The Union Forever: A TL
- Thread starter Mac Gregor
- Start date
The Austrians have been able to hold such a long front because the Russians up till early 1909 have been busy either fighting Japan in the East or pushing the Austro-Hungarians out of Russian Poland.
Concerning Japan, it is important to remember that Japan was winning against Russia for most of first part of the war so they had little incentive to make peace. Now, Russia refuses to make peace with Japan unless the Japanese relinquish Korea. That would be tantamount to admitting defeat for the Japanese so they have no choice but to continue the war. Furthermore, Japan is more capable to conduct the war than OTL because ITTL Japan is stronger, having annexed Korea in 1900 as opposed to 1910. However, it is fair to say though that Japan is severely strained by the ongoing war.
Canadians don't take colonies
. They're too polite. Seriously, though, might a Vimy Ridge-type battle (in Waterloo, maybe?
) serve as a symbol of Canadian nationalism? Oh and some ANZAC action would be cool.Marc A
Canadians don't take colonies
Seriously, though, might a Vimy Ridge-type battle (in Waterloo, maybe?
Marc A
was there ever a real "battle of waterloo" in WW1? or was that just in the napoleonic wars?
It looks like Greece and Serbia are saved in the last moment.
I think that the British severly underestimate their enemies, the Entente Impériale which can threaten the British Empire more than (especially in the Mediterranean theater after the local Alliance states stated dropping out) the OTL Central powers.
I think that the British severly underestimate their enemies, the Entente Impériale which can threaten the British Empire more than (especially in the Mediterranean theater after the local Alliance states stated dropping out) the OTL Central powers.
The Great War: American Entry
USA all the Way
America joins the War
The United States Congress declaring war on the French Empire
March 8, 1909
Background
The reasons for American intervention in the Great War are numerous and complex. This short section will endeavor to discuss a few of the major factors that ultimately led to the declaration of war against the French Empire on March 8th, 1909.
Francophobia
Starting with the French invasion of Mexico in 1862, America and France had for most of the latter half of the twentieth century had a mutually distrustful and antagonistic relationship. Although the Americans eventually forced the French to withdraw, the French built Panamanian Canal and suspected support for Spain in the 1877-1878 Spanish-American War further exacerbated poor Franco-American relations. Furthermore, the United States deeply resented France's close alliances with certain Latin American nations such as the Empire of Brazil and Columbia.
Ties with the Alliance
Demographically, the United States was heavily tied to the Alliance nations. Indeed, the vast majority of Americans could trace their ancestry back to either British, Irish, German, Italian, Polish, or Russian roots. The United States was also much more ideologically tied to the more liberal governments of the Alliance than to the absolute monarchies of the Entente.
The Bonaparte- Hanotaux Letters
As in Britain, the disclosure of the Bonaparte-Hanotaux Letters unleashed a firestorm of Anti-French sentiment. Although America had a long history of isolationism, Americans were deeply troubled about letting Napoleon IV with his expansionist aims run wild in Europe. Also, Napoleon’s desire to reacquire former French territory in the New World, such as Haiti and Quebec, was a clear violation of the Monroe Doctrine. By the time Britain had entered the war, many Americans believed that if France wasn’t dealt with now the United States would have to deal with a stronger French Empire in the decades to come.
Anxiety about the post war world
The United Kingdom’s entry into the Great War further complicated matters for the United States. Many American policy makers and academics now predicted that with British help the Alliance would eventually emerge victorious. Some, such as Secretary of State McKinley, worried that without America’s “moderating republican influence” the post war world would be dominated by the vengeful states of Prussia, Russia, and Great Britain. To illustrate his fears to Congress during the debate to declare war, McKinley had a map created titled “While America Slept” which showed his idea of the post war world. The map showed Britain having annexed all of France’s oversea colonies. Russia absorbed all of the Orthodox and Turkish parts of the Ottoman Empire, the Balkans, and Hungary. Fracturing China would be divided between the British and Russian Empires. McKinley also claimed that Prussia would form a “German Empire” and dominate the remaining European states. His bleak assessment of the post war situation did much to sway members of Congress who argued that if the Alliance was to emerge victorious anyway why should America join the war.
Sinking of American Ships
Historians largely agree that the incident which ultimately pushed the United States to declare war was the March 2nd sinking of the American passenger ship Macon. The loss of the Macon was the latest in a series of American ships that had been sunk “accidentally” by the Imperial French Navy. The Macon, and her 237 American passengers, had left New York City before the UK had entered the war. As the ship approached the British port of Bristol it was torpedoed by the French submarine Pieuvre which supposedly mistook the vessel for a British troop transport.
The Declaration of War
On March 8, 1909 President Lincoln asked a joint session of Congress to declare war on the French Empire “in order to ensure that liberty and not despotism would prevail in the 20th Century.” The Senate and House of Representatives voted 78 to 20 and 366 to 84 in favor of the declaration. As the House chamber broke into The Battle Cry of Freedom, President Lincoln is reported to have turned to Vice President Johnson and said “now the Emperor will see how freemen fight!”
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A recreation of Secretary of State William McKinley's map "While America Slept" which showed his fanciful prediction of what a post war world without American entry into the war might look like.
And there we go. It's only France that the US has DoW'd on, though, so this should make things more interesting.
So McKinley dislikes Space-Filling Empires that don't involve a lot of USA blue, hm?
So McKinley dislikes Space-Filling Empires that don't involve a lot of USA blue, hm?
wow this war is getting interesting now both Britain and the USA are in the fighting France is truly going to get screwed from all sides, I hope the UK and USA can together launch some kind of amphibious assault against France and not just send troops to Prussia and I hope that they also can send aid and troops to save the Balkan nations
This is probably the Alliance's reaction to America's entry into the war on their side:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLYoeQc5VlU
And this is probably France's reaction to America's declaration of war:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s&feature=related
And now the final peice to the puzzle falls into place. Well, it had to happen sooner of later, of course, and this looks like it wont do a lot of damage to the Republicans right away (Perhaps in the post-war world it will). However, the fear of a world dominated by the Alliance makes me think that America will have a major say in the re-drawing of the post-war map.
Hey everyone,
Now that the UK and USA have entered the war, I would like to start hearing speculation on how the war will progress. Details please! such as how and where the the UK and USA will deploy there troops. Speculation on the post war situation would also be great. Thanks for the feedback.
Cheers!
Now that the UK and USA have entered the war, I would like to start hearing speculation on how the war will progress. Details please! such as how and where the the UK and USA will deploy there troops. Speculation on the post war situation would also be great. Thanks for the feedback.
Cheers!
To help with the question above, here is a map of the Great War Belligerents as of March 9, 1909.
The Entente Impériale is in blue. Alliance members are in red. Entente gains are in light blue. Alliance gains are in light red. Please note that the United Kingdom is not at war with the Empire of Japan.
The Entente Impériale is in blue. Alliance members are in red. Entente gains are in light blue. Alliance gains are in light red. Please note that the United Kingdom is not at war with the Empire of Japan.
IIRC there's only one Battle of Waterloo, and that was the one in 1815.
I said I hope to see a Battle of Waterloo ITTL is because I thought it'd be cool to have another Bonaparte's ass kicked in the same place.
And wouldn't it be nice to see Canadians kick-ass? It might turn out to be TTL's Vimy Ridge. Marc A
Poor French Forces... Victory was so close.
I expect Russia to focus on Japan and push them out of Port Arthur and the rest of southern Manchuria back into Korea, while the Imperial British Forces try to conquer the Suez channel and Egypt, the strategically most important parts of the French overseas empire.
Most French colonies are not really important and their defense weakend by the transfer of available troops to the European theater.
I expect Russia to focus on Japan and push them out of Port Arthur and the rest of southern Manchuria back into Korea, while the Imperial British Forces try to conquer the Suez channel and Egypt, the strategically most important parts of the French overseas empire.
Most French colonies are not really important and their defense weakend by the transfer of available troops to the European theater.
So is the US only at war with France or is it at war with AH/OE/Japan as well?
If Japan is only at war really with the Russians I could see them majorly cleaning up since while Germany is the Entente's primary focus Russia is a photo finish second place and if the majority of US/UK aid and such goes to Germany Russia will have to face the OE/AH/Japan by itself almost...
I can see Germany getting the vast lion's share of US/UK troops and supplies at first with Russia getting more an more support as time goes on...
Surprisingly I think the Entente could still pull off a win or stalemate if France can knock Germany so far back on its heels they can't recover even with support. The fact that the Brits don't have the convenience of shipping right across the Channel is going to play a big role here. While this is happening Russia is getting pounded on 3 fronts and either has to give up on one front (Far East most likely)...
So while the Alliance just got two new fresh members they are most definitely 'green' and while they can certainly cause havok in the periphery (France can kiss it's colonial holdings goodbye) The Entente's core is imo stronger atm than the Alliance's in that the US/UK would blanch at trying to invade a France/AH/OE without a base of operations.
If Japan is only at war really with the Russians I could see them majorly cleaning up since while Germany is the Entente's primary focus Russia is a photo finish second place and if the majority of US/UK aid and such goes to Germany Russia will have to face the OE/AH/Japan by itself almost...
I can see Germany getting the vast lion's share of US/UK troops and supplies at first with Russia getting more an more support as time goes on...
Surprisingly I think the Entente could still pull off a win or stalemate if France can knock Germany so far back on its heels they can't recover even with support. The fact that the Brits don't have the convenience of shipping right across the Channel is going to play a big role here. While this is happening Russia is getting pounded on 3 fronts and either has to give up on one front (Far East most likely)...
So while the Alliance just got two new fresh members they are most definitely 'green' and while they can certainly cause havok in the periphery (France can kiss it's colonial holdings goodbye) The Entente's core is imo stronger atm than the Alliance's in that the US/UK would blanch at trying to invade a France/AH/OE without a base of operations.
Well here's a few thoughts broken down by each nation -
USA:
First things first is to occupy all of France's territory in the Western Hemisphere, whether they do it or one of their allies, from Saint Pierre and Miquelon down to French Guiana. They may not be direct threats, but they could serve as bases for the dreaded French subs and any other naval assets (French commerce raiders?).
A much similar line of thought for the various French Pacific Island holdings will be targeted to remove those threats. This while give time for the Army to build up for much larger deployment to Europe.
After that a blockade of France would be in order before they start shipping any armies over. The technology to do a proper naval landing really didn't exist till around the late 30s without it turning out like Galipoli (maybe the British will try that out and have it not work so well in France before the US even gets there?) so I'd expect the US to just ship divisions into places like Hamburg.
Prussia & Russia -
Get British/Commonwealth troops along their fronts. Probably a more dire need for the Prussians than the Russians, but any help will be greatly appreciated. The Prussians unfortunately do not have the luxury of freedom of action as they are going to be on the receiving end of France's dire need to take them out NOW.
Russia now has some options to take some time to pause and take stock of the situation as a good deal of support is about to come their way. Expect some of the more harebrained schemes to be put away and more deliberate actions will take place.
UK & Commonwealth -
As with the US removing or restricting French naval power is a priority. That means defeating ships as well as taking possible anchorages to keep shipping lines secure. North America, Asia, Africa, South America, the Pacific these are all going to be forefront of the early British and Commonwealth moves, but I'd expect some kind of land force to be landed in Prussia...maybe land in Hannover (
) and take up a section of the front.Britain is going to be looking for some kind of naval confrontation with the French fleet, but barring that they'll go for a blockade. However they might find the French surface fleet slipping away to the Med. which would be hard to contain since France controls the Suez, has plenty of anchorages, and Britain has only one entry point.
France:
IS going to be panicking a bit. They are going to have to redeploy some troops around, and reinforce critical colonies (Egypt and the Atlantic portions of North Africa [is Dakar a big naval port at this time? If so it'll need protecting] specifically). They are also going to want to get rid of whatever presence and territories their new enemies have in the Med.
There big objective though is to they need to take down Prussia NOW. Actually yesterday would be better. Expect some rushed (probably not knee jerky hasty though) offenses into Prussia. They need to knock Prussia out ASAP before the US and UK can get ground forces into Prussia. That would be disastrous.
The French fleet is not vastly outnumbered. A withdrawal of the surface fleet to the Med. might be in order, but the sub arm is going to be sinking ships left and right in the North Sea, the Channel, the Irish Sea, and the Atlantic. The Indian Ocean and the Pacific will be good hunting grounds as well once they move some subs there.
Ottoman Empire:
Move against British concerns in Arabia. They do not want a new front to open up here and best to squash any potential expansion points ASAP. If need be I could see them even pulling back on the Caucus front (or stop) to the best defensive positions they can get and redirect troops south. They'll probably also want to finish off Greece and take Cyprus quickly as well.
Austria-Hungary:
Will probably get dragged in by France to launch some ill advised attacks on Prussia to support their frantic attacks when they should be concentrating on finishing off the Balkan nations and Russia.
Just thoughts off the top of my head, hope they help.
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