The Union Forever: A TL

[Tallest Skil]

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=8935494&highlight=moon#post8935494[/url]

Ah, yes, thanks. Did the US get there first? We need a “Complete” thread for this TL like Ameriwank has. I know it’s not complete yet, but neither is Ameriwank; at least it would be one chapter after another.

Maybe Micronesia eventually, but else than that, highly doubtful. Unless there's a really big war and the world goes dystopia.

Why dystopia? I am diametrically opposed to the modern predilection of some toward the permanence of lines on the map.

 

[metastasis_d]

Ah, yes, thanks. Did the US get there first? We need a “Complete” thread for this TL like Ameriwank has. I know it’s not complete yet, but neither is Ameriwank; at least it would be one chapter after another.

Search the thread for the word "moon."

Why dystopia? I am diametrically opposed to the modern predilection of some toward the permanence of lines on the map.

It's hard to imagine anyone wanting to join the US in this stable world unless their country is some kind of real shithole, and it's hard to imagine the US being willing to accept any (that it hasn't already made states.) At least in the foreseeable future. I mean Canada would have to get nuked or something for one of its provinces to want to join the US.

 

[Tallest Skil]

It's hard to imagine anyone wanting to join the US in this stable world unless their country is some kind of real shithole, and it's hard to imagine the US being willing to accept any (that it haven't already made states.) At least in the foreseeable future. I mean Canada would have to get nuked or something for one of its provinces to want to join the US.

Ah, I see what you mean, then.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Yay we've made it to the 1980s Can't wait to see what the new decade brings and whether the allies have won the peace or not!

 

[Lalli]

Yay we've made it to the 1980s Can't wait to see what the new decade brings and whether the allies have won the peace or not!

Leastly India and Japan not threat anyone long time if ever. And let's see how democracy in Venezuela progress. I think that wars are mostly just colonial wars. These might be pretty messy.

 

[Mac Gregor]

So by this point ITTL, the Germans still have the lead in the space race, and are about 5yrs behind OTL? Any hints onto where there next few steps will lead?

No shocker on the US elections, though, nor Chinese instant sunshine.

After the war, it looks like a collective, "What's next?" across the globe.

I would say that Germany is roughly tied with the U.S. in the space race. As far as their next step. There has been talk in some circles of a manned moon station, Venus flyby, or even a trip to Mars.

Concerning the "What's next?" across the globe, the latest update may be a little misleading as it was meant to discuss topics not war related. The second half of 1980 say massive demobilization and the beginning of reconstruction. The 1981 update will deal much more with the war's aftermath and the new global balance of power.

 

[Mac Gregor]

The US... did go to the Moon, right?



Just happy to see the larger US and states everywhere. Any more land to be had? Wink wink, nudge nudge?

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=8935494&highlight=moon#post8935494



Maybe Micronesia eventually, but else than that, highly doubtful. Unless there's a really big war and the world goes dystopia.

Ah, yes, thanks. Did the US get there first? We need a “Complete” thread for this TL like Ameriwank has. I know it’s not complete yet, but neither is Ameriwank; at least it would be one chapter after another.



Why dystopia? I am diametrically opposed to the modern predilection of some toward the permanence of lines on the map.

Search the thread for the word "moon."

It's hard to imagine anyone wanting to join the US in this stable world unless their country is some kind of real shithole, and it's hard to imagine the US being willing to accept any (that it hasn't already made states.) At least in the foreseeable future. I mean Canada would have to get nuked or something for one of its provinces to want to join the US.

Ah, I see what you mean, then.

Yes indeed, the United States landed on the moon first in 1975.

As far as future states, the United States currently has the territories of Micronesia, American Guiana, and the Bonin Islands plus a few minor islands and atolls. It is possible that some of these will be come future states.

 

[FickleCrossroad]

I would say that Germany is roughly tied with the U.S. in the space race. As far as their next step. There has been talk in some circles of a manned moon station, Venus flyby, or even a trip to Mars.

Concerning the "What's next?" across the globe, the latest update may be a little misleading as it was meant to discuss topics not war related. The second half of 1980 say massive demobilization and the beginning of reconstruction. The 1981 update will deal much more with the war's aftermath and the new global balance of power.

Sorry, I meant 5yrs behind OTL, as it sounds like SkyLab but not yet the Shuttle.

 

[metastasis_d]

Yes indeed, the United States landed on the moon first in 1975.

As far as future states, the United States currently has the territories of Micronesia, American Guiana, and the Bonin Islands plus a few minor islands and atolls. It is possible that some of these will be come future states.

You might see the Bonin Islands and some outlying atolls combine with Micronesia, but as their population is ~2000 they probably can't be their own state.

It might be neat to see American Guiana combined with the French-speaking Guadeloupe and Martinique, as the distance isn't that big a deal when air travel is so commonplace, but the US government might be keeping it a territory for space travel purposes.

 

[Luminous]

You might see the Bonin Islands and some outlying atolls combine with Micronesia, but as their population is ~2000 they probably can't be their own state.

It might be neat to see American Guiana combined with the French-speaking Guadeloupe and Martinique, as the distance isn't that big a deal when air travel is so commonplace, but the US government might be keeping it a territory for space travel purposes.

That might not be the best for Guiana, though. The population is lower than the two islands combined OTL, so you'd have the two islands effectively ruling the larger piece of land that is so far away. Even though air travel cuts down on it, the demographics and diverging interests would lead to a West Indies state being divided from the onset. It's not implausible, but I think it would have to have been united from the onset.

That, and I think Guiana would have slightly less population ITTL, simply because the Hmong did not resettle there. ...In that vein, though, where did the original Hainan refugees resettle in the states? Did they go to California and the rest of the Pacific coast, or did they go elsewhere?

Hrm. About Bonin: Are the islands still mixed creole, or did the Japanese enforce their language and culture? Considering the efforts everywhere else, they might not have been able to spend it. Or, maybe, it was more successful.

 

[ZincOxide]

Caught up!

So the war is finally over. Now to see what lies ahead in science, technology, space exploration and the new peace in Asia.

 

[The Uchronian]

So, MacG, question for you: Can you give us a basic outline of what the parties look like ITTL, in terms of social & economic policy, etc.?

 

[Zaqwer]

Finally caught up! Good to see the world trying to get back on its feet following this massive war.

However, the new tensions in Asia will put the world on edge having just seen a devastating war. The Technate, at least will be hesitant to openly provoke the IEF until it has fully established technocratic regimes in its new puppets, I mean allies. (Speaking of which I would not be surprised if the Technocrats do well in the next Korean election.)

As for the rest of the world, I'm intrigued about this more peaceful Middle East and any cooperative alliance that might come out of it. Also could we see a nation profile on Kurdistan or Mesopotamia?

Again, this is a really awesome TL, I love how you've made a plausible world out of just a few butterflies!

 

[Mac Gregor]

So, MacG, question for you: Can you give us a basic outline of what the parties look like ITTL, in terms of social & economic policy, etc.?

Sure, good question. I assume you mean American political parties.

It is important to remember that there is considerable overlap between the two major American political parties, Democratic and Republican. ITTL they are both composed of an interesting mix of groups and policies. The following is a brief rundown as of 1980.

Republican Party: The GOP has a long history of support for civil rights, especially towards African Americans. During times of economic crisis Republicans usually push for an active government response such as federally funded public works projects. Republicans are more likely than Democrats to support free trade and expensive infrastructure projects. In foreign policy, the Republicans show greater support for foreign alliances such as the LAR and a robust military presence.

Democratic Party: Democrats trend to be more socially conservative than Republicans. On economic matters, the Democrats have a strong protectionist side that generates considerable support from labor unions. Concerning foreign policy, the Democrats are more reluctant to enter into agreements with foreign powers and usually aim to keep the military small and at home.

ITTL there is no such thing as the “God gap”, with believers more or less equally split between the parties.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Finally caught up! Good to see the world trying to get back on its feet following this massive war.

However, the new tensions in Asia will put the world on edge having just seen a devastating war. The Technate, at least will be hesitant to openly provoke the IEF until it has fully established technocratic regimes in its new puppets, I mean allies. (Speaking of which I would not be surprised if the Technocrats do well in the next Korean election.)

As for the rest of the world, I'm intrigued about this more peaceful Middle East and any cooperative alliance that might come out of it. Also could we see a nation profile on Kurdistan or Mesopotamia?

Again, this is a really awesome TL, I love how you've made a plausible world out of just a few butterflies!

Thanks Zaqwer, glad you liked it. I will try and do a profile on Kurdistan or Mesopotamia soon.

 

[rick007]

I just had an idea for a book cover (should Mac decide to publish this TL in book form). Make it look like something out of the 1860s, either a copy of Harper's Weekly, pulp novel of the period or a novel cover of the period. I'd do it myself but I can't draw.

 

[Mac Gregor]

I just had an idea for a book cover (should Mac decide to publish this TL in book form). Make it look like something out of the 1860s, either a copy of Harper's Weekly, pulp novel of the period or a novel cover of the period. I'd do it myself but I can't draw.

That sounds like a good idea.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone, here is a quick profile on Kurdistan. Enjoy!

Name: Kingdom of Kurdistan
Capital: Amed
Largest City: Arbel
Population: 11,982,000 (1980)
Official Language: Kurdish
Official Religion: Islam
Demonym: Kurd
Government: Absolute Monarchy
Head of State and Government: King Seraw Aga
Independence: October 23, 1911 (from Ottoman Empire)
Currency: Kurdish Lira

Brief History of Kurdistan 1860-1980

Before the Great War, the territory that would one day become the Kingdom of Kurdistan was divided into a number of Ottoman Vilayets. During the war, the region was invaded by Russian forces and after the Treaty of Brussels established as an independent Kingdom under the protection of the Russian Empire. For the first the half of the 20th Century, Kurdistan remained an impoverished backwater wedged between its more powerful neighbors. In the 1950s however things began to improve after Kurdistan’s significant oil wealth began to be developed, creating not only a small number of wealthy elites but also a growing middleclass. Politically, Kurdistan remains a repressive absolute monarchy under the Hesenan dynasty. Kurdistan has several long running border disputes with its neighbor Turkey, but threats of Russian intervention has largely kept the peace. In recent years, King Seraw Aga has expressed interest in moving Kurdistan towards a more independent stance. This can be seen by his negotiations to build an oil pipeline through Syria to the Mediterranean.

 

[HongCanucker]

Free Kurdistan FTW! Wait.

Boo absolutism. Boo.

Seriously, Kurdistan doesn't seem to be doing too shabbily, but how powerful are constitutionalist, democratic and technocratic movements in the country, and is the current government seeking to liberalize soon?

 

[Beedok]

Turkey seems like it would have been more appropriate, but Kurdistan is close I suppose.