The Sun, The Stars and The Sickle: Alt-WWII and a Tripolar Postwar World

[WaterproofPotatoes]

Wow.
I expect that the enemy will wonder why the sky is flak.

The IJN was paying careful attention to Scharnhorst and her destroyer escort getting Force Z'd off the coast of Norway, and is determined to not let it happen to any of their ships.

In addition to the above dakka-dakka-boom (although in production, the Ashitakas' 5th 100mm mount on each side will be deleted, dropping the total back down to 16 with better arcs and less topweight), the IJN is developing a series of anti-aircraft shells in 12.2", 14" and 16" calibers for the main guns of its battleships and battlecruisers.

These "special purpose air-defence" shells are designed to air burst in a 20° cone of steel rods packed with incendiary material for enhanced barrage AA fire.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

In short, Type-3 shells.

 

[Yatta]

I wonder if they'll have Variable Timed fuses on them?

 

[Herr Frage]

What is Formosa looking like ITTL?

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

I’m guessing it’s the crown jewel of Japan. Their model colony as it were.

 

[WaterproofPotatoes]

In short, Type-3 shells.

Indeed! Acceptance by the IJN will most likely not be until 1943. The complex "beehive" construction method, as well as initial quality issues with the driving bands plagued the program initially.

I wonder if they'll have Variable Timed fuses on them?

The VT Fuze project is going ahead, as an Anglo-Franco-Japanese-American joint effort, with scientists from each nation contributing. The SP-AA shells, due to the massive burst, will utilize a simple timed fuze.

As for the extra 100mm mounts ordered, they will go to replacing the 76mm guns on the first flight of the Agano class cruisers one-for-one, a modification which will also be carried out on the second flight.

What is Formosa looking like ITTL?

Formosa is, as @Jaenera Targaryen stated, the model colony in the Empire of Japan. Japanization is more successful there than any other colony, aided by the softer approach TTL. Taihoku (Taipei) and Takao (Kaohsiung) are important cities in the Empire. Taihoku is also a cosmopolitan city in its own right and a centre of trade- it is also not uncommon to find people fluent in Mandarin, Cantonese, Japanese and one or more European languages. NYK and OSK offer multiple, frequent voyages on well-appointed ships between Formosa and the Home Islands, and air travel, although disrupted by war, is gaining popularity.

 

[Herr Frage]

Formosa is, as @Jaenera Targaryen stated, the model colony in the Empire of Japan. Japanization is more successful there than any other colony, aided by the softer approach TTL. Taihoku (Taipei) and Takao (Kaohsiung) are important cities in the Empire. Taihoku is also a cosmopolitan city in its own right and a centre of trade- it is also not uncommon to find people fluent in Mandarin, Cantonese, Japanese and one or more European languages. NYK and OSK offer multiple, frequent voyages on well-appointed ships between Formosa and the Home Islands, and air travel, although disrupted by war, is gaining popularity.

I see, so their goal is likely that Formosa will become integrated into Japan proper as an Adopted Home Island?

What about the Indigenous Peoples?

 

[Rufus Shinra]

That discussion about shells makes me kinda wonder how the Japanese tank design will evolve in a timeline where they are associated with the two other empires. OTL, Thomson-Brandt managed to get the plans for explosive shaped charges out of occupied France to the US, leading to the development of the bazooka (and huge profits for the company that got a fee on all such warheads), soon copied by Germany and UK. However, here, there are quite closer allies, and the plans are likely to go to UK for production under licence for UK, the Frog government in exile and... Japan.

Point is that Japanese tanks were, IIRC, much smaller and lighter than their Western counterparts, due to their doctrinal use and the environment in which they were used. Could they see the shaped charge development as something to use to make HEAT shells, which would make their smaller tanks much, much more effective against armour? This in turn could lead to a post-war shift in tank design compared to OTL, where the Japanese, rather than the French, would be known for using lighter and more mobile armour armed with lower-velocity HEAT shells.

And like the Bristol Bushido, these 'colonial tanks' could end up being produced by the other Empires for use in Africa and Asia.

 

[WaterproofPotatoes]

I see, so their goal is likely that Formosa will become integrated into Japan proper as an Adopted Home Island?

What about the Indigenous Peoples?

The unfortunate Musha Incident did take place as OTL, but the changes that came were as strong, if not stronger, than OTL.

They are no longer considered "savages", but "Tribal Peoples of Taiwan", and subjects of the Japanese Emperor. The Japanese authorities are careful not to plant the seeds of rebellion, lest they spread.

 

[WaterproofPotatoes]

That discussion about shells makes me kinda wonder how the Japanese tank design will evolve in a timeline where they are associated with the two other empires. OTL, Thomson-Brandt managed to get the plans for explosive shaped charges out of occupied France to the US, leading to the development of the bazooka (and huge profits for the company that got a fee on all such warheads), soon copied by Germany and UK. However, here, there are quite closer allies, and the plans are likely to go to UK for production under licence for UK, the Frog government in exile and... Japan.

Point is that Japanese tanks were, IIRC, much smaller and lighter than their Western counterparts, due to their doctrinal use and the environment in which they were used. Could they see the shaped charge development as something to use to make HEAT shells, which would make their smaller tanks much, much more effective against armour? This in turn could lead to a post-war shift in tank design compared to OTL, where the Japanese, rather than the French, would be known for using lighter and more mobile armour armed with lower-velocity HEAT shells.

And like the Bristol Bushido, these 'colonial tanks' could end up being produced by the other Empires for use in Africa and Asia.

That is a very likely course of action indeed!

While the IJN is modeled on the Royal Navy, the IJA is modeled on the French Army. Even the Chief of the General Staff, Marshal Prince Morimasa Nashimoto, is President of the Franco-Japanese Society and has a French military education.

TTL, as in OTL, Japanese tanks, are lighter and smaller, as packing them onto landing craft is an important consideration. The TTL Type 1 Che-He with its 57mm Type 1 Tank Gun-equipped turret, weighs in at roughly 18.5 tonnes. By comparison, a Chinese National Army Pz. III weighs in at 23.5; the Pz. IV 28. The new American M4 Sherman tips the scales at 30 tonnes, more than one and a half times the mass of the best Japanese tank. Thus, something extra to give them an edge will be well appreciated, as simply packing bigger tube artillery into tanks won't work.

Large Japanese tanks are unlikely to develop during the war as well as the Navy has such a great need for armoured steel. Three Yamato class battleships and four each of the Ashitaka class battlecruisers and Taihou class carriers under construction are the top priority, and every ton of steel possible is earmarked for them.

Japan will also want a better man-portable AT weapon. The Type 97 20mm Autocannon is all but useless against anything other than Pz. I and IIs now, a situation that will certainly not improve, although it retains its effectiveness against soft-skinned vehicles.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Huh...I'm guessing there's another POD. A lot of officers slated for flag officer promotion were sent to France beforehand.

 

[WaterproofPotatoes]

Huh...I'm guessing there's another POD. A lot of officers slated for flag officer promotion were sent to France beforehand.

That is still the case TTL. As the dominant Continental power and victor of WWI, France is seen as the best power to model after. Naval officers also often have French exchanges as well, as the Marine Nationale is regarded as highly innovative.

 

[Rufus Shinra]

Huh...I'm guessing there's another POD. A lot of officers slated for flag officer promotion were sent to France beforehand.

That is still the case TTL. As the dominant Continental power and victor of WWI, France is seen as the best power to model after. Naval officers also often have French exchanges as well, as the Marine Nationale is regarded as highly innovative.

Well, while it won't be as bad as OTL, this posture is probably going to change a bit. As for the MN, yeah, it did - and still does, AFAIK - a reputation for innovation, that does not necessarly work out, though. The RN is a much more reliable element at that time, though, with strong traditions and a discipline that are closer in mentality to the Japanese culture. Its future influence on the IJN will probably depend on how the MN fast destroyers and submarines fare in the Med.

 

[WaterproofPotatoes]

Ah, there is one more territory in the Japanese Empire I haven't addressed- the South Seas Mandate.

TTL, Japan did not withdraw from the League of Nations, nor was she expelled, having accepted censure for the Mukden Incident and signed the 2nd London and Paris Naval Treaties. Therefore, she still has a mandate over the South Seas Islands. That means all the resources they offer and a super cool volcano naval base at Truk.

Also, while there will be no internment of Japanese Americans and Canadians on the west coast, neither will there be an internment program for Chinese Americans and Canadians. There is little worry as the Republic of China lacks a blue-water navy, and the Chinese community in both nations is supportive of the Union as well as the USA and Canada.

 

[WaterproofPotatoes]

West of Moscow, RFSSR, USSR

December 10th (or is it the 11th?), 1941

Early Morning


EVERYBODY knew it but no one would admit it, lest a commissar overhear. The War was going badly. The Fascists were closing in on Moscow, and there were so damn many of them.

For barely-nineteen year old Red Army soldier Peter Batuev, the very thought was terrifying. This wasn't supposed to happen. Moscow was now a Front City.

Since ninety percent of war is waiting, there was plenty of time to hear what was happening from comrades. The Nazi invaders had smashed their way through the Motherland from the Polish border, shoving the Red Army aside with masses of tanks and dive bombers. Worse, it was total warfare. They shot kids and old women. As soon as they captured a village, they would round up and shoot all the Jews. Minsk fell. Smolensk fell. Murmansk fell, which meant that supplies slowed to a trickle. The one bright spot in all this was that the English and Japanese launched a massive raid and sunk the German fleet at anchor in Murmansk, so at least supplies could still get through to Arkhangelsk.


But that wouldn't mean a damn thing if the Fascists got to Arkhangelsk first.



Right now, over a million strong, they began to extend the stubs of two pincers around Moscow to crush the city. For Peter, and two and a half million of his comrades, the task was to pry the pincers open and push them back at all costs. The commissars told him that it would be the biggest, most important, and most glorious battle ever fought. Peter wasn't convinced. It would, if what he heard when they weren't around, be a bloody struggle, man against man, with no concept of upholding the glory of Communism. Just survival.

Peter's poorly-made and too big coat barely kept him warm, but looking around, he was far from the worst off. At nineteen, he was barely more than a boy, but among him were actual boys; some of them must have been fifteen or sixteen and really had no business being there. Yet, here they were, eating soldiers' black bread, holding rifles that looked far too big for them, trying to smoke cigarettes and tell dirty jokes to fit in. His older comrades knew they didn't but said nothing. If the Motherland fell, if the People were broken, then there would be no future for them; no school for them to go back to, no girls for them to chase. Being on the front lines of the War would make them grow up too fast; if they weren't, they may never be able to grow up at all.


Perhaps it was fool's courage, or simple pride, but Peter felt determined to be a part of the force that finally drove the Fascists back. He wasn't motivated by a Hero medal, nor some sense of being the vanguard of Communism. It was survival. Survival for the old comrades and young boys. Survival, so when this all ended -and it had to- there would be something to go back to. Survival, because it sure as hell wasn't Peter's time to go yet.

Because, if the Russians are anything, they are survivors.


And, if he wasn't destined to survive, thought Peter, please let it be an artillery shell, so at least it would be quick and he wouldn't know it was coming. But don't let it come until these Fascist bastards are running West, and running scared.

 

[Anhtuan]

Careful there Hitler, Russia might pull the reverse uno trap card.

If it continues like this, Russia might not have enough manpower to send to China front. China's safe from Mao for sometime.

 

[luis3007]

China is too busy with its border war and the Japanese to even think about Russia by now.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

China is too busy with its border war and the Japanese to even think about Russia by now.

You never know how stupid dictators can be, especially when it seems that the frontline has finally stabilized. Outer Mongolia might just be too tempting for Jiang to pass up.

 

[WaterproofPotatoes]

Careful there Hitler, Russia might pull the reverse uno trap card.

If it continues like this, Russia might not have enough manpower to send to China front. China's safe from Mao for sometime.

Mao is a lot worse off TTL. He and his Communist loyalists are still around, pushed largely into Xinjiang Province and pockets in Outer Mongolia. While Stalin has backed Mao over Chiang earlier than in OTL, much of this support has been moral rather than material. Mao is regarded as unsophisticated by Soviet leadership, although not nearly as bad as his barely literate protegé, the Korean Marxist troublemaker Kim Il-Sung. Kim managed to escape Korea and Manchukuo on the strength of street brawler cunning, and is a late addition to Mao's fold.

TTL, with no Xi'An Incident, Chiang isn't even pretending to co-operate with Mao. Until the Shanghai Expulsion, Chiang considered Mao an equal if not larger problem than the Japanese posed. Chiang has several ways of dealing with the Communists. For one, a stronger Whampoa system has made the KMT a more effective fighting force in general, and much less likely to be in a position where warlords are selling munitions to the Communists for cash. As for warlords, Chiang has also dispatched Du Yuesheng to "reason" with Mao, or at the very least leave enough of Mao's men opium addicts that he will be more pliable.

On top of that, the Manchukuo Imperial Army, reinforced by the Kwantung and Chosen Armies, are squeezing Mao from the east. The fact that Manchukuo offers a better standard of living than Mao can offer makes pledging one's allegiance to the House of Aisin-Gioro rather than the Dictatorship of the Proletariat a lot more tempting. Enlarging Manchukuo's population at Mao's expense is also advantageous for Wu.

OTL, Manchukuo had a sizeable White Movement Russian community, who were considered stateless persons and subject to horrendous abuse and exploitation. TTL, since Manchukuo has a functioning system of law and order, things are much different. White Movement Russians, rather than being treated as undesirables, are instead considered both citizens and subjects of the Emperor of Manchukuo. This, in turn, led to more private traders and suspected Kulaks fleeing to Manchukuo during the Purges, and bringing with them considerable knowledge about commerce and agriculture in steppe climates. Unsurprisingly, this is a community that has volunteered in large numbers to fight the Communists, to the point that most have been transfered southwards to avoid friction with the Soviets.

 

[Luminous]

pushed largely into Xinjiang Province and pockets in Outer Mongolia.

Still makes me wonder if the Soviets will try to annex "East Turkestan" if they have the time and wherewithal before the Chinese can get their feat under them. That'd keep the Chinese hemmed in.

OTL, Manchukuo had a sizeable White Movement Russian community, who were considered stateless persons and subject to horrendous abuse and exploitation. TTL, since Manchukuo has a functioning system of law and order, things are much different. White Movement Russians, rather than being treated as undesirables, are instead considered both citizens and subjects of the Emperor of Manchukuo. This, in turn, led to more private traders and suspected Kulaks fleeing to Manchukuo during the Purges, and bringing with them considerable knowledge about commerce and agriculture in steppe climates. Unsurprisingly, this is a community that has volunteered in large numbers to fight the Communists, to the point that most have been transfered southwards to avoid friction with the Soviets.

I imagine if they maintain a large enough community, come the fall of the Soviet Union, they might have an interesting effect, especially if you have a solid government in exile form up.

That discussion about shells makes me kinda wonder how the Japanese tank design will evolve in a timeline where they are associated with the two other empires. OTL, Thomson-Brandt managed to get the plans for explosive shaped charges out of occupied France to the US, leading to the development of the bazooka (and huge profits for the company that got a fee on all such warheads), soon copied by Germany and UK. However, here, there are quite closer allies, and the plans are likely to go to UK for production under licence for UK, the Frog government in exile and... Japan.

I have a feeling that they are going to end up in the US as well, so you could have a more multinational or series of parallel development during the war years. Both Britain and Japan are doing well, but the US still has far more industrial slack to mass produce them. Japan itself might have a hard time, as the army is playing behind the eightball as it is and is struggling to keep up.

But yeah, could see it going to the UK and Japan for initial development, and when there simply isn't enough capacity, they go to the US.