Okay then just say so instead of adding "Im having a hard time staying civil with you...",because I agree that would be an absolutely terrible result for geo politics in the future of this world, especially in the third world.
"Our Struggle": What If Hitler Had Been a Communist?
- Thread starter The Red
- Start date
Excellent chapter as always, The Red. So this is is when Communism is reigning ascendant in Europe.
Italy has fallen, as I’m sure Hitler wouldn’t send troops to the Spanish civil War if he had to fight Mussolini.
So the Italian Fascists are booted to Tunisia, Spain is likely either Republican or the Republicans were purged for Hitlerite/Stalinist Communists.
The war with France is also likely over, having fallen to the Red hordes. England stands alone and Communism rules over Europe. Spain, Germany, and the USSR, and almost certainly other puppet Comintern countries (France, Italy, and Poland) have been established. Maybe even Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria and Greece will follow if they’re not already Communist. This may be in... 1938, or 1939.
Italy has fallen, as I’m sure Hitler wouldn’t send troops to the Spanish civil War if he had to fight Mussolini.
So the Italian Fascists are booted to Tunisia, Spain is likely either Republican or the Republicans were purged for Hitlerite/Stalinist Communists.
The war with France is also likely over, having fallen to the Red hordes. England stands alone and Communism rules over Europe. Spain, Germany, and the USSR, and almost certainly other puppet Comintern countries (France, Italy, and Poland) have been established. Maybe even Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria and Greece will follow if they’re not already Communist. This may be in... 1938, or 1939.
As in Spinrad's The Iron Dream. See particularly the 1959 analysis of Lord of the Swastika by Dr. Homer Whipple of NYU. The main difference: Britain fell to the Soviet Union in 1948.
Could be what ultimately kills them, constantly having to put down rebellions and overextending the Red Army as they have to deal with Rebellions constantly and the USA and Britian chomping at there heels.
In a Commie dominated Eurasia I would probably bet that UK would keep a firm grip on india and that the US would absolutely pour support in to KMT China (or maybe just let Japan deal with it?). Up until you get the German-Soviet split analogous to the Sino-Soviet split, although which power the WAllies(+Japan?) would try to approach would be interesting. Nixon goes to Russia?
Wait, where does it say Italy has fallen? France would have to have fallen for the Reds to reach Spain but the Italians could still be holed up behind the alps.
Looks like Wednesday Addams.
The discussion over the last couple pages reminds me, like all "commies vs fash" arguments, of that Simpsons quote:
"Please, kids, stop fighting. Maybe Lisa's right about America being the land of opportunity, and maybe Adil has a point about the machinery of capitalism being oiled with the blood of the workers".
Actually due to the KMT's soviet ties and support chances are they'd pour money into something akin to the Reorganised Government of OTL.
We’ve had a few flash forwards throughout the story (such as this one) and one was Johann in German-occupied France in like 1946. So France fell during the war and we know from a flash forward that had Gerda’s daughter being a sniper/scout for the Rote Armee and she was in in the Alps just before the Germans and Italians went to war. And that was in 1936. Germany and Italy go to war in 1936, possibly as an extension of the Spanish Civil War. I’m not sure if The Red said the German Italian War was a precursor campaign to WW2 or the actual beginning of it.
But Hitler probably wouldn’t first attack Italy in 1936, no conquer it, then attack France and take that so by 1944/1945 France and Italy have fallen, most likely in the war’s first few years. Italy in 1936/1937, and France in 1939 or so.
Well with German and Soviet aid, as well as Italy falling to the Germans, then that could give the Republicans the edge they needed to win versus the Nationalists.
France probably wouldn’t send much more supplies than OTL due to wanting to shore up their own country’s defenses.
Through native soldiers and french administration. It's how they did it OTL outside specific military deployments. Senegalese Tirraileurs were some of the best troops in the French army.
Moustacheless Hitler be like: Me and the bois in our way to defeat the reactionaries in Germany and instating communism
Left to right: Maxim Litvinov, Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Gerda Muller
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I suppose some historians ITTL may argue that Hitler never attempted to grow a moustache as he was self-conscious of the fact it would never be as impressive as Stalin's.
She's been through a lot.
This is a good point and something I've wanted to explore. There does seem to be a bit of a trend of TLs where Communism effectively ceases to exist due to some form of contemptible act with even the centre left being viewed suspiciously in the aftermath but I feel like the implications of what that would actually mean often aren't explored as much as they should be. Whilst the Comintern in the Second World War ITTL will cast all their enemies as fascist and imperialist lackeys of the International Financier Plot but in reality that won't be the case*, there will be liberal democracies fighting against them as well andin those countries there will be centre-left movements who will have to face some very tough decisions, both from external and internal factors. This will go even more so for the liberal democracies who find themselves marching in lockstep with the Comintern, willingly or not.
* I did consider a purely Communist vs Fascist war in early concepts but felt that would get a bit too edgy and simplistic.
Also pretty unrealistic, considering how Western democracies like Britian and France would totally freak if the Germans and Soviets started conquering countries right and left.
Frankly I can't see how the Germans do anything more than take Austria against Italy in 1936. The Wehrmacht in 1936 was a joke and that was without the officers purged, and the Italian army in 1936 has been equipped with decently modern armaments. I cant see Italy falling without extensive Soviet involvement.
Actually it was more going to be that there were no major powers that hadn't gone either Communist or Fascist, similar to the global war that breaks out after the Second Revolt in Jack London's The Iron Heel.
That's most likely true of OTL, and a similar scenario is investigated in @EdT's excellent A Greater Britain but the Wehrmacht isn't the Rote Armee and things in 1936 will be quite different from our time, so the parallel doesn't work that well.
Ah I see. I guess I could see France going fascist if Germany went Communist and Spain look like its about to but Britan going Fascist would be really pushing it.