This is one of my favorite timelines, keep up the good work! Can't wait for the 2000s and the age of the internet!
Romanov Ascendant: What if the Soviet Union survived?
- Thread starter Justinian
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Why would the concept of nuclear war make people so afraid, after sixty years people would eventualy realize "you know this thing isn't gonna happen."
I think that if the USSR continues to persist throughout the 1980s-1990s dystopian science fiction craze, there could be a reinvigoration in a sci-fi movement inspired by the Brutalist/Functionalist architectural aesthetic that shows an accelerated dystopian version of Soviet socialism in the future (inspired by things like We, or 1984 or Gattaca), kinda like how Cyberpunk was meant to represent the accelerated dystopian version of Reaganite neoliberalism.
Even today, there still people worried about it.People don't think wholly rationally about this sort of thing. There's been enough near misses over the course of that 60 years, some by complete accident that being a bit worried isn't without justification
Chapter Five: The Conclusions of an Eventful Year
Justinian
Banned
FARC Rebels Operating in Colombia, late 1993
The Final Events of 1993:
Africa:
- The civil war in South Africa continued to escalate, as the SADF Junta properly fortified it's orange line with concrete fortifications, trenches and fought off numerous attacks of the Free South African Army. Capetown has managed to maintain its slight control over the FSAA because of its strong connection with the US, UK and French intelligence and special forces helped to train and arm it. The first arms shipments arrived to Capetown, and were given to it's government to distribute, helping to increase its control over the army by leveraging the arms to units that were the most loyal to it. The also elevated the highest ranking SADF defector (A White Colonel) to the rank of General, and made him overall commander of military operations, and have increasingly attempted to centralize their military. This process was slow, and left the Capetown government in a vulnerable position as the Junta launched successful raids, and pushed out from the orangeline, and created landbridges and lines of communication with many of its hold outs.
- The Somali national government collapsed after President Siad Barre died during heavy fighting in Mogadishu. The Somali Army generally disintegrated into into seperate units, often with regional affiliations, or joined growing militia movements. Overall the country had lost central government and has entered a state of warlordism and anarchy. A strong islamist political movement, emerged in the South of the country, while nationalist movements affiliated with some military regiments created a new regime centered in Mogadishu around the leadership of Mohamed Farrah Aidid and Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed. The two men had once been enemies, the former having led rebel units that fought the Somali Army and the latter a general in the Somali National Army, however as it became clear that anarchy was emerging and both were relatively equal in strength, except that Ahmed had heavier weapons and more crews capable of using them, Aidid compromised, betrayed the Somali National Movement, which had essentially collapsed in all but name. Ahmed was able to get the support of Libya, and the two are consolidating power to try and regain power in the countryside.
- Tensions are rising between Colombia and Venezuela, as both countries engaged in light border skirmishes early in the year. In Venezuela itself, the Junta has formed a Central Committee, and elected Hugo Chavez as it's head. A power sharing agreement was made between the most powerful generals, but it was agreed that a plan for reform had to be put into place and the power struggles ended. This was accentuated when suspected American and Colombian backed paramilitaries and special forces have been confirmed to be operating in the south, assassinating key local leaders, liquidating Venezuelan Army and Police road blocks and border posts, as well any targets of opportunity.
- The Soviets secretly promised to provide forces to support Venezuela, in addition to the economic support, but plan on primarily shifting the military responsibility to Cuba. FARC, now heavily armed, has stepped up it's attacks in Northern Colombia. The attempt to clamp down on the supply of cocaine has collapsed as the Colombian government has had to make compromises with right wing paramilitaries to deal with the resurgent communists, although there is evidence FARC has moved some of its drug production operations to the Venezuelan side of the border. The situation is becoming increasingly complicated, but the lack of controls has resulted in an epidemic of crack use in the United States that has begun to contribute to a serious moral panic; but to the Soviet Propagandist's delight.
- An attempt to pressure the US President to accept NAFTA failed vehemently, when President Perot, supported by union leaders and several major businesses (that would have not profited from outsourcing in the short term) popularized his view by holding televised addresses and town halls. Several prominent economists, corporations and mainstream politicans have called it lunacy or economic nationalism. However the US economy began to recover from the recession it entered in 1990, when Perot used funds systemically siphoned from the defence budget to promote American business subsidies, tax breaks and 'buy american' programs. In the face of an increasingly hostile OPEC and now the fact that the communists had consolidated control of Venezuela, the US domestic energy sector saw a massive uptick funded by speculation of an another wave of energy boom, but this only increased the price of oil in the meantime. Despite serious political gridlock, bureaucratic insubordination and political finessing against him by both democrats and republicans, Perot has managed to use a strong PR tactics that has resulted in his approval rating staying about 57 percent. He made the practice of publicly shaming the politicans or parties that impede what he considers his presidential mandate. He has also organized the Reform Party to be ready to participate on a large scale in the upcoming midterm elections.
- The American Space Shuttle Endeavour delivered the first module of the Liberty Space Station, with another projected module delivery to be made in early 1994.
- In Canada, a federal election resulted in the mass success of the liberal party, as Jean Chretien was elected Prime Minister with a strong legislative majority. Chretien platform included elevating Canada to the international stage, and trying to squash Quebecois separatism.
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The war in South Africa could really benefit Soviets by long term stoking of racial tensions in the west. By supporting radicals both among the Boers and Native Africans and making sure all crimes are published and spread across the west you could lead to a much earlier rise in racial tensions in US especially. Taking a lesson from Putin you could also finance far right and far left, the neo Nazis and black nationalists and push for inherently more radical ideas to split the society, such as reparations, immigration and changing demographics.
I think it’s also time to replace Milosevic and Saddam. They’re out of hand and unpopular. You can either give Yugoslavia someone else and curb the Serbian nationalism or federate it along republic lines.
I think it’s also time to replace Milosevic and Saddam. They’re out of hand and unpopular. You can either give Yugoslavia someone else and curb the Serbian nationalism or federate it along republic lines.
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It's worth noting that Perot wasn't opposed to the idea of a renegotiated NAFTA as his 1993 debate with Al Gore showed. He could find a useful partner in Canada in Jean Chretien. Chretien ran a populist campaign in 1993 against NAFTA and pledged to renegotiate it, but he was unable to convince Clinton to work with him IOTL.
From wikipedia:
"Chrétien phoned U.S. President Bill Clinton in November 1993 to ask him to renegotiate aspects of NAFTA.[146] Clinton bluntly refused, saying that it had been extremely difficult to get Congress to ratify NAFTA, and if NAFTA was renegotiated, then he would have to submit the renegotiated treaty again for ratification, which was not something that he was going to do just for the sake of Chrétien.[146] Clinton informed the prime minister that he could either scrap NAFTA or accept it as it was, and that the most he could offer were a few cosmetic concessions like writing a letter saying the United States was not interested in taking over Canada's energy and water.[146] Chrétien chose the latter, and sought to portray Clinton's letter as a major American concession that constituted a renegotiated NAFTA, though in fact Clinton's letter was not legally binding and meant nothing.[146] Only treaties ratified by Congress are legally binding on the U.S. government and presidential letters impose only a moral obligation, not a legal one, on the U.S government.[147] "
From wikipedia:
"Chrétien phoned U.S. President Bill Clinton in November 1993 to ask him to renegotiate aspects of NAFTA.[146] Clinton bluntly refused, saying that it had been extremely difficult to get Congress to ratify NAFTA, and if NAFTA was renegotiated, then he would have to submit the renegotiated treaty again for ratification, which was not something that he was going to do just for the sake of Chrétien.[146] Clinton informed the prime minister that he could either scrap NAFTA or accept it as it was, and that the most he could offer were a few cosmetic concessions like writing a letter saying the United States was not interested in taking over Canada's energy and water.[146] Chrétien chose the latter, and sought to portray Clinton's letter as a major American concession that constituted a renegotiated NAFTA, though in fact Clinton's letter was not legally binding and meant nothing.[146] Only treaties ratified by Congress are legally binding on the U.S. government and presidential letters impose only a moral obligation, not a legal one, on the U.S government.[147] "
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I think the violence in South Africa will make people be less liekly to support race-based ideologies and viewpoints now that people know their end result.
Not if you present it properly and play off both sides. Look at this beautiful blonde child cut to bits with machettes by savages who some wanted to give equal rights to. Blam
Look at this school filled with hopeful, beautiful black children eager to learn, burnt down and shot as they tried to escape the inferno, only for their race.
America is especially weak to that. This is a time period of changing demographics, increased immigration and unresolved racial issues. Cops still shot black people, justified and not. Amplify it, make them feel under attack. Amplify the immigration issue, push the white replacement and other bs, scaremonger. All the while your official stance is equality and justice for all under Communism. It's what Putin does after all.
dcharles
Banned
Totes.
Because typically, when people do evil things for stupid reasons and see the devastating consequences of their actions, they learn from their mistakes and never repeat them.
That's what the study of history has taught me.
First off, news in America, especially before the internet was filtered by MSM. Very few people would end up reading of consuming whatever propaganda the KGB put out. Also in the 90s people were more "color blind" racial tension was less of a concern, people cared less about race.
Whenever a group of people engage in a certain activity in excess, their is alwayse a backlash against it.
You are at the birthing point of internet and social media. Sites like liveleak or best gore can get a head start if Soviets have a vested interest in causing havoc. Anti police sentiment can also be spread even easier in a time before widespread bodycams. And it doesn’t have to be KGB propaganda either. Boers being massacred or vice versa is something that will be reported on by MSM.
Well this world is going to change a lot, South America I see is starting to catch a little fire if the CIA is already deploying their own death squads instead of relying on local help. I predict by the end of the Year a mass executions of political prisoners if their this worried already.
Now Somalia is a interesting case, Somalia used to a USSR ally and fought against the US backed Ethiopia in the ogaden war over the Somali majority region of Ethopia, then flipped sides with Ethiopia a USSR ally fighting against the Eritrean separatists and Tigray's till they lost to them and the tigray people's liberation front took over over the country, they and Eritrea were more Maoists style than their government. So their more a Chinese/US ally.
Now you have Somalia a collapsing provides many opportunities for both world powers, sure Ethiopia is friendly nation to the US, on the other hand the Saudis, Sudan, and Egypt always did try to weaken Ethiopia and supported their insurgents and a Islamic Somalia will never turn red and shows they care about their religion, needed after the Kuwait fiasco. It also helps Ethiopia recently lost Eritrea and their government promised states could leave of their own accord and is occupying Somali land since 1982 war. This would be unpopular but after a million and half deaths under the Derg people are just kind of tired of fighting so the Government could do it if the US offers a big enough bribe.
On the other hand the USSR could switch back to Somalia given their own links and the fact the US backed government was extremely horrible, try to reclaim some influence in the horn of Africa and can always have a card to play against both Ethiopia to show Sudan and Egypt they can protect them as well as have a card to play against Kenya.
A backlash against a sectarian attack is often very useful for sectarians.
Now Somalia is a interesting case, Somalia used to a USSR ally and fought against the US backed Ethiopia in the ogaden war over the Somali majority region of Ethopia, then flipped sides with Ethiopia a USSR ally fighting against the Eritrean separatists and Tigray's till they lost to them and the tigray people's liberation front took over over the country, they and Eritrea were more Maoists style than their government. So their more a Chinese/US ally.
Now you have Somalia a collapsing provides many opportunities for both world powers, sure Ethiopia is friendly nation to the US, on the other hand the Saudis, Sudan, and Egypt always did try to weaken Ethiopia and supported their insurgents and a Islamic Somalia will never turn red and shows they care about their religion, needed after the Kuwait fiasco. It also helps Ethiopia recently lost Eritrea and their government promised states could leave of their own accord and is occupying Somali land since 1982 war. This would be unpopular but after a million and half deaths under the Derg people are just kind of tired of fighting so the Government could do it if the US offers a big enough bribe.
On the other hand the USSR could switch back to Somalia given their own links and the fact the US backed government was extremely horrible, try to reclaim some influence in the horn of Africa and can always have a card to play against both Ethiopia to show Sudan and Egypt they can protect them as well as have a card to play against Kenya.
I diagree with you a bit, this is sectarianism, say a little African girl burnt alive because the South Junta is burning down the slums to set up fortifications here is is going to ''stir the hearts'' of Blacks oppressed around the Globe. Likewise a white getting butchered by a mob in revenge will stir the sympathies of Europeans.
A backlash against a sectarian attack is often very useful for sectarians.
Less then one percent of the US population was using the internet in 1993. This was before the WWW. Of those who are, I'd be surprised if the majority care. Also "racial consiousness" was less widespread during the 90s, a lot of these attacks would just be viewed as attacks against civilians.
Watch soc.history.what-if's primary replicating peers ban kremvax routing.
Latin America might suffice as a source of immigrants to Western Europe if the labor shortage gets too bad - as it is Spain is a significant destination for Latin American emigrants.
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