The Iron Age of Comics: Jim Shooter's Return to Marvel
- Thread starter Pyro
- Start date
This is my hope as well. I'm quite pleased with DC's willingness to change the status quo as long as it's supported by story and character. Separating Dick Greyson as 'The Caped Crusader' and Bruce Wayne as 'The World's Greatest Detective' is a neat way to follow two very different approaches to writing a Batman story that previously had to share a character. It's also a great avenue to giving DC what's often hard to pull off in comics, a platform to write good mystery stories. Here's hoping DC is canny enough to hire a writer to write a full mystery arc (say, five to ten issues), publishing it as a miniseries (convenient for the growing market in trade paperbacks) before starting the next arc.
The image of a costume-less Bruce in silhouette, perhaps continuing to require a cane, stood before a crime scene under the banner "Return of the World's Greatest Detective" makes for powerful cover art for the relaunch of Detective Comics.
I hope this means characters like Cassandra Cain and Stephine Brown might be treated as a greater part of the team since DC doesn't have to bow to the "Batman is a loner who hates everyone" trope.
Two words Dan Didio, avoid him getting control of the company (and his viseral indescribable hatred of Cass and Steph) and maybe they get a fair shake this time round,
Honestly a lot of good would come out of not having Didio get as much power as he had before he left.
True but as a Cass and Steph fan that's his act that angered me personally. Also if we started listing all his bad acts we'd be here a week and derail the thread...
Chapter 19 - A House (of Ideas) Divided
While Spider-Man and X-Men had flourished throughout the early nineties, Marvel’s Avengers-related titles had stagnated in sales. Editors Ralph Macchio, Bob Harras, and editor-in-chief Tom DeFalco had decided that a massive shake up was needed to revive the title--with a civil war between Marvel’s superheroes. Some of the seeds had been planted in 1992’s Avengers crossover “Operation: Galactic Storm” where a splinter group led by Iron Man killed the Supreme Intelligence for his part in the destruction of the Kree Empire. However, a humanitarian crisis in Genosha would widen the rift within the ranks.
“Bloodties” was a seemingly innocuous crossover with the X-Men titles with disgraced Acolyte Fabian Cortez travels to the island nation to stoke a rebellion within its mutate population. However, the conflict escalates when Cortez kidnaps Luna Maximoff (daughter of Avengers Crystal and Quicksilver and granddaughter of Magneto) as revenge against the Master of Magnetism. Captain America leads the Avengers and its West Coast branch on a rescue mission, but some members refuse to participate as it would violate the team’s UN charter. Meanwhile the X-Men and Quicksilver enter Genosha on their own to stop the civil war.
Unfortunately, Iron Man arrives with his contingent of Avengers (including those who dissented against Cap) to apprehend Captain America’s faction. Tempers flare, especially when Cap calls out Iron Man on his hypocrisy after murdering the Supreme Intelligence and a vicious battle breaks out between the two groups. The battles become increasingly personal as evidenced by the Scarlet Witch vs Vision and Iron Man vs War Machine fights. Only the timely intervention of the X-Men turns the tide in Cap’s favour and forces Iron Man’s faction to retreat.
Matters grow worse when the fanatical Exodus answers Cortez’s challenge in Magneto’s stead. His supremely high power levels force the three groups to work together to both rescue Luna and stop Exodus from murdering Genosha’s human population. While the Avengers and X-Men succeed, the former are bitterly divided and the United Nations revokes the Avengers charter with several members resigning, including Iron Man.
Marvel cancelled Avengers West Coast with issue #102 and replaced it with Force Works, which focused Iron Man’s splinter group of more “proactive” heroes. Unfortunately, the crossover only caused a temporary bump in sales. However, it did lay the foundation for the 1995 event: The Forever War. If Marvel wanted to revitalize the fortunes of Captain America, Iron Man, and company, they would have to bring in new blood and bold ideas.
Interesting cross-over book idea there- a more intriguing and personal plot than OTL's Civil War for sure.
Any thoughts on whom is on which Cap and Iron Man's teams respectively please?
Are the Fantastic Four involved since they are reserve Avengers?
Does this replace Onslaught?
Hopefully the after effects of this won't be brushed under the rug like so many 'world shattering' events are to reset the status quo. Given Shooters famous use of a tight continuity between books I could see the ripple effects of this event being felt in most Marvel titles- even if it is the main character reacting to the news they have seen on TV.
Is anything done to help the mutants and mutates of Genosha afterwards or do the Heroes just go home to their Mansions?
Also a request:
Data from: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Thomas_Fireheart_(Earth-616)
Can we see this Puma series please as it sounds really cool?
Any thoughts on whom is on which Cap and Iron Man's teams respectively please?
Are the Fantastic Four involved since they are reserve Avengers?
Does this replace Onslaught?
Hopefully the after effects of this won't be brushed under the rug like so many 'world shattering' events are to reset the status quo. Given Shooters famous use of a tight continuity between books I could see the ripple effects of this event being felt in most Marvel titles- even if it is the main character reacting to the news they have seen on TV.
Is anything done to help the mutants and mutates of Genosha afterwards or do the Heroes just go home to their Mansions?
Also a request:
Data from: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Thomas_Fireheart_(Earth-616)
Can we see this Puma series please as it sounds really cool?
O'Neil is only editing the Batman line. Alan Grant is writing the same Bat-title he wrote OTL.
Cassandra Cain is most likely butterflied, but Stephanie Brown will be introduced as Spoiler in the near future.
Dan DiDio will not be working at DC ITTL because butterflies, but I could see him ending up somewhere else.
Captain America's Avengers: Captain America, Crystal, Scarlet Witch, Hercules, Spider-Woman, War Machine, Wonder Man
Iron Man's Force Works: Iron Man, US Agent, Black Knight, Sersi, Black Widow, Giant Man
Hawkeye resigns due to the death on Mockingbird in Avengers West Coast #100 and the Vision takes a leave of absence from the Avengers.
No, they were not involved.
Not quite, but the coming Forever War will replace "Onslaught" and "The Crossing"
I imagine there will be some references to it in Spider-Man and New Warriors.
The UN sent a peacekeeping force and S.H.I.E.L.D. is monitoring the island.
As for the Puma mini-series, anything is possible.
Apparently Chuck Dixon pitched having Tim befriending Ted Kord and becoming the new Blue Beetle when Kord gets an illness. Stephane would become Robin in his place.
Still unlikely. And an idea I'm unsure on. But it could be something interesting to explore.
Still unlikely. And an idea I'm unsure on. But it could be something interesting to explore.
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Chapter 20 - A Morph-enomenal Beginning for UPN
The rise of UPN created a hunger for content for the fledgling network, particularly for Saturday Mornings to rival Fox Kids’ programming block. Of course Stan Lee was more than happy to pitch a Fantastic Four animated series, which the network green-lit alongside Iron Man as part of the “Marvel Action Hour” hosted by “the Man” himself. However, the production on both shows were not without problems. Both Stan and Jim Shooter were dissatisfied with the quality of work from Wang Film Productions (Fantastic Four) and Rainbow Studios (Iron Man) and ordered a switch to Toei Animation and Koko Enterprises respectively. [1]
Most of Fantastic Four’s twenty-episode first season were adaptations of the classic Lee/Kirby issues and included appearances from Namor the Sub-Mariner and Black Panther [2]. It would climax with an adaptation of the seminal Galactus Trilogy, leading to the future Silver Surfer spin-off later in the decade. Meanwhile, Iron Man’s first season was a slightly more formulaic “good vs evil” plot where Tony Stark AKA Iron Man fought the Mandarin and his minion alongside Force Works [3]. Criticisms from Shooter led to an overhaul in its second season that saw an overall improvement in story quality that insured a third.
As successful as the two shows were, a new kid on the block would quickly steal their thunder: Mighty Morphin’ Power Rangers. Haim Saban had been trying to bring the tokustatsu mainstay, Super Sentai, to the United States since the mid-eighties and even produced a pilot adapted Choudenshi Bioman in 1986, but none of the networks would buy it. He would pitch the series to UPN with Kyoryu Sentai Zyuranger in 1992, who immediately greenlit the show.
The series followed Jason Lee Scott (Austin St. John), Zack Taylor (Dan Southworth), Trina Brock (Nakia Burrise), Billy Cranston (David Yost), and Kimberly Hart (Amy Jo Johnson.) Five “teenagers with attitude” recruited by Zordon to fight the monster armies of Rita Repulsa after astronauts accidentally release her from her prison on the Moon. While the show enjoyed fairly good ratings at first, it did not become a phenomenon until the “Green With Evil” mini-series that introduced Tommy Oliver (Jason David Frank) as the Green Ranger who became popular with the fans.
Mighty Morphin’ Power Rangers exploded after the mini-series with the action figures becoming highly sought after during the 1993 Christmas season. Paramount Pictures quickly ordered a Power Rangers film into pre-production with Saban Entertainment for a tentative Summer 1995 release. The teenagers with attitude would be the first salvo in what would become a war for Saturday Morning dominance between Fox and UPN, which would only intensify when Warner Bros. entered the ring.
[1] Thus improving the animation quality immensely.
[2] Introduced in the second second OTL.
[3] Consisting of War Machine, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Sersi, and Ant-Man (Scott Lang.)
Most of Fantastic Four’s twenty-episode first season were adaptations of the classic Lee/Kirby issues and included appearances from Namor the Sub-Mariner and Black Panther [2]. It would climax with an adaptation of the seminal Galactus Trilogy, leading to the future Silver Surfer spin-off later in the decade. Meanwhile, Iron Man’s first season was a slightly more formulaic “good vs evil” plot where Tony Stark AKA Iron Man fought the Mandarin and his minion alongside Force Works [3]. Criticisms from Shooter led to an overhaul in its second season that saw an overall improvement in story quality that insured a third.
As successful as the two shows were, a new kid on the block would quickly steal their thunder: Mighty Morphin’ Power Rangers. Haim Saban had been trying to bring the tokustatsu mainstay, Super Sentai, to the United States since the mid-eighties and even produced a pilot adapted Choudenshi Bioman in 1986, but none of the networks would buy it. He would pitch the series to UPN with Kyoryu Sentai Zyuranger in 1992, who immediately greenlit the show.
The series followed Jason Lee Scott (Austin St. John), Zack Taylor (Dan Southworth), Trina Brock (Nakia Burrise), Billy Cranston (David Yost), and Kimberly Hart (Amy Jo Johnson.) Five “teenagers with attitude” recruited by Zordon to fight the monster armies of Rita Repulsa after astronauts accidentally release her from her prison on the Moon. While the show enjoyed fairly good ratings at first, it did not become a phenomenon until the “Green With Evil” mini-series that introduced Tommy Oliver (Jason David Frank) as the Green Ranger who became popular with the fans.
Mighty Morphin’ Power Rangers exploded after the mini-series with the action figures becoming highly sought after during the 1993 Christmas season. Paramount Pictures quickly ordered a Power Rangers film into pre-production with Saban Entertainment for a tentative Summer 1995 release. The teenagers with attitude would be the first salvo in what would become a war for Saturday Morning dominance between Fox and UPN, which would only intensify when Warner Bros. entered the ring.
[1] Thus improving the animation quality immensely.
[2] Introduced in the second second OTL.
[3] Consisting of War Machine, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Sersi, and Ant-Man (Scott Lang.)
With X-Men on Fox and the other Marvel show on UPN does that mean the non mutant characters that appeared in the OTL X-Men show and the 'animated universe' do not appear, leaving the Mutants in their own Universe? With the non-Mutant shows unable to use the X-Men leading to a mutant-less Universe for them too?
I like this.
MMPR was going to happen I guess- does this also lift the TMNT up into TV land (rather than movies?). It would be interesting if Paramount or Marvel brought the rights to TMNT rather than Nickelodeon., esp as the Turtles could be retroactively added to the Marvel 616 Universe or cross over in the books.
I like this.
MMPR was going to happen I guess- does this also lift the TMNT up into TV land (rather than movies?). It would be interesting if Paramount or Marvel brought the rights to TMNT rather than Nickelodeon., esp as the Turtles could be retroactively added to the Marvel 616 Universe or cross over in the books.
To this day, fans continue to disagree on what "teenagers with attitude" was really supposed to mean. Opinions range from "a misguided attempt by studio executives to engage with a demographic they didn't know half as well as they thought they did" to "knows fight choreography". Truly devoted fans of the franchise have generally settled on "Yes, also that".
In spanish was left intact but the world itself was interpreted as with personality as they knew Will be into a world of danger
BONUS - Interesting Times, Interesting Bedfellows
"...Hold on to your ho-hos, Quarter-buds, this is where the dirt gets really good! My covert action teams have infiltrated the most secure Sega labs to pull out the most important word of the year: Saturn. Although EGM's head ed got some good stuff on Sega's 32-bit wonder machine, the Quartermann has the real scoop on what has to be the most scorching console to come. The big N's scorned partner, Sony, is teaming with Sega in their struggle for industry dominance. This new system will come equipped with not only a 32-bit RISC processing chip (similar to the one Atari is boasting of in their new mega-machine), but backwards compatibility with the Genesis. Strange times indeed."
"We reported that Capcom and DC have entered into an exclusivity agreement a few issues back and now we have exclusive coverage on the first fruit of this new partnership: Superman: Shadow of Apokolips for the SNES. From what we have seen from the stills provided to us, it appears to be a Final Fight-style beat-em-up similar to Marvel/Sega's Fantastic Four. It appears that DC is giving the Man of Steel a big push after the recent film announcement. What other games will come out of this alliance? A game based on Fox Kid's Batman: The Animated Series, or maybe a fighting game staring the Justice League?"
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"...Hold on to your ho-hos, Quarter-buds, this is where the dirt gets really good! My covert action teams have infiltrated the most secure Sega labs to pull out the most important word of the year: Saturn. Although EGM's head ed got some good stuff on Sega's 32-bit wonder machine, the Quartermann has the real scoop on what has to be the most scorching console to come. The big N's scorned partner, Sony, is teaming with Sega in their struggle for industry dominance. This new system will come equipped with not only a 32-bit RISC processing chip (similar to the one Atari is boasting of in their new mega-machine), but backwards compatibility with the Genesis. Strange times indeed."
"We reported that Capcom and DC have entered into an exclusivity agreement a few issues back and now we have exclusive coverage on the first fruit of this new partnership: Superman: Shadow of Apokolips. From what we have seen from the stills provided to us, it appears to be a Final Fight-style beat-em-up similar to Marvel/Sega's Fantastic Four. It appears that DC is giving the Man of Steel a big push after the recent film announcement. What other games will come out of this alliance? A game based on Fox Kid's Batman: The Animated Series, or maybe a fighting game staring the Justice League?"
DC Vs. Capcom. Calling it right now. At least, it should be IMO.