WE MUST CLOSE ALL THE TAVERNS AND PLACES FOR PEOPLE TO MEET AND DISCUSS THINGS THATS HOW GOMMULISM SPREADS
The Fire Never Dies: Labor's Star Ascendant
- Thread starter Meshakhad
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- iww socialist america
Bonus point if later is captured by the ITTL Al Capone, and the former gangster explains him why, whenever you forbid something, you only give criminals a chance to make MORE money. And punch him in the face.
So something I'm now wondering...Since ITTL Leon Trotsky/Bronstein moved to the U.S. in 1908 and became focused and intertwined into the American Socialist movement how was he, in the build up to the Second American revolution, seen by the rest of the emigre Russian socialist 'community' if that had any major impact at all?
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There were probably a few people who resented him for abandoning Russia, but given that he was already in exile it was understandable. Had the Second American Revolution not happened when it did, and the October Revolution broke out as IOTL, it's likely that Bronstein would have returned to Russia (possibly at the head of an American volunteer force).
Bronstein is best known among Russian socialists as their perspective on American socialism. He resigned as editor of Pravda after he decided to stay permanently in the US, but he continued to write for them, reporting on major developments in American labor. His prominence among Russian socialists gave his (largely pro-IWW) opinions serious weight. The differences are subtle, but by 1917 even Lenin was being influenced by American socialism, viewing the IWW as a sort of vanguard party. This influence is also part of how the Anarchists took the lead, as Russian socialists put more emphasis on organized labor.
Interesting.
So how did Lenin conceptualize the SLP-IWW relationship if he saw the IWW as a sort of vanguard party with how intertwined the IWW and SLP were as an alliance but were still, at least nominally, two independent organizations not officially tied to each other?
Also, I wonder how badly Leon Bronstein's reputation is amongst the left in Russia at this point with how he ended up remaining in America and when the Russian revolution fails ITTL how that'll negatively affect his reputation, if any, in the surviving Russian emigre left.
So how did Lenin conceptualize the SLP-IWW relationship if he saw the IWW as a sort of vanguard party with how intertwined the IWW and SLP were as an alliance but were still, at least nominally, two independent organizations not officially tied to each other?
Also, I wonder how badly Leon Bronstein's reputation is amongst the left in Russia at this point with how he ended up remaining in America and when the Russian revolution fails ITTL how that'll negatively affect his reputation, if any, in the surviving Russian emigre left.
its not like the russians can see into OTL where trotsky built the russian red army. they don't know what was "supposed" to happen. they won't hate him (probably) for making a judgement call back in '09. If anything they'll be wistful, thinking of the could-have-beens. Oh, that Bronstein, what if he'd been in russia for the rising? What if we had General Bronstein of the Army Of Manhattan in Petrograd?
Lenin recognized that the SLP was, for the most part, the political wing of the IWW.
It will be a common alt-history topic, for sure.
This gives the German Empire a chance for fruitful trade agreements with the Reds once the war is over. That means:
- cheap supplies to both feed their population and rebuild the infrastructure;
- access to machinery and tech to develop and boost the German industry, both in their own territory and their own "subjects" in Ukraine, Belarus and Finland;
- a two-way way to further their talent pool and push forward technological advancement.
The Kaiser may not like Reds, but surely is a golden chance to take UK and France's place in the best trading partner with America (and he SAW how that was going to destroy his own Empire, before the US Revolution)...
All this is true, but must be balanced against ideas and malcontents the Junkers/Nobility/General Staff would really not prefer to have filtering back from there.
There already is a socialist movement in Germany: trying to suppress it could backfire and quickly gain ground for new problems, including a European Revolution; on the other side, try to cooperate with them and slowly "integrate" them into the German Empire government and infrastructure could be a very useful way to "smooth them over" and push away all ideals for a revolution in Germany, while stuck them in low-level functions and still manage them with old but still working ways...
Promoveatur ut amoveatur
95. The Desecration of Annapolis
…On October 27, the Red Army began the final major offensive of the war into the upper Potomac basin. This area had been heavily fortified for over a year, but the Reds’ successes elsewhere allowed them to bring in massive reinforcements. The Army of Cleveland slammed into Harpers’ Ferry, while the Army of Detroit led the assault on Hanover. General Hiram Wesley Evans[1], who had been appointed by Simmons to take over the Army of the Susquehanna, was forced to withdraw from southern Pennsylvania to defend Baltimore…
…There was worse news. The long-awaited Southern Virginia offensive began on October 29. While the Army of Knoxville pushed west from the mountains, the Army of Boston advanced past Williamsburg to Lanexa, threatening Richmond. And further north, Red Marines under Brigadier Butler boarded small boats. Their mission was the liberation of Annapolis…
…The Annapolis garrison was almost entirely Klansmen with little combat experience. They were no match for Butler’s Marines. Annapolis fell after only two days of fighting. The liberation of the Naval Academy was intended as a great propaganda victory, particularly for the Navy and Marines…
…Instead of jubilation, their reaction was horror. After the Battle of Miami Beach, the White Navy had come under great suspicion by the Klan. Not only had so many of them defected, but they had twice failed to defeat the Reds at sea. The commander of the local garrison, Major William Dudley Pelley[2], had become convinced that the Navy was infested with “race traitors” and “crypto-Jews”. On July 4, Pelley and his men had stormed the campus. They had brutalized the cadets and instructors, killing anyone who they thought had a vaguely Jewish name or appearance. The library was burned to “purify” it of supposed Jewish influence while other buildings were vandalized. Worst of all, Annapolis National Cemetery had been defiled. Pelley faced no repercussions from his superiors for this atrocity…
…News of the desecration of Annapolis sent the Navy – most of whom had been in service since before the war began – into a fury. King wanted to retaliate, but there was no obvious target save Washington. Fortunately, Strauss had a solution. He had two badly damaged pre-dreadnoughts – Louisiana and Massachusetts – that were not worth bringing back into service. However, he was hoping to reuse their guns aboard future construction. Bronstein, on the other hand, wanted them for land-based artillery. After word came of Annapolis, Strauss informed Bronstein that he could have the guns with his blessing…
…The desecration of Annapolis dominated the Red press for some time, but the real impact was strategic. Annapolis gave the Reds a beachhead in the heart of Maryland, right between Baltimore and Washington…
- From Red Star Rising: A History of the Second American Revolution by Tom Clancy
[1] Both IOTL and ITTL, Evans was a major figure in the Ku Klux Klan. ITTL, he would displace Simmons as Imperial Wizard in the 1920s.
[2] IOTL, Pelley founded the Silver Legion of America, a fascist organization styled after Mussolini’s blackshirts.
…There was worse news. The long-awaited Southern Virginia offensive began on October 29. While the Army of Knoxville pushed west from the mountains, the Army of Boston advanced past Williamsburg to Lanexa, threatening Richmond. And further north, Red Marines under Brigadier Butler boarded small boats. Their mission was the liberation of Annapolis…
…The Annapolis garrison was almost entirely Klansmen with little combat experience. They were no match for Butler’s Marines. Annapolis fell after only two days of fighting. The liberation of the Naval Academy was intended as a great propaganda victory, particularly for the Navy and Marines…
…Instead of jubilation, their reaction was horror. After the Battle of Miami Beach, the White Navy had come under great suspicion by the Klan. Not only had so many of them defected, but they had twice failed to defeat the Reds at sea. The commander of the local garrison, Major William Dudley Pelley[2], had become convinced that the Navy was infested with “race traitors” and “crypto-Jews”. On July 4, Pelley and his men had stormed the campus. They had brutalized the cadets and instructors, killing anyone who they thought had a vaguely Jewish name or appearance. The library was burned to “purify” it of supposed Jewish influence while other buildings were vandalized. Worst of all, Annapolis National Cemetery had been defiled. Pelley faced no repercussions from his superiors for this atrocity…
…News of the desecration of Annapolis sent the Navy – most of whom had been in service since before the war began – into a fury. King wanted to retaliate, but there was no obvious target save Washington. Fortunately, Strauss had a solution. He had two badly damaged pre-dreadnoughts – Louisiana and Massachusetts – that were not worth bringing back into service. However, he was hoping to reuse their guns aboard future construction. Bronstein, on the other hand, wanted them for land-based artillery. After word came of Annapolis, Strauss informed Bronstein that he could have the guns with his blessing…
…The desecration of Annapolis dominated the Red press for some time, but the real impact was strategic. Annapolis gave the Reds a beachhead in the heart of Maryland, right between Baltimore and Washington…
- From Red Star Rising: A History of the Second American Revolution by Tom Clancy
[1] Both IOTL and ITTL, Evans was a major figure in the Ku Klux Klan. ITTL, he would displace Simmons as Imperial Wizard in the 1920s.
[2] IOTL, Pelley founded the Silver Legion of America, a fascist organization styled after Mussolini’s blackshirts.
Well, at least Pelley wasn't screaming about how Jesus was a lizard alien who spoke to him telepathically from a UFO?
It think we can officially say that even the most pathologically Anti-Communist Navy Man will have no good words to say about the Simmons regime/KKK... especially where he can be heard by his colleagues.
Or the military - by now, most Klansmen are in the military. Theoretically, Pelley was under Pershing's command (this happened before Pershing was murdered). In practice, he owed his allegiance to Simmons.
IIRC it was mentioned that the Klan would be absolutely destroyed