There are a couple of threads going on discussing what would have happened in Timeline 191 if we expended it past the novels. However like the novels, most posts focus exclusively on military and political changes; this of course is a very limited picture of what the world in TL 191 would actually look like. Particularly because by seeing by that angle it looks very similar to ours with just a few changes in WWI and WWII Being a film student and art history major this really bugged me while reading the series. Turtledove only mentions any of these topics in the second book of the series: American Front.
The world of TL 191 would actually be a very strange world. These are a few points of social, economic and changes that the novel overlooks. All which would affect the way people think.
I will start with what the TL 191 World is more familiar with:
Economics
Socialism as a viable economic system - The fear of communism that existed throughout most of the Western world in OTL up until the 1980s would not exist. Although Russia and the CSA both experienced communist revolts none of these were successful; furthermore, the US has experimented with socialist polices and has had 4 socialist presidents. Excluding Blackford’s presidency, the economic policies of the socialist party turned out to be for the most part successful. It would be safe to assume that other countries will follow the US examples. And without a commie-phobic McCarthyesquvery possible that the spread of Marxist ideas through out the world would spread much faster, although in a much more moderate sense than in OTL. Because the war of economic ideologies is not present in TL 191, new economic ideas would be accepted more easily resulting in a much more economically progressive world.
However imperialist economies are still present, and will act as a counter ideology against Socialism. Imperialist economic theories (drawing wealth from one’s colonies) had dominated the economic system for hundreds of years and in TL 191 they are still very much present at a point where in OTL they were considered outdated and tyrannical. In TL the Imperial powers have changed; rather than being France and Britain the world has passed unto the hands of the US, Germany and Japan; all who have colonies, and occupied territories to exploit. We can see that in US the Democratic Party’s economic policies are somewhat imperialist; unlike in OTL this is still accepted in TL 191.
Such changes would severely alter the way people think and this would in turn change much of society including art, music, architecture, city design, and habits. Here I will try to describe how some of these would have change.
Most importantly, because the world is still heavily militarized, and a Socialist President is in power at the end of the Second Great War (even though Dewey is inaugurated soon afterwards), consumer culture will decently not be created much less encouraged as an economic solution to the economic state of the world. Even the Democrats would look into their new colonies as ways to improve the standard of living not consumer commodities. It is clear to me that Turtledove knows little of economics he created a new Great Depression out of the blue, but the same cannot be done by consumer culture under a government with Marxist or even Imperialist ideologies. Without consumer culture the world will evolve very differently for one part technological development on private matters will go much slower. Microwavable meals, a TV in every American home, every American driving his own car, or the notion of the American Dream as every American owning his white picket fence will be seriously different. (Later on in architecture I will explain how unlikely it would be for Suburbia to even exist).
Art
Marchel Duchamp (who appears in the Great War trilogy) serves as an excellent point of divergence to see how art evolved. In OTL Duchamp was part of the expressionist movement (more accurately cubism) before WWI, his Woman Descending Staircase, is a perfect example of this. At the end of WWI he moved to Switzerland where the Dadaist, most whom were German, began their movement. Dadaism was an absurdist form of art that focused on how society, particularly German society was going down the drain because of the war.
In TL 191 it is mentioned that Duchamp paints another painting a portrait of Anne Colton after the war. This painting is still in a cubist style. Because most of the Dadaists of OTL were German we can assume this movement never existed. Why? Because Germany was not as in bad shape as it was in our timeline and because non-German Dadaists like Duchamp appear to still paint in expressionistic genres. How does this affect the rest of the world? Dadaism, and most of modernist thought, was a pessimistic view of the world, one that wanted to redraw society from scratch. The fact that these trails of though never occurred can actually explain why instead of looking for new forms on how to organize society as it happened in OTL with communism an fascism, people instead looked back towards older forms of organization, such as monarchy, Russia and France both regressed into absolutism once again. Society in TL 191 is much more nostalgic that society in OTL. This can be seen on how in OTL Nazi Germany was trying to create a 1000-year Reich, while France in TL191 was trying to restore the French Empire.
As a consequence there will also a greater trust in classical art. In OTL neo-classicism was demonized because it was the Nazi’s preferred form of art. In TL191 it is much more likely that France would trying to restore Paris’ stance as the world’s art capital, a title that now probably belongs to New York or Berlin. To do so the French would try to be as avant-garde as possible. After France’s defeat in the Second Great War it is much more likely that modernism will be the demonized art. This changes the world big time: architecture would be completely different (a topic I will dedicate more time further on), which means it will change the way people live, if modernism never occurs a big wave of modernist artist Andy Warhol, Jackson Pollock, Keith Haring, just to name a few will never come into the light. This is unless there is a major revolution of thought happens later in the timeline it is very unlike for modernism to be taken seriously. And as we saw in economics consumer culture is severely hindered in TL 191, without it there is no way Pop-art will come into being.
As a small note the Swastika will still be a symbol commonly used. In OTL it was a popular team logo or a good luck charm (even in Europe) before the Nazi’s claimed it as their symbol. The Freedom Party Banner might take its place but it is highly unlikely as a red X can be used for basically anything and means anything. I don’t see a taboo still existing 60 years down the line if someone uses a red X for an organization’s logo like we would for the swastika today.
Alright this is all I have for right now but don’t worry I still have quite a few chapters to go but let me know what you guys think.
The world of TL 191 would actually be a very strange world. These are a few points of social, economic and changes that the novel overlooks. All which would affect the way people think.
I will start with what the TL 191 World is more familiar with:
Economics
Socialism as a viable economic system - The fear of communism that existed throughout most of the Western world in OTL up until the 1980s would not exist. Although Russia and the CSA both experienced communist revolts none of these were successful; furthermore, the US has experimented with socialist polices and has had 4 socialist presidents. Excluding Blackford’s presidency, the economic policies of the socialist party turned out to be for the most part successful. It would be safe to assume that other countries will follow the US examples. And without a commie-phobic McCarthyesquvery possible that the spread of Marxist ideas through out the world would spread much faster, although in a much more moderate sense than in OTL. Because the war of economic ideologies is not present in TL 191, new economic ideas would be accepted more easily resulting in a much more economically progressive world.
However imperialist economies are still present, and will act as a counter ideology against Socialism. Imperialist economic theories (drawing wealth from one’s colonies) had dominated the economic system for hundreds of years and in TL 191 they are still very much present at a point where in OTL they were considered outdated and tyrannical. In TL the Imperial powers have changed; rather than being France and Britain the world has passed unto the hands of the US, Germany and Japan; all who have colonies, and occupied territories to exploit. We can see that in US the Democratic Party’s economic policies are somewhat imperialist; unlike in OTL this is still accepted in TL 191.
Such changes would severely alter the way people think and this would in turn change much of society including art, music, architecture, city design, and habits. Here I will try to describe how some of these would have change.
Most importantly, because the world is still heavily militarized, and a Socialist President is in power at the end of the Second Great War (even though Dewey is inaugurated soon afterwards), consumer culture will decently not be created much less encouraged as an economic solution to the economic state of the world. Even the Democrats would look into their new colonies as ways to improve the standard of living not consumer commodities. It is clear to me that Turtledove knows little of economics he created a new Great Depression out of the blue, but the same cannot be done by consumer culture under a government with Marxist or even Imperialist ideologies. Without consumer culture the world will evolve very differently for one part technological development on private matters will go much slower. Microwavable meals, a TV in every American home, every American driving his own car, or the notion of the American Dream as every American owning his white picket fence will be seriously different. (Later on in architecture I will explain how unlikely it would be for Suburbia to even exist).
Art
Marchel Duchamp (who appears in the Great War trilogy) serves as an excellent point of divergence to see how art evolved. In OTL Duchamp was part of the expressionist movement (more accurately cubism) before WWI, his Woman Descending Staircase, is a perfect example of this. At the end of WWI he moved to Switzerland where the Dadaist, most whom were German, began their movement. Dadaism was an absurdist form of art that focused on how society, particularly German society was going down the drain because of the war.
In TL 191 it is mentioned that Duchamp paints another painting a portrait of Anne Colton after the war. This painting is still in a cubist style. Because most of the Dadaists of OTL were German we can assume this movement never existed. Why? Because Germany was not as in bad shape as it was in our timeline and because non-German Dadaists like Duchamp appear to still paint in expressionistic genres. How does this affect the rest of the world? Dadaism, and most of modernist thought, was a pessimistic view of the world, one that wanted to redraw society from scratch. The fact that these trails of though never occurred can actually explain why instead of looking for new forms on how to organize society as it happened in OTL with communism an fascism, people instead looked back towards older forms of organization, such as monarchy, Russia and France both regressed into absolutism once again. Society in TL 191 is much more nostalgic that society in OTL. This can be seen on how in OTL Nazi Germany was trying to create a 1000-year Reich, while France in TL191 was trying to restore the French Empire.
As a consequence there will also a greater trust in classical art. In OTL neo-classicism was demonized because it was the Nazi’s preferred form of art. In TL191 it is much more likely that France would trying to restore Paris’ stance as the world’s art capital, a title that now probably belongs to New York or Berlin. To do so the French would try to be as avant-garde as possible. After France’s defeat in the Second Great War it is much more likely that modernism will be the demonized art. This changes the world big time: architecture would be completely different (a topic I will dedicate more time further on), which means it will change the way people live, if modernism never occurs a big wave of modernist artist Andy Warhol, Jackson Pollock, Keith Haring, just to name a few will never come into the light. This is unless there is a major revolution of thought happens later in the timeline it is very unlike for modernism to be taken seriously. And as we saw in economics consumer culture is severely hindered in TL 191, without it there is no way Pop-art will come into being.
As a small note the Swastika will still be a symbol commonly used. In OTL it was a popular team logo or a good luck charm (even in Europe) before the Nazi’s claimed it as their symbol. The Freedom Party Banner might take its place but it is highly unlikely as a red X can be used for basically anything and means anything. I don’t see a taboo still existing 60 years down the line if someone uses a red X for an organization’s logo like we would for the swastika today.
Alright this is all I have for right now but don’t worry I still have quite a few chapters to go but let me know what you guys think.