Hmm that does make sense for some Austronesian tribes to become Japanese allies and be Japanisized too.
It'd be interesting for ppl doing genome testing to find a few groups who claim to be descendants of yasuke to have African genetic markers.
Nobunaga’s Ambition Realized: Dawn of a New Rising Sun
- Thread starter Ambassador Huntsman
- Start date
It'd be interesting for ppl doing genome testing to find a few groups who claim to be descendants of yasuke to have African genetic markers.
That's saying nothing of his recognized descendants being actually recorded.
Chapter 16: Oda Governance and Administration in the 1580s and 1590s
Chapter 16: Oda Governance and Administration in the 1580s and 1590s
The initial decrees and administrative initiatives enacted by Nobunaga were followed by more minor but nevertheless impactful reforms to the scope and organization of the Daijo-fu. For instance, the councilors who collectively became known as the Sangi-shu (参議衆), were invested with powers to mediate disputes among daimyo and other significant figures in the realm and monitor relations between clans under the supervision and direction of the daijo-daijin or his proxy (under Nobunaga before 1593, Nobutada would act in the absence of his father). Marriages between clans became a highly regulated affair in particular.
The distribution of imperial titles was also a tightly regulated matter. With precedent, it was established that for the most part no samurai outside the Oda clan or members of the Sangi-shu could receive ranks higher than the 4th rank or councilor titles. Even among the Sangi-shu, non-Oda samurai were not given anything higher than Sangi or the 3rd rank, with the exception of Tokugawa Ieyasu, who was granted the junior 2nd rank and the title of middle councilor, or Gon-Chunagon, (従二位権中納言) in 1592 on the 30th anniversary of the Kiyosu Pact (清洲同盟) between Nobunaga and Ieyasu.
Under Nobunaga, Mori Naritoshi would gradually become a central bureaucratic figure in the administration as his most direct aide who not only ensured his orders were carried out but also helped manage the household and other internal workings of Azuchi Castle. Being a big favorite of Nobunaga on top of his key position lead to the rapid political ascension of the Mori clan (森氏) across the board. While his older brother Nagayoshi became a councilor in 1586, his younger brothers served key administrative roles to various magistrates: Nagataka in Hakodate with Mōri Yoshikatsu, Nagauji (森長氏) in Azuchi with Naritoshi, and Tadamasa in Iriebashi with Nobuhide the Younger and Ikeda Terumasa.
The distribution of imperial titles was also a tightly regulated matter. With precedent, it was established that for the most part no samurai outside the Oda clan or members of the Sangi-shu could receive ranks higher than the 4th rank or councilor titles. Even among the Sangi-shu, non-Oda samurai were not given anything higher than Sangi or the 3rd rank, with the exception of Tokugawa Ieyasu, who was granted the junior 2nd rank and the title of middle councilor, or Gon-Chunagon, (従二位権中納言) in 1592 on the 30th anniversary of the Kiyosu Pact (清洲同盟) between Nobunaga and Ieyasu.
Under Nobunaga, Mori Naritoshi would gradually become a central bureaucratic figure in the administration as his most direct aide who not only ensured his orders were carried out but also helped manage the household and other internal workings of Azuchi Castle. Being a big favorite of Nobunaga on top of his key position lead to the rapid political ascension of the Mori clan (森氏) across the board. While his older brother Nagayoshi became a councilor in 1586, his younger brothers served key administrative roles to various magistrates: Nagataka in Hakodate with Mōri Yoshikatsu, Nagauji (森長氏) in Azuchi with Naritoshi, and Tadamasa in Iriebashi with Nobuhide the Younger and Ikeda Terumasa.
Portrait of Mori Naritoshi
After Nobutada became the new daijo-daijin, Naritoshi’s political influence faded in favor of Hashiba Hideyoshi, the most senior Oda vassal in the Sangi-shu, and Maeda Geni (前田玄以), Nobutada’s longtime advisor. Nevertheless, he would remain an important figure in the central government as the new magistrate of Azuchi.
While Nobutada did not share his father’s intense curiosity towards European technology and the outside world in general, he would continue much of his father’s agenda in facilitating greater commercial activity, building up the Azuchi navy, and strengthening central authority. One difference was his greater patronage of Buddhist temples and Shinto shrines and closer relations with the imperial court, no doubt under Maeda Geni’s advice. Nobutada would even arrange Nobunori’s marriage with former imperial regent Konoe Sakihisa’s daughter Konoe Sakiko (近衛前子) in 1595.
While Nobutada did not share his father’s intense curiosity towards European technology and the outside world in general, he would continue much of his father’s agenda in facilitating greater commercial activity, building up the Azuchi navy, and strengthening central authority. One difference was his greater patronage of Buddhist temples and Shinto shrines and closer relations with the imperial court, no doubt under Maeda Geni’s advice. Nobutada would even arrange Nobunori’s marriage with former imperial regent Konoe Sakihisa’s daughter Konoe Sakiko (近衛前子) in 1595.
Portrait of Maeda Geni
Meanwhile, in Kamakura, Oda Nagatoshi would mirror his older brother in his own administrative reforms centralizing authority in the Kanto region. He faced some difficulty in maintaining unity across the region as the daimyo were generally divided between pro-Hojo and pro-Takigawa factions. Nevertheless, as the Kamakura Tandai, he centralized the authority of the Kamakura-fu. Kamakura itself, under the stewardship of its magistrate Hasegawa Hidekazu (長谷川秀一), would undergo a burst of economic expansion that see it become the definitive commercial core of the realm east of Gifu.
Portrait of Hasegawa Hidekazu
As the administrative center of the core Oda lands in Owari and Mino provinces (尾張国, 美濃国), Gifu continued to flourish being in the middle of the eastern and western inland trade routes of the realm. It would also become the training grounds for Oda clan heirs and future daijo-daijin.
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It’s only been 10+ years since the POD, Nobunaga is still alive and the Dutch haven’t even made contact with Japan yet, its not enough time for things to drastically change in a cultural sense. I’ll cover the early impact of expanded Japanese trade in a couple updates.
I suspect that the Taiwanese/Bireitouan Aboriginals will likely be assimilated into Japanese culture, albeit with a sizable portion of the gene pool in Bireitou being of Aboriginal origin. As for Yasuke, if he and his descendants are continually reproducing with ethnic Japanese, then within 4-5 generations any trace of visible African ancestry will disappear.
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Hmm considering ittl the kansai region would dominate Japan would ittl Edo be the financial capital while Osaka/Kyoto be the administrative capital?
Basically it'd be interesting if a significant part of beiritou ancestry comes from someone who's not ethnically Japanese and is Japanese.
True, but I did say that it'd be interesting for genetic traces to show their African ancestry.
Basically it'd be interesting if a significant part of beiritou ancestry comes from someone who's not ethnically Japanese and is Japanese.
Edo remains a small fishing village for the time being. Osaka also never becomes its own entity the way it did IOTL. The 5 main urban centers in Japan right now are Kamakura, Nagasaki, Azuchi, Sakai, and Kyoto with Gifu and Yamaguchi not far behind.
As I said earlier, I expect the Taiwanese Aboriginals to make up a sizable portion of Bireitou's gene pool. They probably won't look too different from regular Japanese, though, as the Taiwanese Aboriginals are still East Asian in appearance. As for African ancestry, if it's just Yasuke, then the African ancestry would be so diluted by the present that it'd barely register.
Hideyoshi made Osaka what it is today IOTL. No Hideyoshi as a unifier, no Osaka Castle and no Osaka as an administrative capital. Osaka will exist ITTL as a thriving town sandwiched between Sakai and Kyoto. Sakai kinda takes over the role of Osaka as the mercantile hotspot of the Kinki region ITTL, albeit with competition from Azuchi itself.
Considering that Sakai is right next to it that makes sense but I don't think Azuchi would compete with Sakai since Sakai is a port city while Azuchi is an inland city. If anything they'd complement each other as Azuchi moves the goods further inland while another maritime route goes from Sakai to the kanto plain.
Now i wonder what happened to Chidori
Buddist will do what they always do kowtow to the new boss and as long they don't try something like that sect that clashed with oda, they will be fine, even if Oda hate Buddism for that BS, he is pragmatic enough to not try something now the mission is unify
For the far-off speculations for this timeline:
- Does the idea of an ATL Georgist/single land value tax ideology arising from Japan make sense? After all, it's Toyotomi Hideyoshi's land survey that has laid the ground for the kokudaka system IOTL. I don't see how the focus on land and its productivity will be any different for Nobunaga's government ITTL.
- Speaking of administration, what has happened to Ishida Mitsunari ITTL? Whoever gets him as a retainer can surely have their domain/province in order.
- What other ideas, ideologies, and innovations can arise from a "Japanese Hundred Schools of Thought"? Or, will such an "enlightenment" get squashed instead?
- What is the likeliest course of action that Japan will take with Korea for the foreseeable future? Is a Japanese invasion still likely/seriously considered by the Oda Chancellorship at this point in time, or will they pursue neutral to friendly relations?
- On the off-chance that this timeline is contrived to have the Ming collapse and have Japan invade China from the South - would the Japanese invading force try to enfeoff Chinese lands to the participating Samurai/footsoldiers through a local shogunate instead of relying solely on native Chinese administrators?
- Can the Japanese force in China be an expeditionary one ostensibly requested by the Ming or other pretenders to the Dragon Throne?
- Will a friendly Korea be willing to participate in the affairs of the collapsed China and even ally with Japan?
- What do you think is the best strategy for the Japanese invading force? I know you may not want to necessarily pursue this - but I just want to speculate on the campaigns and the end-results in Chinese culture and its political organisation.
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1. TTL Nobunaga's land survey is basically the same as OTL Hideyoshi's.
2. Mitsunari is a top administrator under Hashiba Hideyoshi in Harima province.
3. Right now, the Oda policy around expansion is mostly focused on Japanese mercantile and trade interests rather than empire-building or colonization. Hence, the Imjin war is butterflied away. For the time being, Korean-Japanese relations are significantly better and Azuchi has no interest in undertaking a conquest of Korea.
4. Can't say anything about the Ming as of now.
Nobunaga was never truly anti-Buddhism, if anything I feel like he was just against any organized religion that was capable and willing to initiate a popular uprising against him. My interpretation of Nobunaga is that to a certain extent, he believed in nothing but his own will and vision.
Also, Nobutada's agenda patronizes Buddhist institutions more than Nobunaga ever did so there's already a shift.
To an extent, yes, but Azuchi is like Edo IOTL where all the daimyo plus direct Oda vassals have residences there so that generates a lot of commerce alone.
Interesting
I was going to mention that Toyotomi did say his invasion of Korea was to fulfill Nobunaga's dream of a conquest of China, but that it might as well have been him bullshiting his way through to justify the invasion and that I was wondering which interpretation you'd go with
Seeing the Imjin War butterflied but the Ming's future still unclear is very exciting
Chapter 17: Circumnavigation of the Realm
Chapter 17: Circumnavigation of the Realm
With the additional men, supplies, and provisions, the new Azuchi outpost of Iriebashi was able to secure its footing and eventually even build a castle in the foothills where it would overtime overlook the growth of a mercantile population center. Nobuhide would be designated the overall governor of all Japanese-controlled possessions on Bireitou, with Ikeda Terumasa appointed the magistrate of Iriebashi. Further exploration of the island was made, often led by Yasuke, and trade relations with the tribes flourished, with deerskins and venison becoming early staple goods. As Iriebashi stabilized, many successful merchants would establish permanent branches of their enterprises through warehouses and lodgings. Seeing the promise of mercantile opportunity and territorial expansion, the Shimazu clan would even found an auxiliary port to Iriebashi that they would directly control called Mamezaki (豆崎) [1].
Nobuhide would sail back to Azuchi in 1592 to witness his nephew Nobunori’s genpuku ceremony and formally accept the newly created imperial title of Birei-no-Kami (美麗守). While there, he would tell stories of his time on the island, from the tribes he interacted with to the progress of Iriebashi and how it was starting to attract trade from the south to Nobunaga, Nobutada, vassals, merchants, and even Jesuits. Highly intrigued by these stories, Nobunaga himself desired to sail to the island and leave the confines of Azuchi.
This singular dream, however, would transform into a much more ambitious endeavor. After his official retirement, free of much formal duty, Nobunaga would announce a circumnavigation of the entire realm undertaken by him and the Azuchi navy. He not only wanted to see every corner of Japan but also display the power and prestige of the navy and government he had created.
Nobunaga set off in 1595 from Sakai with a fleet consisting of a dozen tekkousen and European style warships, including the Tensho-maru (天正丸), the fleet’s 120-ton flagship and the one Nobunaga himself would be on. Also onboard was Kuki Yoshitaka’s son, Moritaka (九鬼守隆), who served on behalf of his father. The fleet would first sail around Kishu before sailing straight to Kamakura. Awaiting him was Nagatoshi and many Kanto daimyo who had come to pay their respects to the retired chancellor of the realm. The fleet stayed in the harbor for a few days while Nobunaga toured the sights and discussed matters relating to governance with the Kanto Tandai.
Nobuhide would sail back to Azuchi in 1592 to witness his nephew Nobunori’s genpuku ceremony and formally accept the newly created imperial title of Birei-no-Kami (美麗守). While there, he would tell stories of his time on the island, from the tribes he interacted with to the progress of Iriebashi and how it was starting to attract trade from the south to Nobunaga, Nobutada, vassals, merchants, and even Jesuits. Highly intrigued by these stories, Nobunaga himself desired to sail to the island and leave the confines of Azuchi.
This singular dream, however, would transform into a much more ambitious endeavor. After his official retirement, free of much formal duty, Nobunaga would announce a circumnavigation of the entire realm undertaken by him and the Azuchi navy. He not only wanted to see every corner of Japan but also display the power and prestige of the navy and government he had created.
Nobunaga set off in 1595 from Sakai with a fleet consisting of a dozen tekkousen and European style warships, including the Tensho-maru (天正丸), the fleet’s 120-ton flagship and the one Nobunaga himself would be on. Also onboard was Kuki Yoshitaka’s son, Moritaka (九鬼守隆), who served on behalf of his father. The fleet would first sail around Kishu before sailing straight to Kamakura. Awaiting him was Nagatoshi and many Kanto daimyo who had come to pay their respects to the retired chancellor of the realm. The fleet stayed in the harbor for a few days while Nobunaga toured the sights and discussed matters relating to governance with the Kanto Tandai.
Tensho-maru
Nobunaga and the fleet would then set sail north to Hakodate. Awaiting him, unfortunately, was the news of Kakizaki Suehiro’s death at the age of 88, succeeded by his son Yoshihiro (蠣崎慶広) [2]. Nobunaga would spend some time visiting Suehiro’s grave and conversing with the new lord in Ezo. Meanwhile, a few Ainu traders interacted with the sailors and officers of the fleet. With the former amazed by the Azuchi navy’s technological prowess and the latter intrigued by the exoticness of the Ainu, a curious young Ainu lad would eventually voluntarily join the navy with the permission of Nobunaga himself. The lad’s name was Atuy Upash.
Depiction of the fleet’s tekkousen
After stopping at Hakodate, the fleet would turn southwards, sailing near the coast at certain population centers to project Azuchi’s naval power and grip the local populace and samurai in awe. Their next major stop would be at Shimonoseki (下関) in Nagato province (長門国), a growing port with the silver trade in particular flowing between it and Korea, where the fleet would wait out the typhoon season. Afterwards, the fleet would to proceed to Hakata (博多) in Chikuzen province, Nagasaki, and Kagoshima (鹿児島) in Satsuma province (薩摩国) before preparing for the final destination before concluding the circumnavigation.
It would be 1596 when Nobunaga would finally arrive in Iriebashi and witness the growth of Japan’s first truly overseas territory. Not only was he glad to see Nobuhide and Yasuke but he met some of the island’s tribal leaders, whom immediately bowed to him at his mere presence and stature. Ever curious even in his old age, Nobunaga was interested by their culture and accepted many of their gifts. Just before his departure to Sakai, he gave Yasuke a new surname. Henceforth, the African samurai would be referred to fully as Aguro Yasuke (阿黒弥助).
Nobunaga briefly stopped in Kagoshima once again before the fleet roared back into the port of Sakai, where a huge crowd of merchants, townspeople, foreigners, and samurai gathered. Word of Nobunaga’s journey around all of Japan had spread all over the realm and everyone who could wanted to see the fleet with their own eyes. In one bold stroke, Nobunaga had once again impressed upon all of Japan the power of the new government in a new, unchallengeable way even in his retirement.
[1]: IOTL’s Sua’o port
[2]: ITTL the Kakizaki clan don’t change their surname to Matsumae (松前)
It would be 1596 when Nobunaga would finally arrive in Iriebashi and witness the growth of Japan’s first truly overseas territory. Not only was he glad to see Nobuhide and Yasuke but he met some of the island’s tribal leaders, whom immediately bowed to him at his mere presence and stature. Ever curious even in his old age, Nobunaga was interested by their culture and accepted many of their gifts. Just before his departure to Sakai, he gave Yasuke a new surname. Henceforth, the African samurai would be referred to fully as Aguro Yasuke (阿黒弥助).
Nobunaga briefly stopped in Kagoshima once again before the fleet roared back into the port of Sakai, where a huge crowd of merchants, townspeople, foreigners, and samurai gathered. Word of Nobunaga’s journey around all of Japan had spread all over the realm and everyone who could wanted to see the fleet with their own eyes. In one bold stroke, Nobunaga had once again impressed upon all of Japan the power of the new government in a new, unchallengeable way even in his retirement.
[1]: IOTL’s Sua’o port
[2]: ITTL the Kakizaki clan don’t change their surname to Matsumae (松前)
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Taiwan is where he goes from 'strong guy' to superman. Malaria was bad on Taiwan, and only eradicated in 1965. I'm seeing a future academic paper: "Origin and Prevalence of Sickle-Cell Disorder in Bireitou"
What's Yasuke's surname mean?
Is buddhism main religion in formosa?
I am surprised no reaction from Suzuki Shōsan and takuan soho in case of buddhism at all.
I am surprised no reaction from Suzuki Shōsan and takuan soho in case of buddhism at all.
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