Ha, I've been wondering that myself actually!
I do have another radicalising event up my sleeve but I've yet to decide whether that will trigger the civil war itself, or just continue pushing people to the extremes.
Nothing to Lose but Your Chains! / a German Revolution TL
- Thread starter Teutonic_Thrash
- Start date
I do have another radicalising event up my sleeve but I've yet to decide whether that will trigger the civil war itself, or just continue pushing people to the extremes.
Thomas1195
Banned
Nerf Stressmann or have him also join the DDP (he was among the more left-wing members of DVP IOTL) would help nerf the DVP and strengthen the DDP.
Last edited:
Thomas1195
Banned
OTOH, the DNVP is a true threat because their base have much more institutional power way beyond their seat number. They had disproportionately strong support from aristocrats, big industrialists, army officers, civil servants, gymnasium teachers, university professors, and other middle-class people... You don't want DNVP professors/teachers spewing extreme right-wing nationalism at schools and universities. From the social-cultural angle, these guys absolutely hated and despised democracy and cultural progressivism of the Weimar Republic - this angle IOTL generally receives less focus from scholars and historians than the political and economic angles.
Deleted member 94680
And yet that power completely wilted in the face of the Nazi challenge with barely a whimper. Seems it was more of a paper tiger than a coherent bloc to dominate the right.
Thomas1195
Banned
Sure, but these guys would create the conditions for something that resembles Nazism to emerge, by thrusting the "stab in the back" myth and right-wing nationalism into the political discourse and the minds of the youth (through those gymnasium teachers and professors). In addition, they were more willing with fascists and nazis against the democrats. The German middle-class IOTL also sold their souls to the Nazis because they viewed them as a bulwark against left-wing revolution, and TTL so far is basically their nightmare comes true - a democracy cannot survive on the back of the working class (the SDP) alone.
I mean, there are reasons why Nazism went into every aspect of German life unchallenged. Hitler was extremely popular, and all of the Nazis' brutal policies against Jews and leftists were welcome with open arms.
Reading about OTL German Resistance was very depressing because they were mostly junior officers, civil servantsand aristocrats motivated by the concern that Hitler's incompetency would have dragged them down as well, not "Nazism was wrong".
Last edited:
Deleted member 94680
It wasn’t the DNVP that put the Dolchstoßlegende into public discourse.
The DNVP wasn’t overly represented in education. It was the Civil Service that they had a higher than representative percentage.
Thomas1195
Banned
Ludendorff was a DNVP at best and a Nazi at worst.
And you ignore Alfred fucking Huguenberg's role in spreading the myth through his domination over the press.
Because so many university professors and Gymnasium teachers supported the DNVP, everyone who went to university in Germany under the Weimar republic was exposed in some way to Deutsch-National influence.
German National People's Party - Wikipedia
Their influence was still more than sufficiently large. In fact, extreme nationalism was already very prevalent in Germany well before ww1.
Here is Austen Chamberlain's experience when he attended University of Berlin decades before ww1: "While attending the University of Berlin Austen developed a suspicion of the growing nationalism in Germany based upon his experience of the lecturing style of Heinrich von Treitschke, who opened up to him "a new side of the German character - a narrow-minded, proud, intolerant Prussian chauvinism", the consequences of which he was later to ponder during the First World War and the crises of the 1930s".
Austen Chamberlain - Wikipedia
Last edited:
Deleted member 94680
Ludendorff wasn't DNVP. I'm not ignoring anything, I'm responding to what you have written. Hugenbreg may well have spread it, but you said the DNVP introduced it. Also, there were plenty of newspapers Hugenberg didn't control.
And? How does that explain the SDP? The DVP? The communists?
The DNVP didn't exist before WWI.
von Treitschke was a National Liberal... like Stresemann. So doesn't that mean the DVP?
Thomas1195
Banned
He was not a DNVP party member, but we all know what his political leaning was. The right-wing circles in Germany were the ones who made it a common thing.
Alfred Huguenberg was a major DNVP political leader btw.
The SDP and Communists were largely based around the working class. And the DVP was not that big, and its attitude towards the Weimar Republic was questionable. In addition, most of DVP supporters went over to the...Nazis during the 1930s - which is a major indicator that much if not most/all of the German middle-class welcomed Nazism - you can search David T's comments on German voting patterns during the 1930s.
Yes, it predated the ww1 and thus the DNVP, and what I mean is that right-wing nationalism was a huge thing in Germany well before August 1914.
Besides, the Conservatives and Free Conservatives plus the right-wing National Liberals were the predecessors of the DNVP.
By the timw Chamberlain talked about him, he had become a pro-Bismarck right-wing nationalist.
Last edited:
Deleted member 94680
Then he was a Right-Wing Nationalist/Monarchist. He was not DNVP. Again, I was responding to what you wrote. If you want to keep on changing it, it's going to be hard to keep up.
I'm well aware of who and what Hugenberg was. Again, I was responding to what you wrote, I can only see what you put on the screen. Apologies if I can't read between the lines to understand what you really mean when you write something else entirely.
Went over to the Nazis is a nice way of putting it. I also think your analysis of middle-class views on the Nazis is rather simplistic.
No, it did not. The DNVP was formed in December 1918 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_National_People's_Party#National_Opposition,_1918–1924. So what if right-wing nationalism was a 'huge thing' in Germany before the War? I thought we were talking about the Stab-in-the-back Myth which came about after the War?
Right-wing National Liberals, as in the members of the right-wing of the Party that left to join the DNVP? Correct. The National Liberals as a party formed the DVP in the Weimar period.
And? He definitely wasn't a member of the DNVP, what with being dead 22 years before the DNVP formed.
Thomas1195
Banned
The various right-wing nationalist attitudes (racist, eugenicist, hyper-nationalistic, Volkisch, anti-Semitic, "a place in the Sun"...) was strong and on the rise in Wilhelmine Germany. The First World War and its aftermath (like the myth) only further amplified them and made them what they were during the interwar period IOTL. And, throw into that a lack of democratic tradition, plus rejection of cultural progressivism by the right-wing factions, and you are already well over 50% to a right-wing nationalist authoritarian regime. Note that IOTL, the liberal progressive culture of the Republic was despised and considered as "decadence".
What I finally mean is that logically there would be extreme right-wing backlash in the upcoming years ITTL, even if Versailles and hyperinflation go differently.
I mean the right-wing section of the NLP.
When I mention him, I mean that all those hyper-nationalistic ideals and attitudes were already there, they were already alive and kicking well before ww1. Versailles and the myth only served to amplify these underlying trends.
Last edited:
A United Front in Germany
A United Front in Germany
The Independents’ official adoption of an alliance with the Communists arrived just on the eve of the election to the constituent assembly of Oldenburg on 23rd February. Of the 48 seats available, the KPD-USPD coalition won 4 against the SPD’s 12.[1] For the next election, in industrial Saxe-Gotha two days later, the United Front accelerated their campaigning in the workers’ councils and factory committees: they won 11 of the 19 seats. It was the first parliamentary election where the Social Democrats won no seats.[2] During this time, and immediately after the federal election, the Communist Central Committee had begun to prepare for what they assumed to be an inevitable military confrontation. Heinrich Dorrenbach and his subordinates in the Red Guard were ordered to establish gymnasiums, and youth and sports clubs in order to disguise their training activities from government and Freikorps spies. Other party members who had served in the military, for example Hans Kippenberger, Ernst Thälmann, Wilhelm Zaisser, Richard Sorge, Ernst Wollweber, and Erich Wollenberg were vital in the training of their fellow former soldiers and workers. To root out enemy spies and spread the party’s influence in the Deutsches Heer, the Central Committee created the Military Apparatus; commanded by Wilhelm Zaisser, the organisation and its membership was for the time being kept secret from the rest of the party and responded only to orders from the Zentrale.
Throughout January and February the Russian Communist Party (Rossiskaya Kommunisticheskaya Partiya/RKPb) had been preparing for the foundation of a new, revolutionary Communist International to break away from the reformist and arguably reactionary Second International. It had been hoped that the first meeting would take place in Berlin on 1st February, but the SPD government’s hostility to the Bolsheviks precluded that plan. The new location and date was set for Moscow on the 15th of that same month but it was again postponed; this time to 2nd March. The German Communists accepted their invitation to the Congress even though Rosa Luxemburg thought that the founding of a new Communist International would be premature when there was only one country governed by a communist party. The Central Committee appointed Luxemburg and Hugo Eberlein as the delegates to the Congress, and narrowly decided that they were to vote against the founding of a new International if it was proposed. 52 delegates from across Europe, Asia, and North America were in attendance; of these, 18 were non-voting consultative delegates.[3] Before the beginning of the conference, Vladimir Lenin, who knew of the Germans’ opposition to founding the new International, tried to convince them otherwise; he failed and promised that if they were still opposed, the founding would be deferred. During the debates, Luxemburg and Eberlein iterated their argument of the Communist International being premature and argued instead for a provisional platform. However, the other delegates were swept up in powerful speeches delivered by the likes of Grigory Zinoviev (representing the RKPb), Karl Steinhardt (representing the Austrian Communist Party), and Christian Rakovsky (representing the Balkan Revolutionary Social Democratic Federation). As a result, Luxemburg and Eberlein abstained with their five votes and the Communist International was officially founded. The Comintern was to be governed by an Executive Committee comprised of representatives from the most important communist parties; in the meantime a Bureau of Zinoviev, Lenin, Leon Trotsky, Rakovsky, and Fritz Platten would oversee the Comintern until the Executive Committee was formed.
The German National Assembly was convened in Weimar on 1st March. Eduard David of the SPD was elected the first President of the National Assembly and the day afterwards the assembly voted on a collection of laws which: confirmed supreme legislative power in the National Assembly; established the office of President; and established a second legislative chamber representing the states. The KPD-USPD coalition voted against the legislation while the DNVP and DVP deputies were a mixture of votes against and abstentions, but the combined votes of the SPD, DDP, and Zentrum were more than enough to produce a majority for the legislation. On 3rd March, the Assembly elected Friedrich Ebert as the first official President of the new Germany; he won 244 votes.[4] The only other contender was DNVP candidate and prominent pre-Revolution politician Arthur von Posadowsky-Wehner, who won 71 votes.[5] The United Front abstained on the vote rather than legitimise the institution of President by voting for their own candidate. Secure in his power, Ebert appointed Philipp Scheidemann as Chancellor and tasked him with forming a new government. Although the Scheidemann cabinet was understandably dominated by SPD ministers, including the return of Gustav Noske as Minister of Defence, a number of important ministries were given to right-wing figures such as: Hugo Preuss as Minister of the Interior (DDP); Eugen Schiffer as Vice-Chancellor and Minister of Finance (DDP); and Ulrich Graf von Brockdorff-Rantzau as Foreign Minister. Constantin Fehrenbach of Zentrum was elected as the new President of the National Assembly to replace Eduard David, who had joined the cabinet.
Upon hearing the announcement of the new cabinet, miners in Thuringia engaged in unorganised wildcat strikes while the local United Front branches planned a demonstration to be held outside the National Theatre (the Assembly’s venue) in Weimar. A few hundred thousand miners and other workers from across central Germany, joined by KPD, USPD, and even some SPD deputies, gathered in Weimar on 5th March and demanded a government of all the socialist parties to be established; in other cities smaller demonstrations made the same demands. Having had enough of the constant revolutionary unrest a unit of Freikorps under the command of Captain Hermann Ehrhardt, comprised mostly of former sailors and stationed outside of Berlin, marched into Berlin with the aim of liquidating the Executive Committee of the Berlin workers’ and soldiers’ councils. One of the Freikorps soldiers however had forewarned their former colleague Hans Paasche, former naval officer and at that time a member of the Executive Committee. Though he was first elected by pro-SPD soldier delegates, Paasche had soon veered sharply towards revolutionary socialism and cooperated with both the Communists and Independents. Paasche dutifully informed his fellow Committee members and the local detachment of the Red Guard planned an ambush for the incoming Freikorps. The Ehrhardt Brigade, numbering 1,500 men, was ambushed during its entry into Berlin on 7th March by a Red Guard militia of approximately the same size. The Red Guard had chosen their ambush site to be the Spandau district, knowing that armed sections of the working class population would join them in repelling the reactionary soldiers. Their assumption was correct and the Freikorps suffered heavy casualties, including Captain Ehrhardt, before retreating while facing continued harassment from armed gangs of workers.
Freikorps Captain Hermann Ehrhardt
Hermann Ehrhardt and his brigade had been acting alone and without a plan, but the revolutionaries did not know this and assumed the action was the beginning of a military coup. The leaderships of the KPD, USPD, and IKD formed a joint council with the Executive Committee of the Berlin councils and began to formulate a response to the crisis. Furious debate ensued, with the SPD members of the Executive Committee arguing for restraint until the situation could be clarified. Everyone else however agreed that, at minimum, Berlin should be secured against further reactionary threat. In essence, this would entail the seizure of government buildings, press and communications offices, the arming of the proletariat, disarming of reactionary forces, and defence preparations undertaken by the Red Guard and the remaining non-Communist elements of the People’s Navy Division. Further action was more contentious though. A sizeable minority of those present argued for the immediate declaration of a socialist council republic and the overthrow of the Weimar-based government. Opposition to this scheme, even within the KPD, was strong; Ernst Däumig criticised the call for what he predicted would be a short-lived and isolated “Berlin Commune”, while Karl Liebknecht argued that the proposed plan could only work when it was coordinated and explicitly supported by a majority of the working class, and the SPD members threatened to withdraw if such ‘putschist’ actions were taken. The joint council voted against the declaration of a socialist council republic, and instead decided upon the demand for the immediate formation of a socialist unity government comprising the Communists and both the Social Democratic parties. Meanwhile, General Walther von Lüttwitz assured the government in Weimar that Ehrhardt had been acting alone. The general refrained from denouncing the Freikorps action though and afterwards secretly reached out to generals Georg Maercker and Erich Ludendorff to plot an end to the Bolshevik menace.
[1] OTL the KPD/USPD didn’t run and the SPD got 16 seats.
[2] OTL, USPD = 10, SPD = 1.
[3] Same delegates as OTL plus Luxemburg.
[4] OTL it was 277.
[5] OTL it was 49. I figure that with the Communists in parliament, the right-wing anti-republican candidate would get a bit more support.
Dramatis Personae (OTL biographies)
Hans Kippenberger: Having served as a first lieutenant during the war, Kippenberger joined the USPD sometime during the November Revolution and afterwards was with the majority that merged with the KPD in 1920. He worked in the clandestine apparatus of the party and was involved in the failed 1923 Hamburg uprising, after which he went in exile to the USSR for further education. Kippenberger returned to Germany later in 1924 and continued his role in the clandestine apparatus, where he was involved in a few political assassinations, as well as being elected to the Reichstag in 1928. Due to factional disputes in the 1930s, Kippenberger was sent back to the USSR where he was arrested in 1936 and executed the next year.
Richard Sorge: James Bond but real and communist.
Erich Wollenberg: A soldier during the war and participant during the mutinies of early November 1918, Wollenberg joined the Spartacus League and relocated to Munich in early 1919, where he fought for the council republic. After its defeat, Wollenberg spent two years in prison and afterwards became a KPD organiser, and thus was one of the leaders of the 1923 uprising in the Ruhr. In 1924 he was sent to the USSR where he joined the Red Army and taught at university. Between then and 1932 Wollenberg moved back and forth between Germany and the USSR. In 1933, while in the USSR, his criticisms of the KPD leadership resulted in his expulsion from the party, after which Wollenberg successively escaped to Prague, Paris, and Casablanca. After the war had ended, he returned to (West) Germany where he worked as a freelance journalist until his death in 1973.
The Independents’ official adoption of an alliance with the Communists arrived just on the eve of the election to the constituent assembly of Oldenburg on 23rd February. Of the 48 seats available, the KPD-USPD coalition won 4 against the SPD’s 12.[1] For the next election, in industrial Saxe-Gotha two days later, the United Front accelerated their campaigning in the workers’ councils and factory committees: they won 11 of the 19 seats. It was the first parliamentary election where the Social Democrats won no seats.[2] During this time, and immediately after the federal election, the Communist Central Committee had begun to prepare for what they assumed to be an inevitable military confrontation. Heinrich Dorrenbach and his subordinates in the Red Guard were ordered to establish gymnasiums, and youth and sports clubs in order to disguise their training activities from government and Freikorps spies. Other party members who had served in the military, for example Hans Kippenberger, Ernst Thälmann, Wilhelm Zaisser, Richard Sorge, Ernst Wollweber, and Erich Wollenberg were vital in the training of their fellow former soldiers and workers. To root out enemy spies and spread the party’s influence in the Deutsches Heer, the Central Committee created the Military Apparatus; commanded by Wilhelm Zaisser, the organisation and its membership was for the time being kept secret from the rest of the party and responded only to orders from the Zentrale.
Throughout January and February the Russian Communist Party (Rossiskaya Kommunisticheskaya Partiya/RKPb) had been preparing for the foundation of a new, revolutionary Communist International to break away from the reformist and arguably reactionary Second International. It had been hoped that the first meeting would take place in Berlin on 1st February, but the SPD government’s hostility to the Bolsheviks precluded that plan. The new location and date was set for Moscow on the 15th of that same month but it was again postponed; this time to 2nd March. The German Communists accepted their invitation to the Congress even though Rosa Luxemburg thought that the founding of a new Communist International would be premature when there was only one country governed by a communist party. The Central Committee appointed Luxemburg and Hugo Eberlein as the delegates to the Congress, and narrowly decided that they were to vote against the founding of a new International if it was proposed. 52 delegates from across Europe, Asia, and North America were in attendance; of these, 18 were non-voting consultative delegates.[3] Before the beginning of the conference, Vladimir Lenin, who knew of the Germans’ opposition to founding the new International, tried to convince them otherwise; he failed and promised that if they were still opposed, the founding would be deferred. During the debates, Luxemburg and Eberlein iterated their argument of the Communist International being premature and argued instead for a provisional platform. However, the other delegates were swept up in powerful speeches delivered by the likes of Grigory Zinoviev (representing the RKPb), Karl Steinhardt (representing the Austrian Communist Party), and Christian Rakovsky (representing the Balkan Revolutionary Social Democratic Federation). As a result, Luxemburg and Eberlein abstained with their five votes and the Communist International was officially founded. The Comintern was to be governed by an Executive Committee comprised of representatives from the most important communist parties; in the meantime a Bureau of Zinoviev, Lenin, Leon Trotsky, Rakovsky, and Fritz Platten would oversee the Comintern until the Executive Committee was formed.
The German National Assembly was convened in Weimar on 1st March. Eduard David of the SPD was elected the first President of the National Assembly and the day afterwards the assembly voted on a collection of laws which: confirmed supreme legislative power in the National Assembly; established the office of President; and established a second legislative chamber representing the states. The KPD-USPD coalition voted against the legislation while the DNVP and DVP deputies were a mixture of votes against and abstentions, but the combined votes of the SPD, DDP, and Zentrum were more than enough to produce a majority for the legislation. On 3rd March, the Assembly elected Friedrich Ebert as the first official President of the new Germany; he won 244 votes.[4] The only other contender was DNVP candidate and prominent pre-Revolution politician Arthur von Posadowsky-Wehner, who won 71 votes.[5] The United Front abstained on the vote rather than legitimise the institution of President by voting for their own candidate. Secure in his power, Ebert appointed Philipp Scheidemann as Chancellor and tasked him with forming a new government. Although the Scheidemann cabinet was understandably dominated by SPD ministers, including the return of Gustav Noske as Minister of Defence, a number of important ministries were given to right-wing figures such as: Hugo Preuss as Minister of the Interior (DDP); Eugen Schiffer as Vice-Chancellor and Minister of Finance (DDP); and Ulrich Graf von Brockdorff-Rantzau as Foreign Minister. Constantin Fehrenbach of Zentrum was elected as the new President of the National Assembly to replace Eduard David, who had joined the cabinet.
Upon hearing the announcement of the new cabinet, miners in Thuringia engaged in unorganised wildcat strikes while the local United Front branches planned a demonstration to be held outside the National Theatre (the Assembly’s venue) in Weimar. A few hundred thousand miners and other workers from across central Germany, joined by KPD, USPD, and even some SPD deputies, gathered in Weimar on 5th March and demanded a government of all the socialist parties to be established; in other cities smaller demonstrations made the same demands. Having had enough of the constant revolutionary unrest a unit of Freikorps under the command of Captain Hermann Ehrhardt, comprised mostly of former sailors and stationed outside of Berlin, marched into Berlin with the aim of liquidating the Executive Committee of the Berlin workers’ and soldiers’ councils. One of the Freikorps soldiers however had forewarned their former colleague Hans Paasche, former naval officer and at that time a member of the Executive Committee. Though he was first elected by pro-SPD soldier delegates, Paasche had soon veered sharply towards revolutionary socialism and cooperated with both the Communists and Independents. Paasche dutifully informed his fellow Committee members and the local detachment of the Red Guard planned an ambush for the incoming Freikorps. The Ehrhardt Brigade, numbering 1,500 men, was ambushed during its entry into Berlin on 7th March by a Red Guard militia of approximately the same size. The Red Guard had chosen their ambush site to be the Spandau district, knowing that armed sections of the working class population would join them in repelling the reactionary soldiers. Their assumption was correct and the Freikorps suffered heavy casualties, including Captain Ehrhardt, before retreating while facing continued harassment from armed gangs of workers.
Freikorps Captain Hermann Ehrhardt
Hermann Ehrhardt and his brigade had been acting alone and without a plan, but the revolutionaries did not know this and assumed the action was the beginning of a military coup. The leaderships of the KPD, USPD, and IKD formed a joint council with the Executive Committee of the Berlin councils and began to formulate a response to the crisis. Furious debate ensued, with the SPD members of the Executive Committee arguing for restraint until the situation could be clarified. Everyone else however agreed that, at minimum, Berlin should be secured against further reactionary threat. In essence, this would entail the seizure of government buildings, press and communications offices, the arming of the proletariat, disarming of reactionary forces, and defence preparations undertaken by the Red Guard and the remaining non-Communist elements of the People’s Navy Division. Further action was more contentious though. A sizeable minority of those present argued for the immediate declaration of a socialist council republic and the overthrow of the Weimar-based government. Opposition to this scheme, even within the KPD, was strong; Ernst Däumig criticised the call for what he predicted would be a short-lived and isolated “Berlin Commune”, while Karl Liebknecht argued that the proposed plan could only work when it was coordinated and explicitly supported by a majority of the working class, and the SPD members threatened to withdraw if such ‘putschist’ actions were taken. The joint council voted against the declaration of a socialist council republic, and instead decided upon the demand for the immediate formation of a socialist unity government comprising the Communists and both the Social Democratic parties. Meanwhile, General Walther von Lüttwitz assured the government in Weimar that Ehrhardt had been acting alone. The general refrained from denouncing the Freikorps action though and afterwards secretly reached out to generals Georg Maercker and Erich Ludendorff to plot an end to the Bolshevik menace.
[1] OTL the KPD/USPD didn’t run and the SPD got 16 seats.
[2] OTL, USPD = 10, SPD = 1.
[3] Same delegates as OTL plus Luxemburg.
[4] OTL it was 277.
[5] OTL it was 49. I figure that with the Communists in parliament, the right-wing anti-republican candidate would get a bit more support.
Dramatis Personae (OTL biographies)
Hans Kippenberger: Having served as a first lieutenant during the war, Kippenberger joined the USPD sometime during the November Revolution and afterwards was with the majority that merged with the KPD in 1920. He worked in the clandestine apparatus of the party and was involved in the failed 1923 Hamburg uprising, after which he went in exile to the USSR for further education. Kippenberger returned to Germany later in 1924 and continued his role in the clandestine apparatus, where he was involved in a few political assassinations, as well as being elected to the Reichstag in 1928. Due to factional disputes in the 1930s, Kippenberger was sent back to the USSR where he was arrested in 1936 and executed the next year.
Richard Sorge: James Bond but real and communist.
Erich Wollenberg: A soldier during the war and participant during the mutinies of early November 1918, Wollenberg joined the Spartacus League and relocated to Munich in early 1919, where he fought for the council republic. After its defeat, Wollenberg spent two years in prison and afterwards became a KPD organiser, and thus was one of the leaders of the 1923 uprising in the Ruhr. In 1924 he was sent to the USSR where he joined the Red Army and taught at university. Between then and 1932 Wollenberg moved back and forth between Germany and the USSR. In 1933, while in the USSR, his criticisms of the KPD leadership resulted in his expulsion from the party, after which Wollenberg successively escaped to Prague, Paris, and Casablanca. After the war had ended, he returned to (West) Germany where he worked as a freelance journalist until his death in 1973.
Last edited:
You can cut the tension with a knife. All the pieces are lining up, I just wonder what it will be that pushes things over the edge?
The Soviet push into Poland will be successful due to socialist Germany getting involved, but I'm not yet decided on other areas of the larger Civil War. The Hungarian and Slovak soviet republics will also be successful due to Soviet and German aid, though I'm not sure on Czechia yet.
Hard to see how the Czechs wouldn't end up folding under the circumstances. They'd be surrounded on all sides and would face a very large fifth column comprised of Czech Communists and Sudeten Germans.
Small amount of the former and extremely large quantities of the latter. And this is a problem because in this time frame the average czech worker hates Germans more than they like socialism. The czechs will misidentify socialism as another German attempt to swallow them again. This could end up similarly as in Spartacus HOI4 mod with an extremy and throughly anti-communist Czech rump state, where the Northern Suddeten split away to join Luxembourghist Germany while the Czech state is getting financed through Austria by the Entente.
Last edited:
It all depends on what happens in/to Austria. I've got a feeling that Czechia remains independent in Spartakus for gameplay/balance purposes. Also, I disagree about the Czech socialism and communism being unpopular; in the 1920 election the as-of-yet unsplit Czech Social Democrats came first with just over a quarter of the vote while the German (in Czechoslovakia) Social Democrats came third with 11%. In the next election (1925) the Communists came second while the Social Democrats dropped down to fourth; together they had about 22% of the vote. It's not brilliant but it's still a sizeable portion.