The Iron Age of Comics: Jim Shooter's Return to Marvel
- Thread starter Pyro
- Start date
It is still in the realm of possibility for the following reasons.
I plan to keep DeFalco on a EiC until at least 1997-8 and butterflies will keep Mark Gruenwald alive for longer as well. In relation to the article, another butterfly is that Monica Rambeau will keep the mantle of Captain Marvel indefinitely.CBR said:
Thats good to hear - then again, I'm not sure Shooter would approve of the violence suggested in McDuffie's pitch for Shang-Chi. Not ot mention the contracts - I think there was a very limited window of opportunity IOTL with Milestone's exclusivity with DC.
Last edited:
Can you elaborate how?
Is it because of the violence or other reason? Was opposed to the Punisher?
While I like this idea I think it might work better with Jimmy Woo. But what do I really know.CBR said:
How do the following fit ITTL?:
www.cbr.com
www.cbr.com
Comic Legends: What Indie Comic Originated as a Hellstorm/Hellcat Series?
In the latest Comic Book Legends Revealed, find out what independent comic book series originated as a Hellstorm/Hellcat series!
www.cbr.com
Comic Legends: Did Jim Valentino Want to Use the Name Shadowhawk at Marvel?
In the latest Comic Book Legends Revealed, learn how Marvel wouldn't let Jim Valentino re-name a character Shadowhawk in Guardians of the Galaxy.
www.cbr.com
Well, I think in Gruenwald's case, the fact he's not put into a situation where he has to fire a lot of close personal friends means he's not under the stress he was IOTL which would hopefully reduce the likelihood of a heart attack like the one that killed him IOTL.
Shooter was famously restrictive on matters of violence during his tenure at Marvel - no hero was allowed to kill without consequence, so I don't know if McDuffie's pitch would be allowed, especially since it's such a departure from classic Shang-Chi.
As for Jimmy Woo, he'd most recently appeared in the Godzilla comics. It wasn't until Agents of Atlas that he came back into prominence in the Marvel Universe.
I can see that now.
That seems kinda stupid can hopefully be hand waved away with Tom DeFalco as EiC.
Are there any examples of this policy?
Perhaps too classic at this point in the timeline and in need of an update.
That OTL not necessarily ITTL plus that appearance in Godzilla was in 1979.
Chapter 33 - Rocking the Dragon
The challenge UPN posed to the Fox Kids programming block with Mighty Morphin’ Power Rangers had Fox scrambling for the “next big thing.” For that they would turn to the origin of MMPR’s antecedent: Japan. While Ultraman, Kamen Rider, and Metal Heroes proved tempting to Americanize, the network did not want to merely imitate their competition. For that they looked at the popularity of Dragon Ball Z in the land of the rising sun and commissioned Saban Entertainment (who worked with them on the X-Men animated series) to handle the dub. Using voice actors from the Ocean Group out of Vancouver, British Columbia, Dragon Ball Z debuted on Fox Kids in Fall 1994 to high ratings.
Indeed competition from DBZ caused Power Rangers’ ratings to dip slightly, its influence extended beyond television screens and into comic shop shelves. Carol Kalish [1], who was instrumental in bringing an English translation of Akira to Marvel’s Epic imprint, worked to bring not only a translation of the DBZ manga to North America, but the entirety of Shonen Jump as well. By working with retailers she helped pull in a new audience and thus a new audience who saw Marvel’s heroes sharing shelf space with Goku.
The larger impact of Dragon Ball Z would be a wider embrace of manga and anime in western pop culture to the point where Marvel’s competitors: DC, Malibu, and Dark Horse tirelessly worked to import manga to find the next DBZ. Indeed, Warner Bros. would find a surprising addition from Japan for its prime time line-up.
[1] Who survives ITTL due to the flap of a butterfly’s wings.
Indeed competition from DBZ caused Power Rangers’ ratings to dip slightly, its influence extended beyond television screens and into comic shop shelves. Carol Kalish [1], who was instrumental in bringing an English translation of Akira to Marvel’s Epic imprint, worked to bring not only a translation of the DBZ manga to North America, but the entirety of Shonen Jump as well. By working with retailers she helped pull in a new audience and thus a new audience who saw Marvel’s heroes sharing shelf space with Goku.
The larger impact of Dragon Ball Z would be a wider embrace of manga and anime in western pop culture to the point where Marvel’s competitors: DC, Malibu, and Dark Horse tirelessly worked to import manga to find the next DBZ. Indeed, Warner Bros. would find a surprising addition from Japan for its prime time line-up.
[1] Who survives ITTL due to the flap of a butterfly’s wings.
Will result in a licensing Marvel Manga imprint? What Marvel titles/characters who appear after 1994 get the manga treatment? Will this result in Marvel merging with a manga company?
I wanna guess and say Cowboy Bebop, but pre-pod Watanabe is working on Gundam 0083. God knows what he's doing now. Instead, I'm hoping Warner Bros picks up Patlabor, Ranma 1/2, or Sailor Moon.
I don't think they're permanently gone but will probably get a complete reboot. If they do reboot I hope they keep this design but maybe keep the original names.
The Legion will be rebooted after Countdown/Crisis II with a similar aesthetic. As for the codenames, I think Laurel Gand will be keeping Andromeda.I don't think they're permanently gone but will probably get a complete reboot. If they do reboot I hope they keep this design but maybe keep the original names.
Chapter 34 - Video Game Round-Up For 1994
(A big thank you to @Nivek and @Electric Monk for their input on the Nintendo 64)
1994 saw the first fruits of the Capcom/DC Comics partnership with the release of Superman: Shadow of Apokolips on the Super Nintendo Entertainment system. The game, produced by Tokuro Fujiwara, is a beat-em-up/platformer with some shoot-em-up elements similar to the 1988 Taito arcade game. It loosely follows the storyline of both Doomsday and Apokolips Now featuring the Man of Steel, Booster Gold, Superboy, and Steel as playable characters (curiously with Captain Marvel/Shazam as Player Two) fighting Cyborg Superman and Darkseid. Reviews of the are generally positive, if not average, and Capcom’s other big DC release ultimately overshadows it.
Justice League: Galactic Guardians hit arcades in the waning days of the year. Modelled after Super Street Fighter II and roughly inspired by both the The Challenge of the Superfriends animated series and the comics, the features Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Aquaman, and Black Canary battling the Legion of Doom (Lex Luthor, Joker, Cheetah, Gorilla Grodd, Black Manta, and Count Vertigo [1].) The game features such locales like the Hall of Justice, the Legion’s Headquarters, the Batcave as well as voice samples from Beau Weaver, BJ Ward [2], and Kevin Conroy. The game is a smash hit and heavily promoted in the lead-up to Superman 95’ and becomes a launch title for the Sega Saturn in North America come September 1995.
Speaking of which…
Nintendo is hard at work on Project Reality with Silicon Graphics. The success of Donkey Kong Country led the couple to delay their fifth-generation console to 1996 although strong holiday sales of Sega and Sony’s Saturn in Japan due to Virtua Fighter [3] and its anticipated release in the United States have caused some concern. Hiroshi Yamauchi insists that the new system stick with the cartridge format despite its competitor(s) using compact disc, however, SGI would use a more generalized SDRAM anticipating a price collapse while Nintendo would collaborate with Phillips on a sound chip for the new system.
The company would unveil the rechristened Nintendo 64 at Space World in late 1995, but the question on many minds was: would it slow Sega/Sony’s momentum?
[1] With Brainiac as the final boss. Interestingly, Capcom uses his 1983 design.
[2] Who voiced Superman and Wonder Woman in the 1988 animated series.
[3] Approximately 650,000 units at launch.
1994 saw the first fruits of the Capcom/DC Comics partnership with the release of Superman: Shadow of Apokolips on the Super Nintendo Entertainment system. The game, produced by Tokuro Fujiwara, is a beat-em-up/platformer with some shoot-em-up elements similar to the 1988 Taito arcade game. It loosely follows the storyline of both Doomsday and Apokolips Now featuring the Man of Steel, Booster Gold, Superboy, and Steel as playable characters (curiously with Captain Marvel/Shazam as Player Two) fighting Cyborg Superman and Darkseid. Reviews of the are generally positive, if not average, and Capcom’s other big DC release ultimately overshadows it.
Justice League: Galactic Guardians hit arcades in the waning days of the year. Modelled after Super Street Fighter II and roughly inspired by both the The Challenge of the Superfriends animated series and the comics, the features Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Aquaman, and Black Canary battling the Legion of Doom (Lex Luthor, Joker, Cheetah, Gorilla Grodd, Black Manta, and Count Vertigo [1].) The game features such locales like the Hall of Justice, the Legion’s Headquarters, the Batcave as well as voice samples from Beau Weaver, BJ Ward [2], and Kevin Conroy. The game is a smash hit and heavily promoted in the lead-up to Superman 95’ and becomes a launch title for the Sega Saturn in North America come September 1995.
Speaking of which…
Nintendo is hard at work on Project Reality with Silicon Graphics. The success of Donkey Kong Country led the couple to delay their fifth-generation console to 1996 although strong holiday sales of Sega and Sony’s Saturn in Japan due to Virtua Fighter [3] and its anticipated release in the United States have caused some concern. Hiroshi Yamauchi insists that the new system stick with the cartridge format despite its competitor(s) using compact disc, however, SGI would use a more generalized SDRAM anticipating a price collapse while Nintendo would collaborate with Phillips on a sound chip for the new system.
The company would unveil the rechristened Nintendo 64 at Space World in late 1995, but the question on many minds was: would it slow Sega/Sony’s momentum?
[1] With Brainiac as the final boss. Interestingly, Capcom uses his 1983 design.
[2] Who voiced Superman and Wonder Woman in the 1988 animated series.
[3] Approximately 650,000 units at launch.
Chapter 35 - The (Clone) Saga Begins
Cross promotion with James Cameron’s Spider-Man increased the web-slinger’s sales to where they outsold the X-Men titles, but Tom DeFalco and Spider-Man’s editorial wanted to do something big to bring more attention to the comic. “Doomsday” and “Knightfall” were big sellers for Marvel’s distinguished competition and “Emerald Twilight” brought in a new audience for the languishing Green Lantern, and thus Spider-Man would see a seismic shift in his status quo come 1995. A suggestion came from writer Terry Kavanaugh to bring back the Spider-Man clone from the original 1975 storyline. Shooter himself was not pleased with the idea, but was more focused on Marvel’s endeavours in film and television to vocally object.
The clone Spider-Man, who now called himself “Ben Reilly”, reappeared in Web of Spider-Man #120 [1] for the “Power and Responsibility” storyline. This revelation angers and confuses Spider-Man, who is still emotionally reeling from his parents’ “return” and “deaths” who attacks Ben, but is later forced to partner with him to save the Ravencroft Institute from Judas Traveller and his host. Peter learns to trust Ben at the story’s conclusion, and the latter begins his vigilante career as the Scarlet Spider.
Tom DeFalco and editor Danny Fingeroth’s plan for the storyline was to last six months and reach its emotional climax with the death of May Parker’s passing in Amazing Spider-Man #400. Along the way, Mary-Jane Watson would reveal her pregnancy to Peter, who would then question his where his responsibilities lie. As Ben establishes a new life himself, Peter eventually asks him to take up the mantle as his main responsibility was to his growing family and would thus retire from vigilantism.
Perhaps the biggest surprise was where the storyline crossed over with Fantastic Four when Spider-Man revealed his identity to Johnny Storm to give him the news. Naturally, Johnny is both shocked and furious, but comes around when Peter introduces MJ to the Fantastic Four to explain his reasons for retiring. One of the more interesting aspects of the crossover is where Reed Richard remarks that Peter’s job as a freelance photographer was insufficient for a growing family and offers him a position on the team as an assistant, which solidified Peter as a part of the Four’s supporting cast [2].
However, Peter would have one last great adventure as Spider-Man when Nick Fury presents him with information that his mother is still alive and in captivity in Eastern Europe. Wolverine would accompany Peter on the mission as he reveals that the Parkers saved his life while he was still an agent for Canadian intelligence [3]. The pair rescue Mary Parker who would take May’s position as parental figure, albeit struggling to find a place in her son’s life as he missed most of his upbringing.
Fan reaction to the change in status quo was mixed, though generally positive with considerable media attention. Many on nascent Internet forums and newsgroups vented about how Peter Parker was the one, true Spider-Man. Meanwhile, others (including Shooter) remarked that Marvel was supposed to represent the real world where people grow and mature. Ben represented Spider-Man as he always was--the hard luck everyman--and Peter would still prominently feature in both Fantastic Four and the Spider-Man titles. Despite the initial outcry, Marvel was committed to stay the course as further changes loomed on the horizon.
[1] Three months later then OTL due to Cataclysm.
[2] Indeed, Peter’s decision to retire as Spider-Man to focus on his family may have... interesting ripple effects on the Fantastic Four in the coming months.
[3] Similar to the OTL 1997 “Flashback” issue, Wolverine was the first to congratulate Richard and Mary Parker on the pregnancy.
The clone Spider-Man, who now called himself “Ben Reilly”, reappeared in Web of Spider-Man #120 [1] for the “Power and Responsibility” storyline. This revelation angers and confuses Spider-Man, who is still emotionally reeling from his parents’ “return” and “deaths” who attacks Ben, but is later forced to partner with him to save the Ravencroft Institute from Judas Traveller and his host. Peter learns to trust Ben at the story’s conclusion, and the latter begins his vigilante career as the Scarlet Spider.
Tom DeFalco and editor Danny Fingeroth’s plan for the storyline was to last six months and reach its emotional climax with the death of May Parker’s passing in Amazing Spider-Man #400. Along the way, Mary-Jane Watson would reveal her pregnancy to Peter, who would then question his where his responsibilities lie. As Ben establishes a new life himself, Peter eventually asks him to take up the mantle as his main responsibility was to his growing family and would thus retire from vigilantism.
Perhaps the biggest surprise was where the storyline crossed over with Fantastic Four when Spider-Man revealed his identity to Johnny Storm to give him the news. Naturally, Johnny is both shocked and furious, but comes around when Peter introduces MJ to the Fantastic Four to explain his reasons for retiring. One of the more interesting aspects of the crossover is where Reed Richard remarks that Peter’s job as a freelance photographer was insufficient for a growing family and offers him a position on the team as an assistant, which solidified Peter as a part of the Four’s supporting cast [2].
However, Peter would have one last great adventure as Spider-Man when Nick Fury presents him with information that his mother is still alive and in captivity in Eastern Europe. Wolverine would accompany Peter on the mission as he reveals that the Parkers saved his life while he was still an agent for Canadian intelligence [3]. The pair rescue Mary Parker who would take May’s position as parental figure, albeit struggling to find a place in her son’s life as he missed most of his upbringing.
Fan reaction to the change in status quo was mixed, though generally positive with considerable media attention. Many on nascent Internet forums and newsgroups vented about how Peter Parker was the one, true Spider-Man. Meanwhile, others (including Shooter) remarked that Marvel was supposed to represent the real world where people grow and mature. Ben represented Spider-Man as he always was--the hard luck everyman--and Peter would still prominently feature in both Fantastic Four and the Spider-Man titles. Despite the initial outcry, Marvel was committed to stay the course as further changes loomed on the horizon.
[1] Three months later then OTL due to Cataclysm.
[2] Indeed, Peter’s decision to retire as Spider-Man to focus on his family may have... interesting ripple effects on the Fantastic Four in the coming months.
[3] Similar to the OTL 1997 “Flashback” issue, Wolverine was the first to congratulate Richard and Mary Parker on the pregnancy.
I like this version of the Clone Saga so far.
Is Ben also introduced to the FF?
Franklin exists by now, has Sue had her second pregnancy?
I can’t remember the OTL timeline, but it would be nice if Johnny and Lalya where still together- I liked her.
Hoping May’s death was as good and emotional as in the comics, it was a great issue they stupidly undid.
Peter would have investigated Ben’s sudden return, so no sign of the puppet masters yet?
Looking forward you more on this.
Is Ben also introduced to the FF?
Franklin exists by now, has Sue had her second pregnancy?
I can’t remember the OTL timeline, but it would be nice if Johnny and Lalya where still together- I liked her.
Hoping May’s death was as good and emotional as in the comics, it was a great issue they stupidly undid.
Peter would have investigated Ben’s sudden return, so no sign of the puppet masters yet?
Looking forward you more on this.
Me too, more slim and mean, no ubermegacomplications and a better sendoff planned for Peter and a much better and more in character decision for Peter...plus for long time reader him becoming a support character for the FF seem very natural as it's always been part of the 'extended' family.
Maybe for Ben creator, ITTL something of more...Sinister can be in program, so to kickstart a crossover between two part of the Marvel franchise that usually are not mixed so frequently.
Yes, and Reed Richard knows of Professor Miles Warren's work, but was unaware that he had actually made fully mature clones. He would (rightly) remark that Warren shouldn't have had the resources to make clones of Peter and Gwen.
That happened before PoD during John Byrne's run where Sue miscarried.
I have plans for Johnny and Lyta. Just you wait.
ASM #400 is mostly unchanged from OTL save for the final pages.
That will be another story for another day. I would prefer to keep Norman Osborn dead and I imagine Jim Shooter would too ITTL. Harry, on the other hand...
Well, Age of Apocalypse will be butterflied so I might just