Tbf this tl is very fun
A tl where fascism is more prominent isn't very politically correct so Welp.
The Footprint of Mussolini - TL
A tl where fascism is more prominent isn't very politically correct so Welp.
Unbelievable that these people published Red Fuhrer but think your TL endorses fascism/racism etc. Do people not realize that depicting something isn’t an endorsement? Did the scene where freaking Anne Frank condemns Italian colonialism fly over their heads? I’m so frustrated for you rn. You deserve better. Good luck with those tests.
Deeply sorry my friend. They are crazy! Have you thought about kdf? I have a podcast of history, and would love to compare your reality with otl.
Hi Sorairo, long time listener, first time caller. I remember stumbling upon this timeline a few years ago, and crying my eyes out in the first few chapters-the beauty of a true Jewish fighting spirit spoke deeply to me, and I regularly followed along and re-read it every year or so. Perhaps my favorite timeline on here (aside from some of the space timelines but that's my space policy bias lol), and I'm sorry for your troubles with Sea Lion Press.
I did have a few questions I've had over the years if you do not mind answering
1. What is the approximate population of Israel?
2. Which former colonial holdings are part of France proper (as overseas departments) and part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and Overseas territories? I seem to recall Singapore being incorporated into the UK but I didn't see that in this re-read. And the Imperial Federation is essentially the UK's version of the EU with Canada, Australia, New Zealand and their other holdings, while the Commonwealth was a free trade group, yes?
3. Have any other nations made it to space aside from USSR, US, UK, Italy and China? (Be it satellite or manned)
4. You had mentioned social media came online about 5-10 years earlier due to a richer, more democratic Asia. When did the Internet come online, and did it still come out of the ARPANET project?
5. And as far as I know, United States territories are practically unchanged? I know you said no Puerto Rican statehood-are Pacific Holdings, the Canal Zone and Gitmo still present? Also did DC statehood ever exist?
Again thank you for producing a timeline that has produced a gamut of emotions and one of my favorite overall.
I did have a few questions I've had over the years if you do not mind answering
1. What is the approximate population of Israel?
2. Which former colonial holdings are part of France proper (as overseas departments) and part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and Overseas territories? I seem to recall Singapore being incorporated into the UK but I didn't see that in this re-read. And the Imperial Federation is essentially the UK's version of the EU with Canada, Australia, New Zealand and their other holdings, while the Commonwealth was a free trade group, yes?
3. Have any other nations made it to space aside from USSR, US, UK, Italy and China? (Be it satellite or manned)
4. You had mentioned social media came online about 5-10 years earlier due to a richer, more democratic Asia. When did the Internet come online, and did it still come out of the ARPANET project?
5. And as far as I know, United States territories are practically unchanged? I know you said no Puerto Rican statehood-are Pacific Holdings, the Canal Zone and Gitmo still present? Also did DC statehood ever exist?
Again thank you for producing a timeline that has produced a gamut of emotions and one of my favorite overall.
1) About the same, but 90% Jewish instead of 75% due to a lower Arab population and being a more attractive place for immigration, including from America.
2) UK includes all overseas departments OTL, Cyprus, Malta, Singapore, Belize, Guyana. France includes Gabon and North Algeria. Your understanding is correct.
3) The EU, Katanga, Israel and South Africa have limited space programs.
4) Internet was common knowledge by late 80s, made in joint deal between US and IF.
5) DC Statehood is forbidden under the constitution IIRC. The rest are not added for the same reasons as OTL.
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I would had imaginated Israel having something like 10 - 13 millions people since there is more survived Jews from Holocausts and surely higher birthrates. Futhermore after Second Arabian War things have been really peaceful whithc secured more if immigration, better conomy and higher birthrares.
Pretty surprised that SA was able to launch any kind of space program. And hasn't India any space programs? In OTL it has pretty much such things and ITTL I would imaginate the country planning manned moon flight since it is more prosperous than in OTL.
There were lower birth rates because there were less Haredi, and many of the Libyan and Bulgarian Jews stayed seeing as there were valid communities there.
You're right, I should have added India for space programs - but there's little appetite for the moon. South Africa is a highly militarised country and has had ICBMs since the 1980s so the rocket technology wasn't too far distant, but its just a military satellite.
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Deleted member 170721
Hi @Sorairo, really sorry to disturb you but after rereading the whole timeline I would have some questions that I have regarding this timeline:
1. Did the Iraqi still rebel ITTL 1941 and when and how were French Syria and Lebanon recaptured by De Gaulle (did they surrender in 1942-1943 like OTL Dijinouti or were they invaded in 1941 like in OTL)?
2. Why did Germany and Japan perform more or less the same as in OTL up to 1943 despite Italy not being in the war? Germany would have had more resources to invade Russia with and the British Commonwealth would be able to devote a lot more resources to the Pacific.
3. What's the situation with Battleships and Aircraft carriers ITTL like? Apart from the USA retaining the Iowas as museum ships and Italy likely doing the same in OTL did Britain and France also retain some BB or not? Do Italy, France and the UK (maybe also India) operate nuclear-powered aircraft carriers?
4. Is it safe to say that TTL Greece post Fascism is more or less an equivalent to OTL Austria: a well-armed and Democratic state that has more or less good relations with both sides that however by constitution can't join any military alliance and can't ost foreign military forces on it soil (except for the Turkish base on Crete)?
5. Why were Turkish forces allowed to maintain bases on Crete and what do they look like? Are they more like the British bases in Cyprus and Guantanamo Bay in Cuba (the bases are practically small exclaves of Turkish territory on Crete) or more like the Russian naval and airbase in Tartus ( the bases are on legal Greek soil and only the facilities are operated by the Turkish military and guided by a joint Greek-Turkish force)?
6. How is nuclear energy viewed, have there been nuclear disasters comparable to OTL Chornobyl or Fukushima ITTL and what is Japan's policy with regards to nuclear weapons?
7. Don't want to sound evil but isn't the post-Cool War too peaceful? Every period of transition of history of the title of Globa Egemone from one country to another (like the earlier rise of Asia ITTL) has always been constellated of conflicts and proxy war and TTL has almost none of it.
8. Does Airbus exist ITTL and how is the aviation manufacturing industry doing in countries like Italy, France, india and Britain/Commonwealth?
1. Did the Iraqi still rebel ITTL 1941 and when and how were French Syria and Lebanon recaptured by De Gaulle (did they surrender in 1942-1943 like OTL Dijinouti or were they invaded in 1941 like in OTL)?
2. Why did Germany and Japan perform more or less the same as in OTL up to 1943 despite Italy not being in the war? Germany would have had more resources to invade Russia with and the British Commonwealth would be able to devote a lot more resources to the Pacific.
3. What's the situation with Battleships and Aircraft carriers ITTL like? Apart from the USA retaining the Iowas as museum ships and Italy likely doing the same in OTL did Britain and France also retain some BB or not? Do Italy, France and the UK (maybe also India) operate nuclear-powered aircraft carriers?
4. Is it safe to say that TTL Greece post Fascism is more or less an equivalent to OTL Austria: a well-armed and Democratic state that has more or less good relations with both sides that however by constitution can't join any military alliance and can't ost foreign military forces on it soil (except for the Turkish base on Crete)?
5. Why were Turkish forces allowed to maintain bases on Crete and what do they look like? Are they more like the British bases in Cyprus and Guantanamo Bay in Cuba (the bases are practically small exclaves of Turkish territory on Crete) or more like the Russian naval and airbase in Tartus ( the bases are on legal Greek soil and only the facilities are operated by the Turkish military and guided by a joint Greek-Turkish force)?
6. How is nuclear energy viewed, have there been nuclear disasters comparable to OTL Chornobyl or Fukushima ITTL and what is Japan's policy with regards to nuclear weapons?
7. Don't want to sound evil but isn't the post-Cool War too peaceful? Every period of transition of history of the title of Globa Egemone from one country to another (like the earlier rise of Asia ITTL) has always been constellated of conflicts and proxy war and TTL has almost none of it.
8. Does Airbus exist ITTL and how is the aviation manufacturing industry doing in countries like Italy, France, india and Britain/Commonwealth?
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I believe an earlier reply mentioned the US still has their nuclear carrier fleet, but no other nation has more than one nuclear super carrier (the UK and China I think?)
As for the Germans having more resources-the British would not have been tied down with the North African campaign with a neutral Italy, and would have been able to try to oppose the Axis in other areas. Italian forces were also involved in other theaters in OTL, so ITTL you don't have those forces able to back up the Germans. I think it was also mentioned that due to the British being able to devote a few more resources to Asia, the fall of Singapore is seen as a triumph of British fighting spirit, rather than an abject failure, as they were able to hold out much longer against the Japanese (which lead to Singapore being incorporated directly into the United Kingdom later on). I think conditions in Burma were a little bit better as well, and I think the Bengal famine is partially butterflied away due to that (I think). Nothing the Italians should have really affected the American vs Japanese sides of the war.
As for the Germans having more resources-the British would not have been tied down with the North African campaign with a neutral Italy, and would have been able to try to oppose the Axis in other areas. Italian forces were also involved in other theaters in OTL, so ITTL you don't have those forces able to back up the Germans. I think it was also mentioned that due to the British being able to devote a few more resources to Asia, the fall of Singapore is seen as a triumph of British fighting spirit, rather than an abject failure, as they were able to hold out much longer against the Japanese (which lead to Singapore being incorporated directly into the United Kingdom later on). I think conditions in Burma were a little bit better as well, and I think the Bengal famine is partially butterflied away due to that (I think). Nothing the Italians should have really affected the American vs Japanese sides of the war.
1) All pretty much OTL.
2) Because the USSR is still a huge ask to invade and your forces are hampered by logistics, but the fear forced an early (and costly) Normandy landing that depleted German resources faster too.
3) Yes they all have nuclear power ships
4) No, Greece has terrible relations with the CIS - the 'neutrality' agreement has been hacked at for years and essentially means Greeks can't attend ITO meetings but still takes their phone calls.
5) More like guantanamo - the Greeks do not cooperate in the slightest.
6) OPEP's dominance of oil forced widespread adoption of nuclear power in the West to the boon of their politics and environment - no Chernobyl catastrophes because insane Soviet recklessness was impossible.
7) The world is far more democratic than OTL, which has massively reduced the potential for war. Even the CIS are Orbanite democracies where you can say whatever you want about the government (while knowing they've put their thumbs on the scales to stop you from changing anything).
8) Airline industry is far more developed due to the significantly larger Asian clientelle. Overtourism is an even bigger problem than OTL.
I got a weird senses about this TTL if they saw Russian invasion of Ukraine.
It's like this:
- South Africa would send their positive support for Russia.
- Israel publicly condemned the invasion and pledge to support the Ukrainian Jewish community and the Ukrainian citizens.
- China voiced their support for Ukraine and criticize the OTL China.
- Cuba: Voted their support for Ukraine unlike OTL Cuba when they abstained.
- US: Unanimously send their support for Ukraine
- Russia: They would hate OTL Russia and condemned the Putin's regime.
- Venezula and the rest South America do the same thing like Israel and other West does.
And what about other countries?
It's like this:
- South Africa would send their positive support for Russia.
- Israel publicly condemned the invasion and pledge to support the Ukrainian Jewish community and the Ukrainian citizens.
- China voiced their support for Ukraine and criticize the OTL China.
- Cuba: Voted their support for Ukraine unlike OTL Cuba when they abstained.
- US: Unanimously send their support for Ukraine
- Russia: They would hate OTL Russia and condemned the Putin's regime.
- Venezula and the rest South America do the same thing like Israel and other West does.
And what about other countries?
I don't see why SA would bother whole thing.
Othewise agree. Actually I can't see anyone accepting actions of OTL Russia or at least anyone hardly go side of OTL Russia.
Not sure about Russian fascists of FoM. They might are bit confused. In other hand Putin is man who try make Russia great again. But they too would hate OTL Russia because it has very warm view about Soviet Union and Stalin is seen as one of greatest leaders of Russsia. Futhermore they would are disgusted that Lenin's mummy is still on his mausoleum and Russia has good relationships with communist China.
FoM Ukraine would send immediately whole of its army to OTL Ukraine or at least as much as possible.
On that note, I could see OTL Russian opposition pressured to pledge to adopt the steps FoM Russia took like unilateral nuclear disarmament and giving minority republics viable as separate states independence if they take power.
Got two specific questions.
Was TTL Italy annexing land of Egypt of a straight line west of Alexandria an actual OTL Fascist plan or no? I remember very clearly sometime around 2014 seeing multiple (probably inaccurate) maps of OTL Fascist Italy's imperialist ambitions, and it included this exact same border as in Sorairo's story, however, I cannot find any mention of Fascist Italy planning such a thing searching through historical sources, even those written in Italian.
Sorairo, perhaps you were inspired to make this timeline's Italy-Egypt border based on these old maps I am referring to?
Also, were TTL Spain's ambitions in Morocco of annexing everything south of Ifni, and also acquiring enclaves in Casablanca et all more or less an OTL plan as well? ITTL Spain directly annexes their old Morocco protectorate like Ceuta, unlike IOTL were as far as I am concerned, they only wanted to make all of Morrocco a protectorate, rather than directly annexing anything of it.
I fully understand that this timeline's reasons for Italy and Spain getting such territories is different from what their OTL versions intended, but I am nonetheless interested in this, since I have seen this map of Fascist Italy getting all of Egypt west of Alexandria years before this timeline was written.
Was TTL Italy annexing land of Egypt of a straight line west of Alexandria an actual OTL Fascist plan or no? I remember very clearly sometime around 2014 seeing multiple (probably inaccurate) maps of OTL Fascist Italy's imperialist ambitions, and it included this exact same border as in Sorairo's story, however, I cannot find any mention of Fascist Italy planning such a thing searching through historical sources, even those written in Italian.
Sorairo, perhaps you were inspired to make this timeline's Italy-Egypt border based on these old maps I am referring to?
Also, were TTL Spain's ambitions in Morocco of annexing everything south of Ifni, and also acquiring enclaves in Casablanca et all more or less an OTL plan as well? ITTL Spain directly annexes their old Morocco protectorate like Ceuta, unlike IOTL were as far as I am concerned, they only wanted to make all of Morrocco a protectorate, rather than directly annexing anything of it.
I fully understand that this timeline's reasons for Italy and Spain getting such territories is different from what their OTL versions intended, but I am nonetheless interested in this, since I have seen this map of Fascist Italy getting all of Egypt west of Alexandria years before this timeline was written.
They aren't actual plans as such, though Fascist Italy obviously invaded Egypt during WW2, perhaps intending on linking up through to Ethiopia with Sudan which would mimic the Roman Empire.
The decision was due to 'bigger share of map makes you look strong' thinking from Mussolini, combined with how empty said land was, so it would create a buffer zone from the economically important areas of Libya. Similar thinking predominated Spain's thinking on Morocco. Franco wanted to be the number two in the Fascist alliance and consequently wanted a load of land to justify their claim.