Q-Bam Historical Map Thread

Drex

Drex

Lothal said:
1707: Valencia and Aragon Proper
1715: Mallorca
1716: Catalonia
Basque Country and the Aran Valley wouldve still had special privileges according to wiki
Click to expand...
Interpreting the Decrees of Nueva Planta as some sort of national unification is getting things wrong. At the time, Spanish monarchs reigned over a collection of kingdoms and the unifying factor of a "country" even in pre-Westphalian times was the monarch, or at least that was in the Iberian tradition, since the Spanish created many new kingdoms across time. The decrees of Nueva Planta applied the Right of Conquest to rewrite the fundamental laws of the kingdoms of the Crown of Aragon (in itself no more internally coherent than Spain in the 16th century) by removing many but not all regional privileges. It just happened that the new laws were the same as those of Castille. So no, Spain was not unified by 1715, it was when a single monarch ruled over the territories, that being in 1516. And yes, the issue of Chalres also being emperor kind of complicates things, but he always treated the collective of Iberian kingdoms (Spain) separately from the HRE. Oh and the special privileges of the Basque Country and Aran were essentially only economical, as they are now.
 

Sharklord1

Drex said:
Interpreting the Decrees of Nueva Planta as some sort of national unification is getting things wrong. At the time, Spanish monarchs reigned over a collection of kingdoms and the unifying factor of a "country" even in pre-Westphalian times was the monarch, or at least that was in the Iberian tradition, since the Spanish created many new kingdoms across time. The decrees of Nueva Planta applied the Right of Conquest to rewrite the fundamental laws of the kingdoms of the Crown of Aragon (in itself no more internally coherent than Spain in the 16th century) by removing many but not all regional privileges. It just happened that the new laws were the same as those of Castille. So no, Spain was not unified by 1715, it was when a single monarch ruled over the territories, that being in 1516. And yes, the issue of Chalres also being emperor kind of complicates things, but he always treated the collective of Iberian kingdoms (Spain) separately from the HRE. Oh and the special privileges of the Basque Country and Aran were essentially only economical, as they are now.
Click to expand...
Was there not an earlier date? I'm just asking since between 1492 and 1516, there would have to be a particular color for the early Spanish colonies in the Caribbean if Spain wasn't a country yet, and I don't know what that would be.
 

Fulano

Lothal said:
Basque Country and the Aran Valley wouldve still had special privileges according to wiki
Click to expand...
Drex said:
The decrees of Nueva Planta applied the Right of Conquest to rewrite the fundamental laws of the kingdoms of the Crown of Aragon (in itself no more internally coherent than Spain in the 16th century) by removing many but not all regional privileges.
Click to expand...
If we go by the date when all the lands got unified laws, then Spain didn't really get properly united until Franco.

Sharklord1 said:
Was there not an earlier date? I'm just asking since between 1492 and 1516, there would have to be a particular color for the early Spanish colonies in the Caribbean if Spain wasn't a country yet, and I don't know what that would be.
Click to expand...
The same color as Castile. The American colonies were purely a Castilian affair, and no other territory had a say into that matter. The same thing with Aragon and the Italian territories (with the exception of Milan, as far I know).
 
Crazy Boris

Crazy Boris

Banned
Fulano said:
If we go by the date when all the lands got unified laws, then Spain didn't really get properly united until Franco.


The same color as Castile. The American colonies were purely a Castilian affair, and no other territory had a say into that matter. The same thing with Aragon and the Italian territories (with the exception of Milan, as far I know).
Click to expand...

Milan was never part of the Crown of Aragon, it was always in Personal Union only
 
DaniCBP

DaniCBP

Drex said:
Interpreting the Decrees of Nueva Planta as some sort of national unification is getting things wrong. At the time, Spanish monarchs reigned over a collection of kingdoms and the unifying factor of a "country" even in pre-Westphalian times was the monarch, or at least that was in the Iberian tradition, since the Spanish created many new kingdoms across time. The decrees of Nueva Planta applied the Right of Conquest to rewrite the fundamental laws of the kingdoms of the Crown of Aragon (in itself no more internally coherent than Spain in the 16th century) by removing many but not all regional privileges. It just happened that the new laws were the same as those of Castille. So no, Spain was not unified by 1715, it was when a single monarch ruled over the territories, that being in 1516. And yes, the issue of Chalres also being emperor kind of complicates things, but he always treated the collective of Iberian kingdoms (Spain) separately from the HRE.
Click to expand...
Well, this definition isn't entirely correct either. The "many new kingdoms" were sort of an administrative divisions like provinces would be later.
But the Crown of Aragón and the Crown of Castilla were two different entities, such as Ireland and Great Britain before the Act of Union of 1800.
The Nueva Planta decrees were sort of an Act of Union by itself, it meant that the Crown of Aragón as a separate entity, its laws and institutions were abolished and incorporated into Castilla; the Consejo de Aragón (its main government) was incorporated into the Consejo de Castilla.
As this old system of kingdoms and crowns wasn't necessary anymore, the sub-Kingdoms withing Castilla and Aragón became provinces, and the only crown became the Crown of Spain.
The main idea is the "subordination": is not the same being under the jurisdiction of a certain Kingdom while attaining some autonomy, than being independent on your laws while having the same monarch (like Hannover under the British king).
The 1516 can be considered as a "partial" unification, and the 1715 as the final and total one. It was a gradual process, not an immediate one.
Drex said:
Oh and the special privileges of the Basque Country and Aran were essentially only economical, as they are now.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they had economic privileges but were at no time considered its own different state.


Furthermore, remember that even today this is a matter of discussion in Spain, even scholars don't fully agree, thus I don't think we can fully agree here.

If the main idea of the question is due to map colors and outlines, my take is that from 1715 the whole of Spain must be in the same colour (except for the Basque provinces which may have a "autonomous" colour) without any outlines and the same subdivision colours:
jbp49zh9.png

Whereas, from 1516 and 1707-15, I'd say something like this options:
4.png
3.png
2.png
1.png
 
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Lothal

Lothal

DaniCBP said:
Well, this definition isn't entirely correct either. The "many new kingdoms" were sort of an administrative divisions like provinces would be later.
But the Crown of Aragón and the Crown of Castilla were two different entities, such as Ireland and Great Britain before the Act of Union of 1800.
The Nueva Planta decrees were sort of an Act of Union by itself, it meant that the Crown of Aragón as a separate entity, its laws and institutions were abolished and incorporated into Castilla; the Consejo de Aragón (its main government) was incorporated into the Consejo de Castilla.
As this old system of kingdoms and crowns wasn't necessary anymore, the sub-Kingdoms withing Castilla and Aragón became provinces, and the only crown became the Crown of Spain.
The main idea is the "subordination": is not the same being under the jurisdiction of a certain Kingdom while attaining some autonomy, than being independent on your laws while having the same monarch (like Hannover under the British king).
The 1516 can be considered as a "partial" unification, and the 1715 as the final and total one. It was a gradual process, not an immediate one.

Yeah, they had economic privileges but were at no time considered its own different state.


Furthermore, remember that even today this is a matter of discussion in Spain, even scholars don't fully agree, thus I don't think we can fully agree here.

If the main idea of the question is due to map colors and outlines, my take is that from 1715 the whole of Spain must be in the same colour (except for the Basque provinces which may have a "autonomous" colour) without any outlines and the same subdivision colours:
View attachment 838085
Whereas, from 1516 and 1707-15, I'd say something like this options:
View attachment 838091View attachment 838090View attachment 838111View attachment 838112
Click to expand...
Apparently Navarre also had self-government as well that was kept until the first Carlist War, so it should be coloured with the same colour as the Basque Country
 
theRTSchultz

theRTSchultz

DaniCBP said:
Well, this definition isn't entirely correct either. The "many new kingdoms" were sort of an administrative divisions like provinces would be later.
But the Crown of Aragón and the Crown of Castilla were two different entities, such as Ireland and Great Britain before the Act of Union of 1800.
The Nueva Planta decrees were sort of an Act of Union by itself, it meant that the Crown of Aragón as a separate entity, its laws and institutions were abolished and incorporated into Castilla; the Consejo de Aragón (its main government) was incorporated into the Consejo de Castilla.
As this old system of kingdoms and crowns wasn't necessary anymore, the sub-Kingdoms withing Castilla and Aragón became provinces, and the only crown became the Crown of Spain.
The main idea is the "subordination": is not the same being under the jurisdiction of a certain Kingdom while attaining some autonomy, than being independent on your laws while having the same monarch (like Hannover under the British king).
The 1516 can be considered as a "partial" unification, and the 1715 as the final and total one. It was a gradual process, not an immediate one.

Yeah, they had economic privileges but were at no time considered its own different state.


Furthermore, remember that even today this is a matter of discussion in Spain, even scholars don't fully agree, thus I don't think we can fully agree here.

If the main idea of the question is due to map colors and outlines, my take is that from 1715 the whole of Spain must be in the same colour (except for the Basque provinces which may have a "autonomous" colour) without any outlines and the same subdivision colours:
View attachment 838085
Whereas, from 1516 and 1707-15, I'd say something like this options:
View attachment 838091View attachment 838090View attachment 838111View attachment 838112
Click to expand...
I think the top RIGHT one is the best option, and that's the one I'm using for my 1688 Map
 

Sharklord1

Okay, new question. When Portugal becomes part of the Iberian Union (or whatever that period of Portuguese history was called), how do the borders and colors look exactly? Does portugal get the same type of coloration as Aragon?
 
DaniCBP

DaniCBP

Sharklord1 said:
Okay, new question. When Portugal becomes part of the Iberian Union (or whatever that period of Portuguese history was called), how do the borders and colors look exactly? Does portugal get the same type of coloration as Aragon?
Click to expand...
I’d say the same as Aragon in borders and coloration, as its legal status was the same.
 
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Coluber

Coluber

Crazy Boris said:
image.png


Here you go
Click to expand...
Awesome! The exciting trilogy is complete!
I assume that strip of land north of the Thracians is one of the Scythia minors, the other being in Crimea. Pity that the Sarmatians are a bit more difficult to pin down (no, I'm not blaming you). I also assume that this is the year 149 b.C.
Trying to figure out if those guys in the middle of the Arabian peninsula are Kindites or Tayy. Nice to see that the Qedarites are still active. Very nice to see Pergamon. Very, very nice to see Pontus.
Now I patiently await for the 520 a.D map - also the Ur-Nammu, third dynasty of Ur map. And the 1945 Germany on the verge of getting savaged by the Red Army map. And the Mithraditic wars. And the...
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :evilsmile: :evilsmile: :evilsmile: :evilsmile: :evilsmile:

edit: I forgot to say thanks. Sorry about that. Thank you very much.🤠
 
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