BasicallyAs opposed to the CSA, the North Korea of the Americas.
Which TBF is actually a pretty good outcome for Korea considering the neighborhood its in!As opposed to Korea in this timeline...The uh...just Korea actually
Sequel de Mayo (Cinco de Mayo, Vol. II)
- Thread starter KingSweden24
- Start date
Truly Anglo-American Special Relationship - between two North Koreas, CSA in West and Nats Britain in East..As opposed to the CSA, the North Korea of the Americas.
The Northern Citadel: Manchuria 1912-1957
"...poor relationship with the Emperor nonetheless still hobbled him. While recovered by the spring of 1915 from his various ailments, upon his return Duan found a Manchurian civil service turned violently against itself, with murders of low-level apparatchiks common behavior between the various cliques that still feared a major assassination, particularly as the clique around Xu was fairly convinced that Manchuria's government imploding into bloodshed would either invite China to violate Wu-Sazonov and launch another attack across the Wall or a Russian intervention that left the Hongxian Emperor's regime even less independent.
Of course, Duan's one sole advantage that kept him from being put out to pasture immediately was that the most powerful clique was the one controlled by his ally and protege, Xu, and included the Ministries of Finance and Home Affairs. This left the "Xu Clique" entirely in charge of domestic matters from within the Cabinet and, for the time being, that satisfied Duan, despite it meaning that Wu and other rivals had the initiative when it came to dealing with the Harbin Office, so far as to frequently hold secret meetings with the Russians behind his back.
The tense, polarized years of the late 1910s were thus an era of cracking stability and increasingly stagnant governance in Manchuria. Kang's singular personality being gone and Duan badly hobbled, domestic and foreign matters were often pitted against one another; crucial army reforms were held up by Wang's penny-pinching at the Treasury, while Wu burned offers of bilateral trade deals that insufficiently cut him in and may have boosted the coffers of his rivals on the domestic side of the table. That Duan and Wu were now very definitively opposed created a wedge in the midst of Mukden that foreign diplomats were curious about how they could best exploit - and exploit they did..."
- The Northern Citadel: Manchuria 1912-1957
Of course, Duan's one sole advantage that kept him from being put out to pasture immediately was that the most powerful clique was the one controlled by his ally and protege, Xu, and included the Ministries of Finance and Home Affairs. This left the "Xu Clique" entirely in charge of domestic matters from within the Cabinet and, for the time being, that satisfied Duan, despite it meaning that Wu and other rivals had the initiative when it came to dealing with the Harbin Office, so far as to frequently hold secret meetings with the Russians behind his back.
The tense, polarized years of the late 1910s were thus an era of cracking stability and increasingly stagnant governance in Manchuria. Kang's singular personality being gone and Duan badly hobbled, domestic and foreign matters were often pitted against one another; crucial army reforms were held up by Wang's penny-pinching at the Treasury, while Wu burned offers of bilateral trade deals that insufficiently cut him in and may have boosted the coffers of his rivals on the domestic side of the table. That Duan and Wu were now very definitively opposed created a wedge in the midst of Mukden that foreign diplomats were curious about how they could best exploit - and exploit they did..."
- The Northern Citadel: Manchuria 1912-1957
I take it those enterprising diplomats are predominantly Russian? What will be Manchuria’s use to Moscow?
Well, I doubt Britain goes that far down the rabbit hole - North Korea's a bit more dystopic than where the TL seems headed for Britain. The CSA, on the other, probably lacks the self part of NK's self-isolating but may be shunned worldwide, leading to a similar if involuntary exile.
Amongst others, but yes primarily Russian.
Manchuria has all manner of uses to Russia. It is the backbone of their entire presence in the Far East, from where they can project influence into the Sea of Japan, the Korean Peninsula, and the Republic of China. Keeping a pliant Manchurian satrap regime that understands its place in Mukden is considerably more efficient for Russia than trying to absorb a populous polity that’s much more demographically alien than Poland or Finland, where they have enough problems. So Russia wants to make sure that Mukden stays stable but in case Duan’s illnesses persist, they want somebody like Wu Peifu as a reliable backup option they’ve cultivated a good relationship with.
Meanwhile - other powers see chinks in the bearskin and want to take advantage of maybe knocking St Pete’s ambitions in the region down a bit…
The world isn’t going to be super racially progressive on the same timetable as OTL so the CSA may just attract general apathy from outside the Americas, too.
For who? For Duan, no it won’t. For Manchuria? Wait and see!
Presumably it is annexed by one of its neighbor, which one though, we will have to wait and see.
Broad question…
Confederates I’m sure would on the one hand be horrified at not being independent and Black people having rights but would also be pretty amazed with what Atlanta, Miami, Charlotte etc have become today, I’m sure. That’s one example
I was more thinking about Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin and Mao.
I think Conservatives would be terrified of Russia and China becoming a mega Belgiums(if Belgium becomes Commie)
But I just can't begin to think what would people think of Fascism and Nazism.
While people might see Italy as a more secular France/Brazil, I can't imagine people's reaction to Hitler.
But would people see Union victory as ASB?(Especialy the leaking of plan 191 via cigars).
By Cincoverse standards Hitler/Nazi Germany would indeed be viewed as an aberrant, bizarre freak show bordering on ASB, particularly by Germans themselves im sure. Speaking or Hitler, Austrians also probably think that OTL’s A-H collapse is absurdly exaggerated out from what they will experience.
Oh, does that’s mean there might be an rump Austrian Empire existed after the collapse? Interesting.
Nothing says that the Austro-Hungarian Empire has to break apart into as many countries as it did iOTL. I think a key question is where are the Serbs in this fight (They are independent, right???)
I'm curious as to whether the Austrians will keep a port on the Adriatic. Unless the Serbs are actively on the winning side the way that they were iOTL, there is no way that OTL Slovenia will be controlled by Belgrade. For all Musolini wanted a fourth coast and talked about Dalmatia, the Italians seem like the British and French, having a significant number of subjects that don't speak Italian in an area connected by Land to traditional Italy seems like a tough sell. So I'm *guessing* that the Austrians control the coast all the way down to Split (though I'm sure Trieste will end up as Italian. Besides, the French will have *more* than enough colonies that they can be stripped of to make the average victorious Italian happy.
I'm sure Americans will be happy vacationing in the Italian Caribbean island of Martinica!
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