Nixon usurping Reagan for the 1980 nomination could be an amazing ironic hilarity tbh....
Blue Skies in Camelot: An Alternate 60's and Beyond
- Thread starter President_Lincoln
- Start date
Nixon usurping Reagan for the 1980 nomination could be an amazing ironic hilarity tbh....
I would actually prefer Nixon winning in 1980 over Reagan, and in the event that he is the incumbent in 1980, beating Mo Udall. It would add some realism and prevent this TL from jumping the shark and turning into a Democratic Party wank. I emphasize this now because I fear that someone like Udall would not realistically be able to deal with the problems of this TL's late 1970s, especially given the large GOP majorities in Congress.
Last edited:
So, Bush narrowly wins a second term and the GOP go to certain defeat and collapse by....RFK, in 1980?
Just a random fact about Yuri Andropov - I was reading some material about environmental protection in the Soviet Union. Which, obviously, is something to be desired with things like discharging pollutants into rivers along with accidents but what I found interesting was the fact Andropov took environmental protection seriously to reduce pollution along with punishing polluters.
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP86T00591R000300310003-5.pdf
Another area of great interest to me is the pretty extreme anti-religious campaign by Nikita Khruschev while he was in power, this later died down when Brezhnev toned down the campaign. I doubt Andropov would have reduced the degree of Khruschev's radicalism so either Orthodoxy declines considerably or the religion becomes a sort of soft resistance among the population.
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP86T00591R000300310003-5.pdf
Another area of great interest to me is the pretty extreme anti-religious campaign by Nikita Khruschev while he was in power, this later died down when Brezhnev toned down the campaign. I doubt Andropov would have reduced the degree of Khruschev's radicalism so either Orthodoxy declines considerably or the religion becomes a sort of soft resistance among the population.
Last edited:
Wow I had no idea. Interesting to know that even the Soviet Union took environmental protection seriously.
The CIA analysis suggests that Andropov regarded it as going hand in hand with improving the overall Soviet economy, though Andropov's emphasis was carried on by Chernenko for his short time in power and pledged to reduce emissions by over 25% towards 1993. East Germany had the worst record of any European country - presumably due to their exploitation of resources via mining operations.
Pretty sure I've read somewhere Khruschev saw nature reserves as being a hindrance to economic development, but I can't remember where I saw that.
Last edited:
I'd hope it becomes the latter, as it will help Russia in Democractic transition if the Orthodox church is not attached to the hip of the Russian State like OTL
Hopefully Boris Yeltsin plays no meaningful part whatsoever in this timeline. Also hoping for Gorbachev's New Union to become a reality
Interesting bits on Andropov. Hope Yeltsin and Putin don't come to power, even if the USSR survives somehow. Gorbachev, hope if he does come to power, his reforms play out the right way, or he at least handles them better.
I like that. But in all seriousness Gorbachev did do lots to help the Soviet Union and developed a good relationship with President Ronald Reagan and this allowed them to sign the INF Treaty.
Last edited:
On the other hand I would think it is safe to say he is vilified by Russians. I remember an American analyst was visiting Moscow in 1993 and started talking to the baggage lady at the airport. Of course, given the political situation at the time, the conversation shifted to Russian politics and he asked her about Gorbachev - with her steel tongue she replied that Gorbachev should be hung from a lamppost.
Last edited:
Yes it's sad that someone who helped end the Cold War has been dismissed or outright forgotten by history.
Oddly enough he is one of the last Cold War leaders left. A Russian user on Reddit stated that his biggest contribution was peacefully ending the union without the sort of bloodshed that could have accompanied it - aside from issues regarding the Donbass, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, the territorial disputes between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Context is important though, Gorbachev left office and everything immediately became worse for most Russians aside from the oligarchs or crimelords. The economic shock therapy program was a disaster in almost every way and Russia was left in a state of economic disrepair by the time Yeltsin left office.
Americans, I assume, blush about Gorbachev/Yeltsin but imagine going from a superpower competing with the United States for global hegemony to begging for food aid from the European Union and America. It wasn't just Russia. Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia all had the same experience with corruption and embezzlement.
Last edited:
If I remember correctly (could be wrong), the reason why Gorbachev took over after the stop-gap of Chernenko was because of how close he was to Andropov. I think they also holidayed together in the Caucasus on occasion too. So, assuming Andropov still meets him, I strongly suspect Gorby may well end up in the General Secretary seat regardless; especially if Andropov dies and makes his preference for him absolutely clear along with Gromyko still putting his word in.
The fact Grishin pulled Chernenko to cast his vote when he was dying undoubtedly harmed his standing against Gorby. I'm unsure of Grigory Romanov's qualities though.
If it came down to Gorbachev or a Soviet celebrity the party room would probably go for the party man in my opinion - Gorby had been a party functionary for awhile and he didn't just emerge out of nowhere.
Last edited: