Mussolini died of old age, who is his successor ?

[Michel Van]

I working on "Kaiserreich a TL"
were you guest it Imperial Germany survive

my focus now on Italy and Mussolini in TL
He manage to get some of his goals of Neo Roman Empire in TL
(part of south Turkey, Cyprus, Korsika (and other parts of France), Malta and has Spain as allies
He crushed the Mafia in Italy, who goes in exile in France and other parts of Europe.

Here Mussolini dies of old age in 1969
Follow with uprise in Italian colonies like Libya with certain Gaddafi

my question, who could be his successor als new Duce in 1969 ?

 

[Deleted member 94680]

I’m not sure but Count Ciano? I would have said Marshal Badoglio, but he’ll be dead by the time of the succession. This is of course assuming a different TL where a more successful Italy means Ciano is still in favour of and supporting the Fascist regime.

 

[Thisisnotausername]

I working on "Kaiserreich a TL"
were you guest it Imperial Germany survive

Survives how, exactly? That you call this Kaiserreich suggests a CP win in WWI, but there are a lot of different ways that could go, even with the constraint that Mussolini's Italy has to arise in a recognizable form.

He manage to get some of his goals of Neo Roman Empire in TL
(part of south Turkey, Cyprus, Korsika (and other parts of France), Malta and has Spain as allies

And how does he manage all this? Cyprus and Malta in particular imply Italy winning a naval war against Britain, and that's not something you can just throw out in passing.

Here Mussolini dies of old age in 1969
Follow with uprise in Italian colonies like Libya with certain Gaddafi

Gaddafi was born c. 1942, more than twenty years after your POD. His very birth would be butterflied away by the changed circumstances, much less his assumption of a prominent role in Libyan politics.

my question, who could be his successor als new Duce in 1969 ?

More than forty years after the POD? Hard to say. That's a lot of time for things to diverge--there's a good chance it's someone who never rose to any prominence IOTL, maybe even someone who was never born IOTL, depending on how far back your POD is. The answer could even potentially be "nobody," if the Italian metropole joins the colonies in revolting and overthrows the fascist government.

 

[Enigmajones]

Just a point, depending on the alternate reality, someone like Balbo would be a good option. But that depends on how he handles Libya.

 

[Lalli]

I working on "Kaiserreich a TL"
were you guest it Imperial Germany survive

I assume that CPs wins Great War.

my focus now on Italy and Mussolini in TL
He manage to get some of his goals of Neo Roman Empire in TL
(part of south Turkey, Cyprus, Korsika (and other parts of France), Malta and has Spain as allies
He crushed the Mafia in Italy, who goes in exile in France and other parts of Europe.

So Italy is entering side of Entente, right? Otherwise there is not way how Musslini rises to power. And if CPs defeat Entente Italy Germany and Austria-Hungary are giving severe peace terms. Italy is not going expand anywhere. And how in the hell it manage take Malta and Cyprus which are still under British rule? And parts of Turkey. Even if Ottoman Empire still collapses, Germany is not going allow Italy do that.

Here Mussolini dies of old age in 1969
Follow with uprise in Italian colonies like Libya with certain Gaddafi

Probably bit stretched Mussolini living until 1969 altough not impossible. But even with this is some problems. If Italy manage to keep Libya until 1960's it would be totally Italised. Coastal region would be absolutely Italian speaking Catholic region. And Gaddafi probably would be butterflied away. And even if he still born he is living totally different world. And even if he manage rise some revolt against Italians, he will be crushed like a bug.

my question, who could be his successor als new Duce in 1969 ?

Impossible to answer. After over forty years after Mussolini's reign it could be almost anyone. Might be someone whom we haven't heard in OTL. Normally I would say Balbo but he would be over 70 years old. And that would depends how much he would be on favor of Mussolini. Galeazzo Ciano would be another possibility but it is not sure that he would rise to any kind of prominence ITTL and he would be almost 70 at this point.

So there would be several possibilities. And it is too possible that Italy returns to democracy soon after Mussolini's death.

 

[athgtq16129]

I don't remember the sources for this but I remember reading that Mussolini did in fact chose Italo Balbo to be the next Duce, after Balbo died from a friendly fire incident in 1940, Mussolini was thinking of choosing Galeazzo Ciano.

 

[Lalli]

I don't remember the sources for this but I remember reading that Mussolini did in fact chose Italo Balbo to be the next Duce, after Balbo died from a friendly fire incident in 1940, Mussolini was thinking of choosing Galeazzo Ciano.

POD is anyway 20 years earlier. Even if Balbo would remain in favor of Mussolini and is alive in 1969 he would be already 72/73 years old. And Ciano wasn't yet anything on Fascist movement in early 1920's. It might be that he never rise to prominence ITTL.

 

[athgtq16129]

POD is anyway 20 years earlier. Even if Balbo would remain in favor of Mussolini and is alive in 1969 he would be already 72/73 years old. And Ciano wasn't yet anything on Fascist movement in early 1920's. It might be that he never rise to prominence ITTL.

Does it matters if they're old? in a world where Fascism thrives, Fascist countries will eventually become gerontocracies anyway, and 73 isn't that old for a head of state, someone of this age can rule for at least 10 years.

 

[Michel Van]

Thanks for reply
For more on Kaiserreich a TL here https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/kaiserreich-a-tl.411319/reader/
Status major rewrite and changes for Version 2.0 (like removal of Nerve agent plot)

Post War German survive, while Austrian-Hungary and Ottoman collapse
USA remain Neutral except issue With Britain and Mexico.

And how does he manage all this? Cyprus and Malta in particular imply Italy winning a naval war against Britain, and that's not something you can just throw out in passing.

He manage to get agreement with Germany about France and Spain in 1930s, on Malta, Cyprus my error,
Also improvement in Italy Army and there equipment

And parts of Turkey. Even if Ottoman Empire still collapses, Germany is not going allow Italy do that.

That happen in aftermath of WW1 before Mussolini rise to power
The Italian Government wanted a "Victory" after defeat in 1917 and surrender to Germans (see TL ver 1.0)
Since Treaty of London promise the Italian a part of Turkey and Ottomans are easy enemies after Mustafa Kemal Pasha died on Spanish flu
German Empire has enough problems with collapse Austrian-Hungary and reshape Mitteleuropa, they drop the Ottomans
in favor of Greece and Bulgaria expansion into remains of Ottomans empire under bloody civil war.
Ironic both are also supported by Britain as partner in area.

And Gaddafi probably would be butterflied away.

for moment in TL he join 1963 the Italian army in Libya and is officer in 1969

Normally I would say Balbo but he would be over 70 years old. And that would depends how much he would be on favor of Mussolini. Galeazzo Ciano would be another possibility but it is not sure that he would rise to any kind of prominence ITTL and he would be almost 70 at this point.

It would be Ironic that Ciano follow as Duce and suddenly died of old age, Balbo is his successor and died also of old age soon after...

 

[Michel Van]

I check some dates

Mussolini born 1883 could reach a age of 85 in 1968.
Ciano born 1903 could reach a age of 80-90
Balbo born 1896 could reach a age of 80-90

if not happing like attempted murders or freak aircraft accidents..

 

[Geekhis Khan]

Ciano was his choice, Balbo was his fear, Faranacci might attempt a power play/coup.

 

[gaitskellitebevanite]

Balbo, Ciano or Grandi

 

[ShortsBelfast]

I don't think Grandi died until the 1980s OTL, plus Ciano would be 66, which isn't that incredibly old for a head of government.

 

[pls don't ban me]

Balbo. After Benny dies the king will pressure for Italo because he was more popular abroad and in italy. Also balbo is the real mastermind behind almost all of Mussolini's work in OTL

 

[kholieken]

The King of Italy.

One very dominant PM would be enough for monarchy. With Mussolini dead, there will be push to weaken fascist party and ensure monarch position.

 

[Michel Van]

Balbo, Ciano or Grandi

Grandi, who ?

After Benny dies the king will pressure for Italo because he was more popular abroad and in italy.

could be possible

King Viktor Emanuel III. died in 1947
his successor is Umberto II. (1904-1981)
(if not died in attempted murder as he visit Belgium 1929)
but there interesting thing about the King succession
Mussolini and Umberto to keep aloof, literal and political
it even went so far that Mussolini passed a law allowing the Fascist Grand Council to decide the succession in 1929.

And there is this issue the Fascist could use against Umberto II.
There were rumors that Umberto was more interested in Men, instead of his Wife Princess Marie José of Belgium.
Fact is that three out of the four royal children were conceived via artificial insemination
And there was the rumor, that the four royal child father was no other that Italo Balbo !

This scenario is quite fascinating:

Mussolini dies in his bed 1968
Balbo, Ciano start to fight who will be his successor in FGC
As King Umberto II. make his move push to weaken fascist party and to strengthen monarch position.
only find that Balbo, Ciano united and fight back, presenting the King allot of discrediting information about His private life and other issue
Also that Balbo appoint who is next in line of succession, what Umberto II. accept grinding his teeth
unknown to Ciano and Umberto II. that next on Italian throne is the child of italo Balbo

A to far fetch senario ?

 

[pls don't ban me]

Grandi, who ?


could be possible

King Viktor Emanuel III. died in 1947
his successor is Umberto II. (1904-1981)
(if not died in attempted murder as he visit Belgium 1929)
but there interesting thing about the King succession
Mussolini and Umberto to keep aloof, literal and political
it even went so far that Mussolini passed a law allowing the Fascist Grand Council to decide the succession in 1929.

And there is this issue the Fascist could use against Umberto II.
There were rumors that Umberto was more interested in Men, instead of his Wife Princess Marie José of Belgium.
Fact is that three out of the four royal children were conceived via artificial insemination
And there was the rumor, that the four royal child father was no other that Italo Balbo !

This scenario is quite fascinating:

Mussolini dies in his bed 1968
Balbo, Ciano start to fight who will be his successor in FGC
As King Umberto II. make his move push to weaken fascist party and to strengthen monarch position.
only find that Balbo, Ciano united and fight back, presenting the King allot of discrediting information about His private life and other issue
Also that Balbo appoint who is next in line of succession, what Umberto II. accept grinding his teeth
unknown to Ciano and Umberto II. that next on Italian throne is the child of italo Balbo

A to far fetch senario ?

meh. indeed there is the law about succession.BUT you forgot that both Ciano and Balbo had great relations with Umberto and the crown in general. While Ciano is practical and good, there is no debate in stating that Balbo was a league above in both diplomacy and leadership.
I can see Balbo as leader with ciano as right-hand supported by Umberto in exchange for his succession to the throne