Nobunaga’s Ambition Realized: Dawn of a New Rising Sun
- Thread starter Ambassador Huntsman
- Start date
Seeing Sweden do better than otl is definitely a treat! I wonder how'll things turn out at the end. After all, England still have their two colonies as per otl, and they have the navy to kick the other powers out as per otl. I wonder would we see slight differences like the Swedes leaving a cultural footprint though. I also wonder what's happening with the Quebec and New France in general. Would we even have quebec as per otl, or would we have someone else take over the region? Do we have Acadia and Louisiana?
The other colonies are generally the same ITTL if that helps.
I love this, but sad to say but with the survival of the Vasa bloodline for at least a bit longer Charles XII of Sweden is butterflied out of existence.
I actually wonder if the United States will actually form ITTL....given that the Danes and Swedes are the ones putting up the second colony in what would become the United States of America (the Spanish colonized Florida in the 1530s). Unless, of course, they lose the first colonies to the British and the American Revolution happens because of that.
hmm that makes sense. We'd get the US like otl then, even with the minor differences in the starting colonies. At least the thirteen (or fifteen if the Canadians secede alongside the Americans) colonies are very plausible. I think seeing a US that has to contend with Quebec would be very interesting, and I defo hope we'd see differences in the ittl US. Hell, maybe we'd get Argentina to be a British colony or even an earlier takeover of South Africa by the British.
The first colony is still the same though, Saint Augustine Florida has been around for about a century at this point in time.
I'm referring to stuff like New Sweden and New Netherlands being more substantial than otl.
I've heard of New Netherlands, but what's New Sweden? Never heard of that.
Will Japan get in on the Colonization of America, maybe The Cascadia region
Ambassader huntsman's new update just discussed that, and I think the only difference to otl is that the Delaware river is called the Vasa river ittl in honour of the Swedish monarchs of the time.
otl new sweden (which is basically the same to ittl new sweden):
New Sweden - Wikipedia
Hopefully. The Japanese will probably follow the Russian's route of colonisation in otl, and things would be very interesting in that region. At the very least I hope we see more Japanese colonists and more rice cultivation.
Russian colonization of North America - Wikipedia
Going to be interesting to see competition between Russia and Japan for the Amur River basin, Karafuto island, Chishima islands, kamchatka peninsula, and Alaska. Also can’t wait to see what role the Ainu will play in the coming conflict.
We Will probably see the Japanese people replace the ethic niche the Han Chinese peoples would have inhabited in south east Asia in OTL for many reasons. an outward looking Japan, a surviving Ming dynasty, good relationship with the Dutch, recovering relations with an expanding Thailand, a direct hold over norther Luzan, and a strong Reputation with the Islamic powers thanks to fighting and defeating the Iberian powers.
Iam more interested to see Japan introduce new world crops, I wonder how potatoes might grow in the Ezo islands.
I think the Russians won't be able to take anything beyond mainland Siberia considering how much closer Japan's heartlands are compared to Russia's. I think we'd at least get karafuto/shakalin, chinshima/Kurils and the Aleutian Islands be Japanese, and Alaska and cascadia would be Japanese dominated for at least a century.
Nah the Chinese demographics (especially in the south where the ppl congregate areas where the arable lands are, which are the lowlands and valleys) would probably push them to move beyond the ocean. The southern Chinese have a good naval tradition too (a bunch only go on shore to sell fish and get stuff necessary to live) so a bunch leaving for SEA is going to happen, with or without the destabilisation of the Ming. Tbf I think we'd have less extreme volumes of ppl moving in and settling down, but the Japanese authorities would encourage it to increase the ppl loyal in them in the colonies beyond the Japanese peasants they took/encouraged to move.
Tbf I think Japanese (the language) would be like Malay or the European lanfuages: a Lingua franca and trading language that spreads due to traders and ppl settling down in the region. We probably would get European competitors too so idk how things would get, but there's a substantial chance that the Japanese dominated regions and the European regions develop very differently, with Japanese language and nihon-chinese settlers being much more substantial in those regions than in the European controlled regions of sea. The Chinese and Japanese peasants that go to sea do see sea as land that they can very much live in unlike the Europeans who see it much more as the place where they can get silk and spices.
Potatoes are a major crop in Ezo otl, and I don't think that'll change ittl since potatoes have great yields and can be grown anywhere, same with sweet potato and the like. Rather I think stuff like oca and yacon from America and sorghum from Africa would be interesting as they'd be very useful in SEA and be introduced by Japanese traders travelling far and wide, which would be interesting secondary crops that the Japanese could enjoy.
Don’t forget that after the Ming-Yuan-Chosenalliance defeated the Jin, The Amur river valley would be wide open. If the Russians settle the region and/or converts the locals that would be a major populated strong hold in the area that would produce soldiers, settlers, bureaucrats, and supplies for Russian expansion.
Japan will have to fight skirmishes and wars to secure its dominance in the north and force the Russians to accept that there will be no warm water ports for them.
just to be sure we are on the same page but I am not talking about historical minorities from China that immigrated south like the Tai peoples that make up Thailand and Laos or Sino-Tibetan speaking peoples of Burma.
I am talking about the Han Chinese (and to a lesser extent the Hakka Chinese) that would have gone on to immigrate to the the Malay peninsula, Sumatra, Borneo, and Philippines during the 18th and 19th centuries when the Qing ruled China and the Europeans dominated South East Asia.
It’s been mentioned already that the Japanese already have a policy of maintaining close ties with the immigrant-merchant quarters that have sprung up all over south east Asia.
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Yeah they'll have to fight the Russians as they start to settle the land. Tbf I think the Koreans are the more likely option to take over bits of Manchuria.
Ye I am talking about han Chinese. The tai defo didn't use boats to get to Thailand. I'm just saying that the Han Chinese that live there would have the same insentives to leave because arable land isn't widely available and are concentrated in pockets in southern China.
Yeah it makes sense that Japan takes over as the Lingua franca.
It was mentioned in chapter 61 that the Chosen have started expanding north absorbing Anti-Jin Jurchen tribes. So they will probably deny the Russians most of Jilin and some southern parts of heilongjiang and Primorsky Krai.
The Chinese under the Qing left due to political and economic reasons not out of a lack of farming land. They were there to work, mine, open business, and not be ruled by the Manchus.
Japanese is in like the top three hardest languages to learn. Unless the foreign minister pushes for a standardized simplified southeast Asian Creole-dialect for Japanese immigrants communities I don’t think it will become a lingua franca.
We can see that the rise of Japan is affecting China, it is likely to grow stronger sooner. But is the emissary to the Mughal Court and the stronger interaction of the Mughals to the Eastern Civilizations causing butterflies in the Mughal Court, in particular on the importance of overseas voyage?
Are the Japanese merchants likely to take on a share of the Indian trade to Europe?
Are the Japanese merchants likely to take on a share of the Indian trade to Europe?
I know Japanese is one of the hardest languages to learn for English speakers. But is it true for speakers of Asian languages too?
I mean, I understand that it would be hard for an English speaker like myself. I remember trying to learn Cantonese when I was younger, I found it very hard and I almost caused my tutor (technically a low paid international student) a mental breakdown at my inability to learn.
But is true for those with a different native tongue though. I've spent the last twenty minutes trying to find out and can only find sources that give a perspective for English native speakers.