Weekly Flag Challenge: Discussion & Entries

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Transparent Blue, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. The Professor Pontif of the Guild

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    Good point.
    I would say descendant from the Heptarchy period, so Angle and Saxon base but allowing for Norse/Norman/other invasions, conquests, and succession.
     
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  2. Krall The Divine Chorus

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    Alright, so no Lloegyr, but an England derived from Mercia would be acceptable. Got it. :)
     
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  3. The Professor Pontif of the Guild

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    Absolutely.
     
  4. Trackah the Uchronaut

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    Kingdom of England
    Royaume d'Angleterre
    franco_anglish_flag.png

    After the Baron's War, Prince Louis of France was also crowned King of England, and upon his father, Philip II's death Louis began king of both France and England. Louis the VIII & I needed a symbol to represent his rule of England, and the leopards were still associated with the former John I. The solution was on the back of a coin minted under the reign of Edward the Confessor. To make the symbol his own though he replaced the martlets with fleur-de-lys. On the kingdom's royal standard is a quartered flag with Azure, a cross patonce or, between five fleur-de-lys or in quarters one and four for England, and Azure semy-de-lys or in quarters two and three (note: the quarters are reversed in France)
     
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  5. Xanthoc Destroyer of Canada

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    (If the inclusion of the arms on a shield with supporters is against the rules I can reupload with just the banner alone. I kinda got carried away.)

    The North Sea Empire

    Imperium Mare Septentrio

    EnglandDane.png

    The successful regency of Hakon in Norway for Canute the Great can be said to have been the true key to ensuring the strength of the North Sea Empire. With his loyal vassal deftly ensuring the loyalty of the local jarls and helping to create a steady chain of resources between the three dominions of England, Norway, and Denmark, the empire began to solidify, though many rebellions would occur throughout its history. Canute the Great would focus his reign in England, but through Hakon and later through the half-English Ulfred, his other kingdoms would fall in-line, and when Canute began to tour his territory in his later years, he found a kingdom that was "not united, but together," a phrase which would define the North Sea for many years to come. When Canute died, his sole surviving son Harthacanute would succeed all his titles, but uprisings in Denmark would require him to rally his vassals in both England and Norway to successfully pacify the unruly Danes. Truly, it was not until the crown was eventually placed on the brow of Hakon IV that the North Sea Empire was truly 'unified,' as he was the first to style himself as 'Emperor of the North Sea, King of England, of Denmark, of Norway,' dropping the traditional title 'King of some of the Swedes' used since Canute, and under him its borders reached and solidified those established by Canute the Great after many years of the Empire's gradual shrinkage; for the majority of its history, the North Sea Empire was focused in England, having to fight tooth and nail to keep its footholds in Norway and Denmark, ironic as that is. And the people within the Empire, though separated by sea, survived long and grueling wars, before finally achieving true supremacy with victory against the French and the North Swedes under Hakon. Now together, the maritime nation would then begin using its thalassocratic nature to its advantage, building many ports and encouraging enlistment of all in either civilian or military naval forces. Many a philosopher has remarked that often there are more citizens of the North Sea in its waters than on its lands, and though hyperbolic, they are nearly right, particularly in times of war or invasion."

    - History in a Second by Reinaldo Cortez
    "The arms of the North Sea Empire are derived from the ancient 'Raven Banner' of many Norse pagan lords. A black raven on white would serve to inspire images of Wodin, the most feared and powerful of their gods, king of their pantheon. Though the North Sea Empire would convert almost entirely to Christianity, the marching of its armies under the Raven became a part of its shared history, and such a disparate kingdom was constantly urged to embrace all common features by its government. Eventually, the House of Knýtlinga, without its own arms for over two centuries, despite the trends in Europe, would take a crowned black raven on white as theirs, later augmented with a border of red to represent the nature of the empire, being a united kingdom in a vast space of both earth and water. Today, the raven has become increasingly stylized, an action taken in response to the Teutonic Republic, the resulting counter-revolutionary movements emulating their obsession with simplified symbols as a means of uniting their peoples before a revolution hit them...

    ...While not supplanting the civil and state flag, the royal banner was and is flown in all three of the Federal Kingdoms that lie underneath the title of Emperor of the North Sea. The capital of London flies the royal banner exclusively, without the red and gold English saltire beneath it, alongside the state flag, as it wishes to be an embodiment of Imperial unity, despite remaining feeling in much of the country that England is the most dominant and influential kingdom, at the expense of the other two...

    ...Officially the arms are supported by a wild man, taken from the Danish, and a golden wyvern, taken from the English, with the Crown of St. Æthelwulf, created and housed in Norway, resting above it, acting a symbolic uniting of the three lands around the House of Knýtlinga. The official motto of the Knýtlingas is "Deus, Iusticia, Pax," meaning "God, Justice, Peace," a phrase taken from Canute IX as his reasons for fighting for the North Sea, despite the belief that the Glorious Coalition of the Teutonic Empire, Iberian Popular State, and the Federation of France and Italy would never be defeated. Given the North Sea Empire's miraculous victory (with aid from the Serfdom of Vinland and the Kingdom of New Lombardy) the phrase became a popular part of the Septentrian national consciousness, and the imperial family made it their official motto rather than continue to have new monarchs establish their own upon ascension."

    - The Little Book of Flags, by Javier Moreno​
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
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  6. Transparent Blue TRANSPARENT! TRANSPARENT!

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    I believe that is against the rules, since this round did not specifically ask for anything other than a flag.
    "You CANNOT enter anything other than flags and explanations. For example, you cannot add a supplementary map."
     
  7. The Professor Pontif of the Guild

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    Yeah, I didn't ask for anything else (or think to really!)
    If it had been a separate image I would have reasonably left it here but I wouldn't have included it in the poll.
    I'm also being very lenient on the "England" thing since the text does imply England is still a division of the realm ;).
    Tldr: nice arms but need a flag only image to go forward to the poll.
     
  8. Xanthoc Destroyer of Canada

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    Well 1, you did say invasions were fine, and the Danelaw dominated the Heptarchy for years before Edward the Confessor, and 2, I stated that England is the center of the realm, and had been for a long time when they were nearly driven out of Norway and Denmark entirely. I'd argue that a Kingdom of France and England is similar, especially given that in Trackah's submission the King is himself French. Also, arms removed, text for arms kept.
     
  9. The Professor Pontif of the Guild

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    Yes and because you mentioned that I accepted it as the Banner of Arms for England. Would using a different smiley have made it seem less accusatory?
     
  10. Xanthoc Destroyer of Canada

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    It was more the language of "very lenient" when my entry seemed to fit fine within the present rules.
     
  11. The Professor Pontif of the Guild

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    I suppose that you didn't see the update to the challenge on including heptarchy derived countries where it names England: ""England" refers to any post Heptarchy state roughly corresponding to most of modern day England and named England."
    I did think of expanding "England" to anything meaning roughly "English/Anglian realm" but thought that would complicate things too much.
    Your post did specifically mention England as the main part of the realm without implying it no longer existed and so I thought the realm fit the spirit of England without technically including the label England. Kind of how OTL Great Britain is "England & Scotland" without either in the name of the realm.
     
  12. Xanthoc Destroyer of Canada

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    I guess I can edit my post, but in the North Sea Empire in OTL, officially the monarch ruled over the three kingdoms of England, Norway, and Denmark. I meant to imply that England remains one of the constituent kingdoms in the federation that is the Empire. Meaning I have a post-Heptarchy state (the Danelaw under Canute) that roughly corresponds to most of modern day England, given that it rules most of OTL England, but also owns OTL Denmark and southern Norway, but is centered in England and is still officially named the Kingdom of England, it is just beneath the North Sea Empire.

    EDIT: I have now added that London is the capital, that the Kingdom of England is one of the three 'Federal Kingdoms' within the Empire, and is the most dominant and influential one. I hope that works :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
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  13. Xanthoc Destroyer of Canada

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    Oh and to all, I just posted this thread to discuss the possibility of creating a Coat of Arms Challenge. Input from everyone here who would be interested in most welcome!
     
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  14. The Professor Pontif of the Guild

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    Let me know if the challenge needs extending, merely waiting on a third entry within the day.
     
  15. The Professor Pontif of the Guild

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    As no third entry - rather disappointingly :frown: - I will extend by 2 days.
    Please let me know if you plan to enter and might miss the deadline.
     
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  16. Slartibartfast Member

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    Jan 8, 2017
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    Please be gentle....first time posting on AH! Also apologies for the lateness in posting. If its too late then fair enough.

    THE BRITANNIC FEDERATION OF ENGLAND

    Rather than the seven kingdoms joining via conquest etc to form England, all kingdoms peacefully decided to join together in a federation whereby each kingdom remains fully autonomous and ruled by their respective King, but gather in the biggest city London, every year to make decisions that are important to all areas like the continued harrying by Norsemen, from all directions (Normandy in the South, Dublin in the West, Scotland and Man in the North and, of course, the from the Scandinavian homelands in the East) and how to deal with them. The Federation then agreed a non-aggression pact with the Norseman....in return for future peace, the Norsemen were given the Northumbrian sub-kingdom of Deira (present day Yorkshire) as their own nation - Danelaw (although smaller than OTL). Due the continued success of the Federation and growing threat from the continent (Holy Roman Empire etc) the Federation formalised their Union and agreed that the royal families of each kingdom would elect a supreme leader to rule the Fedration.

    The flag combines the flags of the constituent kingdoms (Mercia - Blue background, Gold - Wessex & Essex, Red - Kent & Essex, Burgundy - Northumberland & Wessex, White for the peace in all kingdoms.) along with the Nordic cross for Danelaw and the Fleur de Lis was adapted from the Norman design to represent the elected Supreme leader.

    03102017.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
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  17. Trackah the Uchronaut

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    Did I miss the voting post?:confused:
     
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  18. Xanthoc Destroyer of Canada

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    It's been 8 days since this extension. If @The Professor doesn't post a thread soon, should someone post it themselves?
     
  19. Xanthoc Destroyer of Canada

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  20. Petike Sky Pirate Extraordinaire Kicked

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    The poll is still going after a week ?!

    Come on, people, don't let the WFC die again. We put so much hard work into all the reforms.
     
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