"Our Struggle": What If Hitler Had Been a Communist?
- Thread starter The Red
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I suppose it's a combination of a flawed institution and the legacy which has stemmed for it, which for many on the left feels like a betrayal or at the very least a failed experiment ITTL.
It's clear that Hitler isn't acting in good faith here but the extent to which that should be acted on would seem to depend on constitency, or here perhaps how much constitency the republic actually deserves. This is the institution which almost enabled a fascist takeover beforehand, twice, only to be saved by the workers both times, only to then have the bourgeois parties exploit its inner workings to prevent any real progress from being made to further the goals of socialism. If Hitler is now making a mockery out of the republic's processes to further this agenda then there are a lot of non-Communists jaded enough at this stage to wonder to what extent that's a bad thing, other than it shouldn't be a strictly Communist affair. Beyond that there is the ongoing emergency circumstances and there's a certain allure to the hard men who make hard decisions in the name of things we happen to believe in which cuts across the political spectrum.
Not for everyone of course, and many on the left are genuinely horrified with what is clearly a dictatorship in the making. The problem is a lot of them get associated with the bourgeois compromises of the past.
To quote the White Rose, 'We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience.'
For some reason I feel Ernst would be a bit more suspicious of an admirer randomly showing up to spend time with him.
"Is that an icepick in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"
Somehow, I've got the feeling Ernst is going to survive for a while longer; he's managed to do it so far. Besides, would Hitler be so petty as to order a hit on him? Ernst is not that important, right?
Hitler may not but Gerda might. She’s arguably a major figure within the DAR, at least publicly as she was with Hitler in Moscow for the flash forward.
She’s Hitler right hand comrade. Curious as to what she would be in the DAR.
So any thoughts on how Red!Hitler's leadership style will differ from OTL Hitler? From what I've read OTL Hitler deliberately played his subordinates off of each other and praised murderous ambitious types due to his social darwinistic beliefs.
I assume that's going to be absent here.
I assume that's going to be absent here.
Hell, Stalin did. I see no reason why Hitler wouldn’t.
The major changes in TTL vs. OTL seems to be that Red Hitler has spent a significant part of his adult life involved in clandestine revolutionary cells. It's a lifestyle that will definitely exaggerate his paranoia towards subordinates, since he'll have spent years wondering who among him is a traitor or informant. I also think it's worth looking at historical Communist leaders for comparison.
Red Hitler - son of civil servant, abusive father, harrowing military career, art career, revolutionary cell leader, political leader
Lenin - son of well educated middle class family, politically radicalized at University, political activist, exile, political leader
Stalin - son of cobbler, abusive father, politically radicalized at Seminary, revolutionary cell leader, political leader
Tito - son of farmer, distinguished military career, revolutionary activist, partisan leader, political leader
Mao - son of prosperous peasant, politically radicalized at University, revolutionary leader, political leader
Kim Il-Sung - son of peasant, political activist, partisan leader, political leader
Ho Chi Minh - son of civil servant, worked menial jobs across world, politically radicalized at University, revolutionary leader, political leader
Fidel Castro - son of prosperous farmer, radicalized at University, exile, revolutionary leader, political leader
I could see Red Hitler combining some leadership traits of Stalin and Tito. Like Stalin, he grew up in an abusive household and led an clandestine revolutionary cell (paranoid, sees any ambition displayed by subordinates as potentially threatening, experience rooting out informants). Like Tito, he served extensively in WWI and will have picked up military customs (also Tito was described as monarchial in how he presented himself).
I think this Hitler will be somewhere between a less paranoid Stalin and less self-confidant Tito. Not paranoid enough to go full Great Purge, but will resent ambitious and talented subordinates and try to undercut their rise as much as he can.
Chapter CXXIV
For my part I'm not angry to see so many generals arrive at the Chamber. They will doubtless explain to you what special means they employed in being so constantly beaten. There must be a secret to this. Perhaps they'll reveal it to us. This won’t give us back Alsace and Lorraine, but at least we'll know why we lost them. They'll probably end up by confiding to us that if they lost so many battles it’s because they didn’t know how to make war, and this will be an excellent opportunity for us to cry out, we enemies of human butchery: “Well, if you don’t know how to do it, then don’t do it any more!”
~ Henri Rochefort, For a citizens' army
~ Henri Rochefort, For a citizens' army
42ème Division d'Infanterie Headquarters, Franco-German Border; July 1934
It was a balmy summer evening, one in which the troops of the French army stationed on the border might have hoped for a quiet night of sleep in the years gone by. The establishment of the Marechal’s new regime and the subsequent German reoccupation of the Rhineland had changed all that. Either side of the border was now restless, there were already rumours of small exchanges of gunfire which couldn’t be placed. Now those who watched over the developing situation were required to sleep with one eye open, the only consolation being that the same could be expected of their superiors.
Colonel Charles de Gaulle did not resent having far more sleepless nights over the past few months, not when the cause was his newfound role as Director of Strategic & Tactical Development. It may have been a long-winded title but it gave him a remit to overturn a decade of malaise within the French army and its supporting infrastructure wherever he found it. In achieving this aim, he would be able to put his theories of armoured warfare up against the Germans, preferably sooner rather than later.
It was for this reason that he was patrolling the border on this Summer night, inspecting the troops and surveying their readiness to see how it could be improved. He had found many shortcomings and almost many excuses from the local Commandants as to why they hadn’t been addressed.
The troops themselves were alert in spite of his time of arrival, his visit was meant to be a surprise but it had become widely known that an improvement campaign was underway and as such many units seemed ready for his appearance. All the same there were certain difficulties that couldn’t be fixed overnight and these were the ones de Gaulle was interested in.
The local Chef de bataillon whose office in which he now sat appeared more interested in diverting any blame away from himself. He eyed the medals from the last war proudly displayed on the desk whilst receiving the non-commissioned officer’s explanations.
“It’s a matter of logistics Colonel, the men are happy to have a go at the Germans but they don’t feel certain as to whether they will be properly supported when the time comes. They will hold well enough but they might be hesitant to charge across the border.” The local Commandant tried to explain.
The man was older than de Gaulle by a number of years but in spite of his pride in having served in the last war he appeared to have grown complacent in his rank ever since, to the Colonel’s horror the man had neither a phone nor a radio in his office.
“It is worse than that Commandant, you will not charge across the border regardless of your situation if you are unable to properly maintain your vehicles. We are embarking on a new form of warfare in this army, once which builds on the lessons of the last war rather than merely basking in the victory it wrought. We will use the expertise of our industry and the ingenuity of our troops to create methods which will allow us to overcome the greater numbers the Germans or Russians may bring to bear.”
The Commandant seemed genuinely happy to hear such an appeal, his eyes lighting up at the thought of his younger days.
“I served in the last offensives of the war Colonel and to hear that we as a nation are finally developing upon those lessons brings me great relief. We routed the Germans then and we will do so again.”
“But that relies on veterans such as you and I.” De Gaulle stressed, trying to remove the Commandant from the warm memories of victory. “The men under your command are not veterans, they are conscripts and that is why they need to have battle-hardened centurions to make them the veterans of the future!”
The Commandant had started to agree with the Colonel before the light in the office grew bright for a moment. The two men sat there hesitantly before things seemed to have returned to normal. Yet from the window the night appeared to have grown darker.
There was an echo from outside almost like a buzzsaw at a timber yard. Then came a sound like fireworks, as if someone hadn’t been informed that this year's Bastille Day celebrations had been cancelled. However the shrieking became far more directed and was soon being joined by a human chorus.
The men de Gaulle had spent the night inspecting were shouting amongst themselves, the Colonel and the Commandant looked to one another in confusion before exiting the office only to see chaos unfolding around them.
Tracer fire hung over the landscape to the east in all colours, illuminating the darkness in a vicious display of white, orange, green and yellow. De Gaulle recognised their own troops beginning to reply from afar as red flashes joined them with the Fusil-mitrailleurs opening up. De Gaulle himself wasn’t able to respond just yet.
He had believed there was time to wrinkle out the problems in the French army and he had been striving to do so as quickly as possible but this was far too early. De Gaulle wondered if the Germans had lost their minds, their leaked reports had shown how weak they were. Was this truly the beginning of the German attack the coup had been planned to pre-empt or was it all just a misunderstanding? Or perhaps a madman’s obsession being borne out?
The firing of a gun close to his ear brought the Colonel back out of his head, the Commandant was firing his pistol into the air to rally his bewildered men.
“Calm yourselves!” he shouted to them and perhaps to de Gaulle as well. “Alright then, little soldiers, this may be it. It wasn’t what we were expecting tonight my brothers but it is what we are faced with. So, to arms, we go up against the Boche once more, for God, for the Marechal, and France. France above all!”
The Commandant spoke with a fire that de Gaulle didn’t recognise from the man making excuses a moment ago but he seemed to be in his element amongst the approaching gunfire. His troops rallied around that energy, moved to take up arms and advance. They did so with a determination de Gaulle feared they did not have.
Behind them, artillery opened up and shells went soaring above their heads into the flurry of colours ahead of them before large explosions joined the cacophony of violence.
Colonel De Gaulle flinched as the junior officer embraced him with a look of grim resignation. At that moment he noticed the fear in the man’s eyes. He was as scared as the rest of them had been.
“As it was in the last war,” he said nonetheless, “it shall be again.”
---
The photo is Fireworks at Longchamps by Brassaï
...What.
World War Two has already begun?
It's so sudden... But that's what happens in real life too, right? You are at peace, until one day you aren't.
Unless it has been some kind of misunderstanding.
World War Two has already begun?
It's so sudden... But that's what happens in real life too, right? You are at peace, until one day you aren't.
Unless it has been some kind of misunderstanding.
It is a possibility. Some kind of misfire, perhaps?
Were I to guess, both belligerents running out of steam in the first few weeks of the "war." I don't think even Hitler is quite ruthless/stupid enough to pick a fight with France to consolidate his new regime, but a good diplomatic incident against the eternal rival would be a good infusion of political capital for him... Especially if there's ongoing internal dissent about the idea of making military production the centerpiece of the new economy.
Especially after those reports of unpreparedness. No, this reeks to me of a false flag operation from France.
Although some in the regime will likely disagree Ernst is probably going to be more of a loose end if it comes to doing hits on German exiles and any foreign intelligence network the DAR would be looking to set-up would need to set down roots before going after targets at all. It might put a dampener on him attempting to climb the ladder in the exile community however. Unless it's better to be conspicuous in such a scenario.
It's not too long before I go into this in more detail but you're right, the way the DAR will be set-up won't really be able to accomodate overlapping remits or loose delegations of authority. At least not deliberately. The vague ethos of 'working towards the Fuhrer' won't really be practical when you've got the economy and society itself being reordered to follow certain aims.
This is a very in-depth and interesting analysis and you make some excellent points. Some have theorised that German Ideology may have a certain kinship with Maoism due to the Red Front's initial incarnation as a revolutionary cell fighting a guerilla war but the same could also be said in relation to Tito (whose moniker, after all, just refers to his tendency to give blunt, straightforward orders) and the Red Front's resistance had far more of an urban element which would give it more of a kinship to Stalin's early revolutionary activities. I wouldn't say ITTL's Hitler lacks Tito's self-confidence but there is probably less of a sense of grandeur. Of course that doesn't preclude a messiah complex; the German worker has a historic role in human history and it is for this reason that the international financier plot must be destroyed lest it continue to keep him and people like him from fulfilling it. If Hitler happens to believe himself to be the best person scientifically to lead that charge for the moment then that's just dialectical materialism in action.
It's a bit too early for the balloon to go up just yet but with soldiers eyeing each other on either side of the border and with both regimes baring their teeth a flare-up of violence was bound to occur. Even if it stays relegated to a skirmish it's something that both regimes can exploit to consolidate their own power, unless they miscalculate and bite off more than they can chew.
Bookmark1995
Banned
Uh....I think yes, Hitler will inevitably see himself as the man who will lead the revolution.
Like I said, Hitler in any world will be a Hitler who puts his...ideology above everything, including the sanctity of human life.
If he was ruling over a backward Germany, he would definitely starve the peasants to create industry.
"Stop doubting you silly Trade Unionist/Farmer, The Boche/French are coming, we need to rally behind the Marcheal/Volksfurher right now!"
Speaking of farmers, I am very curious as to the general policy on Rural Areas. On one hand unlike Russia and China, the regime most likely won't feel the need to "Pull your bootstraps" up in the most horrific and inefficient way possible. On the other hand, the Farmers and Rural class are the most anti Communist of Germany's lower classes which may cause the regime to think that... viguorus reeducation, is nessicarry. Certainly will be interesting to say the least.
Another interesting aspect of TTL Hitler is his lack of real connection to either the working class or radical academia. Most Communist leaders began as either a radical university student or a working class organizer, but Hitler is going from WWI footsoldier to extremely active insurgent. He probably sneers at snooty radical academics, and he probably doesn't feel completely at home among the real proletariat. His closest sympathy will probably be for the soldiers. This will most likely lead to him meddling with and micromanaging military strategy as OTL, probably in a catastrophic way at some point.
The world is changing. Who now has the strength to stand against the armies of Germany and Russia, to stand against the might of Stalin and Hitler in the union of the Red Banners. Together, General Secretary, we shall conquer this continent of Europe. The old world will burn in the fires of industry. Their palaces will fall. A new order will rise, we will drive the machine of war with the sword and the bayonet and the iron fist of the proletariat!
Hence the role of Volksfuhrer within the DAR. The system itself doesn't require such a role and it's stressed as being a situational and temporary measure for the duration of the emergency but it could also be seen as Hitler using the title to highlight his own importance to the revolution alongside emphasising his own power.
Broadly: Junkerland in the farmer's hand, root out any weeds who would have it otherwise. But there were will also be a move away from peasant proprietorship towards agrarian socialism, as will be outlined in the state plan.
I suppose Hitler's answer to that would be that he fought alongside the working class in the trenches of the great imperialist slaughter, then in expropriating the capitalists of Munich, battling against the Freikorps in defence of the Bavarian Soviet and ultimately leading the proletariat of the Ruhr in casting off the French yoke. You're right in that he would sneer at overly detached academics for being unwilling to get their hands dirty but in the same sense he doesn't have a good idea of the unconscious class war which grinds on in every day working class conditions, just his own heightened and somewhat stilted perspective of white guards, wreckers and spies. Of course he'd likely argue that being unable to see the velvet glove for the iron fist isn't inhibitive for a revolutionary but it does perhaps skew his priorities.
