Are there any Hashimites left that could be set back on the throne as Protectors of Mecca and Medina? Otherwise what about the Saud's being brought in as the Official Protectors of the Cities?
The Footprint of Mussolini - TL
Are there any Hashimites left that could be set back on the throne as Protectors of Mecca and Medina? Otherwise what about the Saud's being brought in as the Official Protectors of the Cities?
Considering that everyone and their dog knows by this point the aid, both unofficial AND official that the Saudi have been giving by years to the UAR and Aflaq and Nasser?
If anything i doubt that none of the powers wants to legitimize any claim of the Saudi to those two cities post war as punishment. Given that the Turks already hold the custody of the Temple of the Rock in Jerusalem as the recognized Muslim Guardians, odds are that Mussolini may allow the Turks to become the Custodians of the "Three Holy Sites of the Islam" as a pointed middle finger to Saud and also as a potential excuse for the Turks later to deal with them.
I still think the West will draw a line at the Turks getting that much potential influence. If the Saudi's lose the holy cities might a new state be made to house them to keep a major power or bloc from exploiting their prestige?
One possibility is that this army is meant to 'threaten' Mecca. The Saudis would pull their troops out of the Israelii front to protect Mecca, not just for any personal passion, but the fact that their greatest prestige comes from being the "Custodians of the Two Holy Mosques." Too lose even one without fighting with everything could unravel their support.
So it could weaken the Arab forces drawing the Saudi forces away from Israel into a fight of the RA's choosing. And if Aflaq does not let the Saudi forces withdraw to defend Mecca? Faced with losing mecca and possibly their kingdom the coup I have been speculating on might happen seeing the Saudi's betray Aflaq.
One possibility is that this army is meant to 'threaten' Mecca. The Saudis would pull their troops out of the Israelii front to protect Mecca, not just for any personal passion, but the fact that their greatest prestige comes from being the "Custodians of the Two Holy Mosques." Too lose even one without fighting with everything could unravel their support.
So it could weaken the Arab forces drawing the Saudi forces away from Israel into a fight of the RA's choosing. And if Aflaq does not let the Saudi forces withdraw to defend Mecca? Faced with losing mecca and possibly their kingdom the coup I have been speculating on might happen seeing the Saudi's betray Aflaq.
The point its that outside of the Turks, EVERYONE else lacks the historical and cultural right in a sense to claim custodianship of those two cities.
The Turks ALREADY saw that they have gained a LOT more prestige and an international voice for becoming the lead of a Moderate, Secular and Peaceful Islam , in counter to the flagrantly racist Arab World. The Saudi already have been shown that they are rather willing to screw the Roman Alliance and the Western Powers, for not talk of being in cahoots with the hated Communists.
There its also the obvious issue of the Persian Gulf Petroleum. While we aren't seeing OPEC level stunts now, as things are now, several figures in London, Paris, Italy and Istambul are now seeing and calculating that unless they destroy the geopolitical power of the current UAR or Pro-UAR regimes in the Persian Gulf , that will come to bite the rest of the world in the collective arse in a few years more.
For Mussolini and many others, the UAR is a boil that has to be lanced and cauterized NOW, specially if i suspect that Aflaq will unleash either Biological or Chemical weapons as part of his Pan-Arab insanity. If he does that, the phrase that will come to Mussolini's mind its an historical one, with a foreboding promise......
Carthago Delenda Est......
Appealing to the mercy and humanity of facsists has historically been a poor plan.
A very interesting chapter. Greece is on track to regained much of what it lost, but has sacrificed the morale and integrity of her troops for it. The Arabs are much more potent than I had expected, but they are still clearly going to fall to superior European training and materiel eventually.
Incidentally, what kinds of materiel are currently in use? Are the British flying mostly Vampires, Hawks or Hunters (be they under different names in this timeline or not)? Or is their current FAA plane something of a different design entirely? What do the planes the Italians are flying look like? Are they importing jet engines from Britain or the US or are they making their own? Have they already transitioned to postwar infantry weapons? Has anyone deployed armour in this war yet?
Incidentally, what kinds of materiel are currently in use? Are the British flying mostly Vampires, Hawks or Hunters (be they under different names in this timeline or not)? Or is their current FAA plane something of a different design entirely? What do the planes the Italians are flying look like? Are they importing jet engines from Britain or the US or are they making their own? Have they already transitioned to postwar infantry weapons? Has anyone deployed armour in this war yet?
Not really, the Greeks still have lots of territory they lost on the mainland and every other Aegean island they had before World War II remains in Turkish hands. They are paying a high price in blood and honor to get back a portion of what was taken from them; fighting for the countries that are de facto occupying much of their country.
Though I am thinking this will bite the RA, with disaffected Greek veterans of this war forming the backbone of the next phase of Greek resistance. We might see a number of them end up on Cyprus as part of antiRA militias there.
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Paradoxally, the Egyptian front may prove to be the least nasty of the entire conflict. I hope that Sadat or else may decide to coup Nasser in time - however it is clear that Egypt's price will be at least Alexandria and whoever will agree over that would be in a lot of trouble. Leaving the UAR won't be an issue and renouncing over the Suez neither, but Alexandria...
Of course the Syrian front will be the more bloodly one. But I guess from now on Turkey and Israel will be great buddies TTL after this war.
And Brazil, well now would be in the European black list. Especially Vargas. I bet Argentina and the Spanish South Americans - especially local caudillos or authoritarian presidents are willing to court Rome after the Brazilian veto in the UN. Decolonization may be a thing, but Brazil nonetheless betrayed the West who gave such diplomatic power...
Of course the Syrian front will be the more bloodly one. But I guess from now on Turkey and Israel will be great buddies TTL after this war.
And Brazil, well now would be in the European black list. Especially Vargas. I bet Argentina and the Spanish South Americans - especially local caudillos or authoritarian presidents are willing to court Rome after the Brazilian veto in the UN. Decolonization may be a thing, but Brazil nonetheless betrayed the West who gave such diplomatic power...
The Morocco front will be interesting. A reunion war for Spain and some of her former colonies.
This isn’t related to the current topic of discussion but is the Fucile Armaguerra Mod. 39 widely used by the Italian Army ITTL?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fucile_Armaguerra_Mod._39
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fucile_Armaguerra_Mod._39
For Franco is the chance of the life to make his country a well respected power again. We'll see if Spain will catch it or not.
Are we going to see the battle-hardened troops of the Spanish Army of Africa join Mussolini in North Africa?
Franco has probably so much doing in Morocco that Egypt is dealt before he has captured Morocco. And I doubt that Franco is sending troops to Middle East when he is not rally fan of Jews if then Mussolini doesn't friendly remind Franco about Pavelic's fate.
Nonsense the GLORIOUS EJÉRCITO DE TIERRA shall melt the Moroccan resistance such as it is like a flamethrower through butter.To suggest anything less is treason. LONG LIVE SPAIN!!!
Dolan
Banned
Mussolini seems to crazy enough to try strategy that involves taking Mecca and look at the Arab World practically caught with their pants down, but should be pragmatic enough to use exclusively Turkish Troops (and Muslim Libyans) to do the deed to avoid fallouts.
Heck, Turks taking Mecca and Medina and proclaiming descendant/claimant of Ottoman Sultan as Caliph (that is religious-only office fully under their thumb), might start causing desertions in The Arab Camp.
The Italian and other non muslim troops of the RA would be content to just "liberating" the oil rich regions.
It will all depend on how Franco's section of the Alliance does in Morocco. And his goals there will play a part in that and the kind of peace taking shape and as result how large the force he will need to keep invested.
Assuming he wins the war in good time and with his forces not mangled; I expect he will send forces to the other theaters. Again how much a role they would play would depend on the military situation for Franco and the situation in the UAR at the time. It could be everything from a Spain & Friends Division on the frontlines, to troops being used to fill occupation duty freeing up Italian troops for the front.
Because I do not think Franco will want to weasel out of his commitments. He may be Antisemitic but he is also ambitious. He expected Spain to be Italy's Number 2 in the the RA, but they have been outshined by Turkey at every turn. This is Franco's big chance to build his cred to Mussolini and the RA at large. His chance to declare to allies and the world at large, that Spain has returned to the ranks of great powers under his leadership. And I think that goal will fill his eyes enough to let him swallow helping Jewish people.
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Bookmark1995
Banned
If you're an Islamic nation that rules over Mecca and Medina, and your territory falls to the armies of Fascists (the modern day crusaders) that is a moral blow that is almost impossible to recover from.
Which is why I can picture Mussolini doing it just because he would love nothing more to stick it to the madmen running the Middle East.
Dolan
Banned
Nah, there are Turks and they won't be seen as Crusaders of any sort.
They are merely the "Old Ottoman Caliphate" reasserting their claim and guardianship of Islamic Holy Sites, just like what they've already done within Israel borders.
While the ships could be crewed with Italians, the later won't step out of coastal areas as the land invasion of the Holy Cities mustbe conducted pretty much exclusively by Turkish, Libyan, and Berber Muslims if they wanted to not poking on religious issue too much.
Hell, I imagine a certain young Libyan Colonel may ended up being trusted Italian representative at Mecca, while certain young Turkish Cleric ended up being Keeper of the Masjid-il-Haraam.