Weekly Flag Challenge: Discussion & Entries

[Larus Marinus]

Here's my entry...Relatively early for once.

The Peloponnese Empire
"Once Constantinople fell to the Bulgarian armies, no-one had expected the Latin Empire to survive. It had already declined considerably by the time the Latin Emperor fled Constantinople, with most of its already meagre possessions lost to the Empire of Nicaea and the Despotate of Epirus in the years before.

The Latin Empire would live on, however, as the Emperor escaped to Mystras, then the capital of the Principality of Achaea, one of the last bastions of Latin power in Greece. Here the Empire would not only live on, but prosper for quite some time. At its height, this new "Peloponnese Empire" encompassed the Peloponnese itself, as well as the Duchy of Athens and the isles of Cephallonia, Negroponte, Naxos and Crete."

Untextured version

 

[The Professor]

Ah, finally something that I won't have to do so much research on.

Except a flag soon.

I was going to make it quite restrictive by outlining what the successor and competitor states were but I thought what the hey let's leave it massively open to get a whole range of ideas

Here's my entry...Relatively early for once.

The Pelopennese Empire
"Once Constantinople fell to the Bulgarian armies, no-one had expected the Latin Empire to survive. It had already declined considerably by the time the Latin Emperor fled Constantinople, with most of its already meagre possessions lost to the Empire of Nicaea and the Despotate of Epirus in the years before.

The Latin Empire would live on, however, as the Emperor escaped to Mystras, then the capital of the Principality of Achaea, one of the last bastions of Latin power in Greece. Here the Empire would not only live on, but prosper for quite some time. At its height, this new "Pelopennese Empire" encompassed the Pelopennese itself, as well as the Duchy of Athens and the isles of Cephallonia, Negroponte, Naxos and Crete."

Untextured version

Nice (and scuppering my design before it's fully formed ).
You might want to correct the spelling to "Peloponnese" though . I blame the name "Penelope" for confusing thousands of us!

 

[Larus Marinus]

Nice (and scuppering my design before it's fully formed ).
You might want to correct the spelling to "Peloponnese" though . I blame the name "Penelope" for confusing thousands of us!

Ah thanks for catching that. Fixed it.

Were you going for an Achaea-based design as well? Seemed like the only part of the Latin Empire except the Duchy of Athens that had any chance of long-term survival, so that one seemed like the best bet.

Incidentally, your challenge for #62 was actually one of my challenge ideas for #61 as well.

 

[jkarr]

I was going to make it quite restrictive by outlining what the successor and competitor states were but I thought what the hey let's leave it massively open to get a whole range of ideas

can we have a sucessor state thats not in the aegean=?...like say italy, med. isles and so on or does it have to be within the original confines of the byzantine empire?

also what timeframe was the bulgarian invasion='

 

[Future8]

Question: So if Rhomania survived only 3 centuries, it ended in about 700? That means the empire, before it ended, looked like the following image? And those are the territories we have to choose for our successor state?

 

[False Dmitri]

Question: So if Rhomania survived only 3 centuries, it ended in about 700? That means the empire, before it ended, looked like the following image? And those are the territories we have to choose for our successor state?

No, the Latin Empire has fallen. The one established after the Fourth Crusade, so three centuries gives you a fall date of c. 1500. It is up to us whether those three centuries are to have been marked by decline and weakness (as in Kuld's), or strength and growth.

This means a second challenge in a row that involves lots of medieval Italians. I'll try to actually join this one; the first entry was not quite as disheartening as in the last challenge!

 

[Future8]

No, the Latin Empire has fallen.

Okay... thanks for clearing that up. I just put in Rhomania in Wikipedia and the Byzantine Empire came up.

 

[The Professor]

Ah thanks for catching that. Fixed it.

Were you going for an Achaea-based design as well? Seemed like the only part of the Latin Empire except the Duchy of Athens that had any chance of long-term survival, so that one seemed like the best bet.

Incidentally, your challenge for #62 was actually one of my challenge ideas for #61 as well.

Had a surviving Latin Empire in my head for a while and your challenge reminded me .
I've actually got a couple of successors (and scenarios!) in mind it was just your design is close to something I was going to do - luckily I can change it round a bit.

can we have a sucessor state thats not in the aegean=?...like say italy, med. isles and so on or does it have to be within the original confines of the byzantine empire?

also what timeframe was the bulgarian invasion='

Successors don't have to be exclusive to the Aegean they just need a reasonable connection to the previous Latin Empire. Even OTL Cilicia and Cyprus were technically vassals of the LRE.

It doesn't have to be a Bulgarian Invasion per se but Constantinople is taken by them [and not Ottomans!] before 1504 (1204 + ~300y) and is considered the end of this Latin Empire much how 1204 is considered the end of the "1st Greek Roman Empire"

Okay... thanks for clearing that up. I just put in Rhomania in Wikipedia and the Byzantine Empire came up.

I was thinking of making it clearer that R(h)omania is what contemporaries called the East Roman Empire with parts labelled Latin and Greek following the 4th Crusade, but I assumed AH.com made it unnecessary

No, the Latin Empire has fallen. The one established after the Fourth Crusade, so three centuries gives you a fall date of c. 1500. It is up to us whether those three centuries are to have been marked by decline and weakness (as in Kuld's), or strength and growth.

This means a second challenge in a row that involves lots of medieval Italians. I'll try to actually join this one; the first entry was not quite as disheartening as in the last challenge!

Thanks for clearing that up so well - and hopefully you'll enter this one .

 

[Future8]

The Empire of Mount Athos​

​

After the fall of Constantinople to the Bulgarians, the Emperor of the Latin Empire fled to Mount Athos, where he established a successor state to the Latin Empire. Soon after, the Emperor takes back Halkidiki from the Bulgarians.

The Empire of Mount Athos, as it is called, does quite well. The Ottomans at first try to conquer it, but the Empire keeps them out of Halkidiki. They eventually establish good relations.

The fall of the Empire of Mount Athos comes in 1913. During the First Balkan War, the Empire of Mount Athos teams up with the Ottoman Empire in hopes of getting more land around Halkidiki. However, when they loose, the Greeks take over Halkidiki, and the Empire falls after 400 years.

The Flag of the Empire of Mount Athos is official. The 5 crosses come from the flag of the Latin Empire, of which they are a successor, and Mount Athos is shown at the bottom. The gold stripe in the fly represents prosperity. This stripe is special, because every ten years the Empire survives, a half millimeter is added to the stripe, making the flag different from any other flag at the time.​

 

[False Dmitri]

Well, this challenge has inspired a bunch of maps from me... still no flag yet.

 

[Tom Thumb]

The Empire of Crete:

Following the collapse of The Latin Empire the monarchy moves to Crete an claims to be the new Rome. The empire quickly expands taking the southern. Aegean Islands and the Peloponnese . The nation then faces what was called the great downfall which led to the near collapse of the nation but is able to reclaim it's land and then some after wwii. The n AAA tion survives to this day and is a fairly wealthy nation. The monarchy though has lost almost all power and is in most ways a figure head. Here is a gif map.
Http://makeagif.com/i/QjH_an

Flag:

 

[Future8]

Well, this challenge has inspired a bunch of maps from me... still no flag yet.

(fillerz)

 

[False Dmitri]

Map of my scenario:

The Republic of Smyrna
La Repubblica di Smirne

Smyrna has developed into a powerful maritime republic with a mixed population: the ruling class is a mix of Venetians, Genoese, Franco-Cypriot emigree nobles, and Hospitallers largely from France and Germany; while The People are a mix of Turks, Greeks, Jews, and a few Armenians.

The Kingdom of Cilicia had expelled the Latins within its borders in the 15th century, then conquered Cyprus and did the same. This was a major factor behind Smyrna's rise. Most of the exiled aristocrats, with their wealth and connections, ended up in Smyrna and helped make it the main commercial center of western Anatolia. The merchant-aristocrats were given wide autonomy by the Latin Empire, and they were well poised to continue as a republic when the empire fell apart.

At this moment, fifty years after the fall of the Latin Empire, Smyrna is the most powerful Latin remnant. Chios, Lesbos, and the Dodecanese were Smyrnan vassal states from the beginning, and the larger duchies of Naxos and Candia (Crete), plus the city of Monemvasia, were added in the following years.

The next strongest surviving Latin remnant is Achaea, which maintains a precarious neutrality by playing the main trading powers (Bulgaria, Venice, and Smyrna) off one another. Milas, seen on the map, is one of the less important Turkish states.

Smyrna's flag is known in all the ports of the eastern Mediterranean. Known as the Cross of Saint Polycarp, it ultimately takes its design from the traditional portrayal of the republic's patron saint in eastern icons. The great flag of state, shown here, combines this with crosses representing Smyrna's forebears, to which Smyrna claims to be the legitimate heir: the Latin Empire, the Hospitallers, and Jerusalem, the last of which is rendered red to make it more visible.

 

[Symphorien]

The Principality of Theodoro

The Principality was formed after the Fourth Crusade out of parts of the Byzantine crimean lands. Its population was a mixture of Greeks, Crimean Goths, Alans, Bulgars, Kypchaks and other nations, which confessed Orthodox Christianity. The principality's official language was Greek. The territory was initially under the control of Trebizond and Theodore II Gabras, a scion of the noble Gabras family was appointed as the governor. He quickly became de facto independent.

In 1327, when the Latin Empire conquered Trezibond, the Gabras family saw which way the wind was blowing, and offered their loyalty to Constantinople. This was in fact an extremely wise move, as with the backing of the Empire, Theodoros had more leverage with their neighbors, taking back a portion of genoese ports to their south, and significantly reducing their annual tribute to the crimeans to the north.

After the fall of Constantinople, the Gabras family continued on, now independant, but more cautious. Nevertheless, they are proud, and profress themselves the heritors of both the Latin Empire, and the Eastern Roman Empire before that.

The black and white stripes are a variation on the flag of Trezibond, while the red and gold detailing comes from the Latin flag along with the small crosses. The gothic "T" is a traditional symbol of Theodoro, and can been found incorporatied in a number of their seals.

 

[The Professor]

And my entry so far:

The loss of Constantinople was the final blow to the Latin Empire's ruling dynasty in its century decline.
The marriage of Emperor Henry VI de Flanders to Queen Isabella of Thessalonica had seemed to stem the tide against the Bulgarians following the loss of the Empire's Greek and Turkish vassals in Anatolia and his 3 son's marriages to the Princess of Achaea, Duchess of Athens, and Queen of Cilicia-Cyprus appeared to strengthen the family's influence but was merely setting the scene for another bad succession war.
First Henry lost his eldest son and heir Duke Amaury of Naxos - though Amaury had managed to sire 2 daughters and son Henry - leaving the aging Henry with an infant grandson as his heir.
Then his second son William, King of Thessalonica, Duke of Joanina, and Duke of Athens was captured by Laurence of Albania during a raid against Albania's borders and allegedly forced to sell his inheritance rights of the Empire before dying in an escape attempt.
And then his third son Henry, King of Cyprus, King of Cilicia, Prince of Antioch, and Count of Tripoli, became estranged over his support of the Pope-at-Salzburg.

With the fall of Constantinople and death of Henry VI, his grandson Henry VII resumed the throne only to drown a week later in shipping accident.
The Empire was thrown into turmoil as King Henry (son of William) of Thessalonica seized the crown and married his cousin Isabella; King Henry of Cyprus raised his claim to the purple as eldest son of Henry VI; while Laurence IV Tarantino, King of Sicily, King of Albania, Prince of Taranto, claimed the young Princess of Achaea as his imperial bride and thus the Empire by both marriage and bought rights.

Below is Laurence's personal banner as Latin Roman Emperor and bears the Imperial Seal [showing the LRE's role as King of Jerusalem] over the Imperial [Crusader] Cross in his House colours as per imperial tradition for heirs:

 

[Future8]

The Republic of Smyrna
La Repubblica di Smirne

And my entry so far:

Oh dear Lord, please have mercy on my flag.

 

[Cazaril]

What's up with the recent trend towards textured flags? Maybe it's just me, but I've always found them ugly and unnatural-looking. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Larus Marinus]

I am guessing people have turned to textures because the textured flags often tend to do better than untextured flags because they are better at attracting people's attention. I always include a link to an untextured version for those, like you, who dislike textured flags though.

 

[False Dmitri]

The Map Contest went through the same process; nearly all entries are textured nowadays, but that wasn't always the case.

 

[LSCatilina]

Just take a look on the Flag Thread guys, nearly all are untextured. I think it's a recurrent fashion of Weekly Challenge, hopefully vowed to vanish as his former avatars.