic from which to trade with China (although they sure would like a better one, that's not going to come from going further east)
Hmm... I feel as though realistically Russian interest in Kamchatka would only be boosted. Access to the Far East is a far more valuable commodity ITTL, and owning Kamchatka would only add to that. IOTL to my knowledge the exploration/settlement was not really motivated by access to the Americas, and ITTL there's nothing that makes it less attractive. If anything, I'd think there would be some mild interest in it to 1) see just how far east the world island goes, and 2) the possibility of using it as a launching point for a circum-polar route.
It's all a bit handwavy. But hey, it's just a small little scenario, at least you have some justification.
oh it's extremely handwavy, not going to lie.
At least it's better than my original scenario, where the Old world doesn't discover the new world until astronauts go up and look down thinking "hey what's that?"
Here is a map I made of the Middle East in a World where the Cold War went Nuclear.
Lore: In this world Cold War went Nuclear and plunged the world into a nuclear winter that lasted for two hundred years, resetting human civilization to Late Medieval Levels of Technology. This event is known as the Kiyamat(Apocalypse in Islam) in what was once the middle east which is where this map is focused at. Worldwide trade collapsed and deserts expanded and snowstorms ravaged the land. Billions died and demographics shifted. Literacy practically disappeared. It was not unlike the Bronze age collapse.
Currently, the largest state is Usari Siyara(Syrian USSR) which was once a backwater post-colonial tall man regime however during the last 200 years, it has become a civilization-defining empire similar to Rome. Its lands extend from Tunisia to Mesopotamia and From Sudan to Armenia. It speaks a Turko-Russo-Syrian Arabic hybrid language called Siyarish. Usari Siyara leads the region on technology with cities that have luxuries not seen anywhere else such as proper waste disposal and somewhat scientific universities that are not places where people reiterate already known things but actually tried to conduct science. The ascension of Usari Siyara ha saw the spread of the Baathist sect of Marxist religion across the Middle East.
Another Great Nation is Hurumuzi Thallasocracy. Although not as great as Usari Siyara, Hurumuz is the closest thing to a democracy in the region(if you squint) Hurumuzites are a people born from a mixing of Persian, Arabic and Baluchi settlers that arrived on the Hormuz Island. Once a barren land, the Island is now Home to the Second Largest city in the world and is the birthplace of Hurumuzi Pantheon, a strangely polytheistic religion that evolved from the Hormuz Island Zar Cult. Hurumuzites speak a constructed language invented to destroy boundaries between its founding peoples and do not resemble any of the neighbouring languages. There are rumours amongst their rivals that some Hurumuzi city states have discovered a sea road to a new continent filled with riches, strange rabbit antelope hybrids with pouches and people with skin like sour milk.
Not all is nice and dandy for the Hurumuz however. To their North is the Great Mahdist Hegemon. A Strange Theocracy with its own, new brand of Islam and an unparalelled thirst for blood. Mahdist Blight as it is called elsewhere has rapidly extended in the last 50 or so years, starting a wave of barbarian migrations across central lands as well as to East Asia as a side effect of their conquest. Mahdists are Believers of a militant form of Zikrism, a real, small sect that exists on Baluchestan today. In this timeline a subsect of this faith have fueled the peoples of the region with fervor and ambition for more and started an invasion not unlike that of early Islamic Caliphates. Mahdist state has however started to decay and there does not seem to be an Abbasid revolution in the making that might save it.
Lore: In this world Cold War went Nuclear and plunged the world into a nuclear winter that lasted for two hundred years, resetting human civilization to Late Medieval Levels of Technology. This event is known as the Kiyamat(Apocalypse in Islam) in what was once the middle east which is where this map is focused at. Worldwide trade collapsed and deserts expanded and snowstorms ravaged the land. Billions died and demographics shifted. Literacy practically disappeared. It was not unlike the Bronze age collapse.
Currently, the largest state is Usari Siyara(Syrian USSR) which was once a backwater post-colonial tall man regime however during the last 200 years, it has become a civilization-defining empire similar to Rome. Its lands extend from Tunisia to Mesopotamia and From Sudan to Armenia. It speaks a Turko-Russo-Syrian Arabic hybrid language called Siyarish. Usari Siyara leads the region on technology with cities that have luxuries not seen anywhere else such as proper waste disposal and somewhat scientific universities that are not places where people reiterate already known things but actually tried to conduct science. The ascension of Usari Siyara ha saw the spread of the Baathist sect of Marxist religion across the Middle East.
Another Great Nation is Hurumuzi Thallasocracy. Although not as great as Usari Siyara, Hurumuz is the closest thing to a democracy in the region(if you squint) Hurumuzites are a people born from a mixing of Persian, Arabic and Baluchi settlers that arrived on the Hormuz Island. Once a barren land, the Island is now Home to the Second Largest city in the world and is the birthplace of Hurumuzi Pantheon, a strangely polytheistic religion that evolved from the Hormuz Island Zar Cult. Hurumuzites speak a constructed language invented to destroy boundaries between its founding peoples and do not resemble any of the neighbouring languages. There are rumours amongst their rivals that some Hurumuzi city states have discovered a sea road to a new continent filled with riches, strange rabbit antelope hybrids with pouches and people with skin like sour milk.
Not all is nice and dandy for the Hurumuz however. To their North is the Great Mahdist Hegemon. A Strange Theocracy with its own, new brand of Islam and an unparalelled thirst for blood. Mahdist Blight as it is called elsewhere has rapidly extended in the last 50 or so years, starting a wave of barbarian migrations across central lands as well as to East Asia as a side effect of their conquest. Mahdists are Believers of a militant form of Zikrism, a real, small sect that exists on Baluchestan today. In this timeline a subsect of this faith have fueled the peoples of the region with fervor and ambition for more and started an invasion not unlike that of early Islamic Caliphates. Mahdist state has however started to decay and there does not seem to be an Abbasid revolution in the making that might save it.
Thanks. Some people believe Japan would end up poorer in a Nationalist China TL, but I believe increased trade with neighbors (because of Japan apologizing like Germany) could make up for reduced/diluted US investment.
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I'll be honest, my initial thought was that this was an ASB timeline where the Americas don't exist and the Atlantic and Pacific are just one large continuous ocean. That being said I find the idea of a much later discovery of the Americas to be a lot more interesting due to how original it sounds.
Also I realize that this scenario would be even more outlandish but I can't help but find that idea to be funny. I do wonder how modern civilization would react to discovering two giant uncontacted continents.
Depends how it happens. Japan was built up a lot due to the Cold War situation and America wanting a strong bulwark vs Communist China. If victorious Nationalist China leans towards Soviet Union or forming its own bloc, Korea may be pressured into "Finlandization" and will not be so close to Japan. Of course, if China moves away from the US, then the US will pump up Japan as in OTL. If China stays buddies with the US, then there's not much incentive for funding from the US, but you will likely have slower, steadier growth that will not crash like Japan IOTL. The bubble that crashed Japan so much will not happen.
The whole apology/reconciliation concept requires China having an incentive for cooperating with Japan. Germany did the apology stuff and was able to reconcile with France / Europe because France wanted to create a new pan-European bloc and prevent Germany from being the "leader" of such a group. China could create a new Pan-Asian bloc including Korea and Japan, but at the same time it would be very China-centric. Such a bloc could keep Japan poorer in the long term.
It would be interesting for indigenous American societies to have a few more centuries to themselves before the upheavals of European contact. While one might assume that this scenario would be an even faster repeat of OTL thanks to the wider technology gap, the mindset of these explorers could be very different from the conquistadores and their perception of the Americas as a new front of the reconquista. Despite TTL's Europe seeming relatively familiar based on the map, it may be very different under the surface thanks to different patterns of immigration and socioeconomic development. Similarly, the native states would be different from the well-known groups like the Aztecs and Incas, and there may be powerful cultures outside of the Mesoamerican and Andean regions that would change the game as well.
If Russia is so powerful why has she not finished the conquest of Siberia?
Or, has she, discovered Alaska and the Americas, kept it quiet whilst she takes advantage of it and THAT, not the silk road, is the reason she is so rich
Honestly, I'll love to see this scenario, I imagine that people would be amazed by the fact that the New frontier is not the space but down to earth
I think the best way to explain is that Europeans just don't have the same drive to explore as they did OTL. Vasco da Gama made it to India by sea, the Russians made it the other side of the continent by land and got a route to China, why bother searching for more? In hindsight, having the Europeans fully explore the coastline of Australia may have been a mistake on my part.
Yeah, I'll admit it's extremely handwavey but eh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Now there’s an idea. Is it even possible for the Americas to be first discovered by spaceflight? Are the technologies for ocean voyages and space flight sufficiently independent that, supporting one and ignoring the other, the first knowledge the Old World gets of them is from photographs down from an unmanned probe?
It looks like a nice scifi scenario, like imagine a planet where two civilisations reach high tech on two differents and separate continents to finally discover each other in the atomic age, and the politicals repercussions of such a discovery...
Can make a fun star trek or stargate episode
Crazymachines
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Hopefully this Byzantine scenario is more interesting than the usual wank.
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In the place of the Republic of Azerbaijan and Iranian Azerbaijan, is that a surviving Caucasian Albania/Arran/Atropatene?
Crazymachines
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the Azerbaijan area is under the rule of a former Iranian governor who has broken away from the crumbling imperial central government
Is Bohemia named Serbia here because of some relation to the Sorbs and whatever they were named after? I had first assumed that it was just alternative migrations, but then I noticed you still had South Slavs in the Balkans.
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