The Anglo/American - Nazi War - The on-going mystery

I guess that Indian tourist and immigrants will have quiet hard time in Europe (well, what that is left), USA and Canada when Swastikas are important in their culture but ITTL these have even worse reputation in West. I could even imaginate that almost all people in the West think that Nazis invented Swastika.
Not like they don't OTL anyway. Also with India playing a massive role in the war I expect even they see it as perverted and at the very least avoid using Swastikas that look even remotely like the Nazi one.
 
The A4 can collapse fairly easily if it runs out of money. It is way behind the Indians on exploiting the ocean floor for resources while expending much more for space programs. The asteroid mining is the key, it works out and the A4 is in the back for the long term. The A4 can also collapse at the ballot box. A4 countries have high taxes, so far the electorate has, overall, been willing to hang in there, but all it takes is a couple really good political players to get into office on the back of the Tax Cut cash cow, and the funding could dry up. That happens, Katy bar the door.
Hm, I mean the A4 has pretty robust social services right? I think if politicians riding on a platform of Tax Cuts where elected in any of the A4 countries they'd sooner go for the welfare systems rather than the military, sort of like a lot of neocons. At least I can't see them wanting to downsize too much militarily; those orbital bombardment platforms are flashy, cool, and "cleaner" than nukes, and unless I'm mistaken those things are a huge reason the A4 have so much power to begin with.

On a semi-related note, I think there is one clear weakpoint for the A4 that they haven't had a chance to deal with in depth the way we have OTL, and that would be decentralized, international terrorism. Let's say some Germans get together and did ITTL's version of 9/11 in revenge for Stettin; the A4 could destroy the terror cell for sure, but what happens if a new one crops up independently? It would be the same kind of whack-a-mole game the OTL US has been playing in the Mideast for the past two decades or so. Just spitballing here, but if the A4 got into a quagmire conflicts like OTL's Vietnam or Iraq Wars, that'd probably do more damage to their roles as global policeman than anything else.
 
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CalBear

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Hm, I mean the A4 has pretty robust social services right? I think if politicians riding on a platform of Tax Cuts where elected in any of the A4 countries they'd sooner go for the welfare systems rather than the military, sort of like a lot of neocons. At least I can't see them wanting to downsize too much militarily; those orbital bombardment platforms are flashy, cool, and "cleaner" than nukes, and unless I'm mistaken those things are a huge reason the A4 have so much power to begin with.

On a semi-related note, I think there is one clear weakpoint for the A4 that they haven't had a chance to deal with in depth the way we have OTL, and that would be decentralized, international terrorism. Let's say some Germans get together and did ITTL's version of 9/11 in revenge for Stettin; the A4 could destroy the terror cell for sure, but what happens if a new one crops up independently? It would be the same kind of whack-a-mole game the OTL US has been playing in the Mideast for the past two decades or so. Just spitballing here, but if the A4 got into a quagmire conflicts like OTL's Vietnam or Iraq Wars, that'd probably do more damage to their roles as global policeman than anything else.
There have been movements in most of the A4 countries to greatly reduce taxes, even some efforts to get the various countries to simply stop the near constant "wartime mentality". They have, to some degree, worked in that tax rates have been lowered across the A4 from post war highs. One of the issues related to trying to cut "just" social services or military spending is that the two are far more closely related than IOTL. Transport is underwritten because it is all dual use, same goes for energy, food prices for staples have both floors and ceilings (think the U.S. and dairy prices in the 70s & 80s) to control military spending and ensure supply, and Universal health care is, at least in part, seen as a way to ensure population that can handle crisis (at least that is what the A4 tells itself as a justification, self justification is not limited to OTL). What really allows the current set-up to function is that the tax structure, much as was the case in the U.S. prior to the 1980's, prevents massive wage disparity. There are wealthy people, and there are poor people, but there is not the sort of scenario as exists today (Jeff Bezos would be a billionaire in the ATL U.S., might even touch 11 figures in a really good year, but would never see 12 figures). Obviously the really wealthy would like to see that change, the poor would like to see more social spending than a Mars mission. so far they have both been somewhat frustrated.


Terrorism is always a difficult issue. It is, however, much less difficult to deal with if you use the "Alfred in Batman" method. In one of the movies he talks about when he and some of his friends (i.e. SAS) were trying to chase down a terrorist/criminal who was using the forest for cover. When Bruce asks how the stopped him Alfred's reply is "We burned down the forest." The A4 and its allies, especially the Poles and Russians, (the Vietnamese and Philippine SPECOPS units are also not to be trifled with) are a good deal less worried about breaking a few eggs than IOTL. The A4 sees terrorist and thinks "Werewolves" (i.e. Waffen SS stay behinds). Really bad thing for the A4 to think "Werewolves", especially in Germany.

It is important to keep in mind that although the A4 countries look a lot like mirror of OTL's countries, they very much are not. The A4 leadership (and citizens) would see it as being more pragmatic, from OTL's perspective is is closer to callous. You use a stick, they use a gun; use a knife and they use artillery. The A4 really doesn't interfere much in internal policies for foreign countries short of genocide or aggressive international war, in those cases they just end the problem, generally by ending those involved, pick up their toys and leave.

The exception is Germany; there, to this day, there are "peacekeepers" largely drawn from populations that have a LOT of reasons to be less than friendly to the German people (even a couple generations after the War). Those forces are thoroughly professional, rigidly disciplined, and rather make Roman Legions look like Cub Scouts. Terrorists always require some support, both from the local population and usually from outside, at least economically. The population of the German statelets are unwilling (or too scared, take your pick) to provide support to terrorists, especially since the various statelets are actually fairly pleasant place to live, outside of the damage remaining from the war (good social services, especially medical care, low unemployment, reasonable wages) making "the sea" terrorists need to hide in very shallow. There is also virtually zero economic support from outside. The USSR tries to stir things up, but Communism is almost as discredited as Fascism politically, and the country doesn't have two rubles to rub together, the Chinese had a go at starting trouble conventionally and in both cases were stopped cold, so they have also abandoned the effort. India is a competitor to the A4, not an opponent, so there is no funding there either.

Terrorists in the German statelets are more or less criminal gangs and both the authorities and the population treats them as such.
 
So Germany is carrot and stick? "Play nice, stay down, forget independence or reunification and you will be rewarded. If you don't do that however..."

Also if the A4 is smart they can point to German history and teach modern German's how much more successful German civilization was as a series of small states. "United Germany was an unnatural catastrophe and your much better off split up.'

As to the A4 and terrorism I assume that's another result of a far worse WW2? OTL the wallies could feel they stopped the worst evils in history without resorting to crossing lines. That meant when lesser evil showed up the will to resort to extreme methods was never there. In contrast ITTL the scars of the war and what had to be done to win said war makes them much more willing to go to extremes, having seen what happens if they don't do this.
 
Honestly given how everything when ITL I don't EVER see Germany reuniting into a single nation. Hell aliens could invade the A4 will not allow Germany to even rearm. Instead they would be handed pistols and be used as cannon fodder by the A4.
 
Honestly given how everything when ITL I don't EVER see Germany reuniting into a single nation. Hell aliens could invade the A4 will not allow Germany to even rearm. Instead they would be handed pistols and be used as cannon fodder by the A4.
Aliens invading... Hmm. Anyone want to do a crossover with the Race (Turtledove) arriving during the middle of the Anglo-American/Nazi war?

Instead of invading Poland, I'l expect somewhere in the USSR, except that the Race would consider that area even more of a slice of Cold Hell (They had enough problems with Poland in the books anyway). Australia would be *much* tougher, as would the USA. I could *possibly* see them getting a decent toehold in Africa, (Chad and Sudan?), not sure about China.
 
Aliens invading... Hmm. Anyone want to do a crossover with the Race (Turtledove) arriving during the middle of the Anglo-American/Nazi war?

Instead of invading Poland, I'l expect somewhere in the USSR, except that the Race would consider that area even more of a slice of Cold Hell (They had enough problems with Poland in the books anyway). Australia would be *much* tougher, as would the USA. I could *possibly* see them getting a decent toehold in Africa, (Chad and Sudan?), not sure about China.
If its after 1945 then the Race loses as its pretty much canon they can't win once the Earth governments get reliable access to nukes. As such the A4 and their Empires probably fight the race off at hideous cost. Meanwhile the Nazi's have alot of angry untermensch who will aid the Race and due to the NKVD's final act are only now learning nukes are actually possible.

Probably Race control of central and eastern Eurasia is nodded through on the grounds they're anything but Nazi's and they get China by default but the rest is "that's ours." Stalemate ensures for twenty years by which point the A4 and the British Empire have caught up enough for war to be impossible for the Race to win and the A5 (with India) is even more tightly bound together than in canon. Result is probably a united human government by the time FTL is developed and the Race treated as a fact of life because they're still better than having Nazi's about.
 
If its after 1945 then the Race loses as its pretty much canon they can't win once the Earth governments get reliable access to nukes. As such the A4 and their Empires probably fight the race off at hideous cost. Meanwhile the Nazi's have alot of angry untermensch who will aid the Race and due to the NKVD's final act are only now learning nukes are actually possible.

Probably Race control of central and eastern Eurasia is nodded through on the grounds they're anything but Nazi's and they get China by default but the rest is "that's ours." Stalemate ensures for twenty years by which point the A4 and the British Empire have caught up enough for war to be impossible for the Race to win and the A5 (with India) is even more tightly bound together than in canon. Result is probably a united human government by the time FTL is developed and the Race treated as a fact of life because they're still better than having Nazi's about.
And with Race control of China, its probably better than AANW prime.
 
How difficult was it to reintegrate and rehabilitate the millions of slave laborers living under Nazi control (many of whom know nothing but slavery) once the war was over?
 

CalBear

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Honestly given how everything when ITL I don't EVER see Germany reuniting into a single nation. Hell aliens could invade the A4 will not allow Germany to even rearm. Instead they would be handed pistols and be used as cannon fodder by the A4.
I am now picturing masses of Germans advancing on the Martian Tripods wielding .38 caliber S&W Police specials.
 
I am now picturing masses of Germans advancing on the Martian Tripods wielding .38 caliber S&W Police specials.
Are you sure the A4 would trust them with live ammo? They'd probably be worried that the Germans would turn around and shoot the "real" troops behind them
 
Honestly given how everything when ITL I don't EVER see Germany reuniting into a single nation. Hell aliens could invade the A4 will not allow Germany to even rearm. Instead they would be handed pistols and be used as cannon fodder by the A4.
Personally, I think reunification could happen by the centennial of the end of the war, certainly by the end of the 21st century.
 
Personally, I think reunification could happen by the centennial of the end of the war, certainly by the end of the 21st century.
Only if A4 allows that and even then Germany wouldn't have much of independent. Altough surely A4 has some idea what they will do with Germany in future. They hardly can continue current way endlessly.
 
Just how bad are former French/Belgium colonies compared to OTL ?

I know they are crappy generally due to lack of democratic governance, it seems occupied Rwanda though is going to get a state building lesson from the A4 if I recall.
Yet Congo should benefit from Mobutu not leading, and most of the Francosphere should benefit from lack of a strong France "milking" their resources as far as I can tell.

Yes, the A4 probably assassinate "problematic leaders" but they are probably too self righteous to do any resource theft anyway...

"we are not colonialists, we help the developing world not be nazis!"

Yet I do think French colonies are crappy compared to former british colonies?

Didn't part of Mozambique get a spanking by the A4?

Also, does the A4 try and legitimately assist the economy if they are going to a democratic route to fix shit up? Like what aid are they giving to rebuild Rwanda after they gave it a spanking and put decent people in power?
 
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