Map Thread XVII

[fashbasher]

What are the other secession movements in TTL's USA, if there are any more of them?

Right-autistic libertarians are currently acquiring land in Alaska, but they are "true libertarians" and have no desire to attack or molest the "chatterbox hordes". California, Wyoming, and Hawaii all have outstanding secession requests with Congress (who won't vote on any of them), and ironically DC is debating seceding from the union too. There is also an LGBT territory forming in rural Northern California (adults are expected to have at least one gay experience before marriage), a gun-free gated community on one of the Long Island Sound's, ahem, islands (let's say Fishers Island or Block Island), and a Rastafarian theocracy in the Colorado Rockies. All of this is helped in part by a limited basic income that is only available to people living in rural areas as part of Republican President #48's (there were two Democrats between him and the Donald) plans to stimulate the rural economy and allow for "a multitude of nations and communities for every American to feel at home in."

 

[Historyman 14]

That's a fair assessment, though technically speaking they won the war where it didn't matter: outside of Germany. France hasn't quite lost the peace, at least when compared to Russia.

Revanchism is indeed on the rise. French resentment has also been fueling their vicious activities in North Africa.

Russia isn't really interested in clashing with the British. It has enough security obligations related to China in the east and the German puppets in the west to keep it occupied. The British, on the other hand, are more ambivalent about

Military technology is a few years ahead (think early 1940's tanks and more refined aircraft/weapons), with most powers attempting to modernize their armed forces. The two main thrusts of these efforts center around creating a sizable air force and mechanizing infantry. Tactics are going to be tried and tested in the next few years ITTL.

Egypt has a lot of control over the Red Sea thanks to its protectorate in the Hejaz. Egypt isn't happy about what the British are doing in Palestine, but the country's population distribution makes it vulnerable to British invasion and bombardment.

Ethiopia is looking eastward towards Somalia, but it is wary of engaging the European powers at this stage.

Italy and Yugoslavia have very bad relations, as both covet territory held by the other. Unfortunately for the Italians, their very lucky run with conquest is going to come to an end.

And for good reason: Both the Germans and Dutch got out with only minor territory lost, the Germans and Dutch still have they Colonial Empires, the Germans got the rest of Alsace-Lorraine (Freach speaking parts France got back be damn if it not the whole thing.) Germany annex Austria itself, using the collapsed of it allies as a shield, Germany's screw over of Russia, British control of Brittany.....

I can understand. Once China is (Presumably.) successful war against Japan and Korea, Russia is next.

Ethiopia just need to wait for the war to kick off to rush into Somalia when, and Italy gets the shit kick out of it.

In the case of Italy losing and losing badly, you can always have Germany and Yugoslavia break up Italy. ( Kingdom of Italy, the Kingdom of Naples, and Second Roman Republic, or something like that.)

What about Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, and Greece? (The rest of France and Russia Great War allies.) Seem more then likely then the first 3 would be close to Germany, and the Netherlands (In the face of Russia.) as would Turkey to get back Constantinople. (AKA: Greece has a very bad day.)

Is Bolivia and Peru still close to Argentina?

What about Spain itself? It avoid the Spanish-American War, but still lost its Empire after being force to either say it, or get kick out by local rebels.

 

[Petros >Peter Fergus<]

Here is a little teaser map, mainly playing around with new map making technics, but if you would like to see anything else from this timeline let me know

Neat!

>Germany

... good Germany or bad Germany?

 

[Venusian Si]

Mappo:

Excellent as always! Really curious what life would be like in this world.

And of course, some questions!

How many centenarians are there in the various bio-libertarian nations?

What are some of the other major American cities besides NY, LA, and Greater Miami?

Thanks!

 

[GDIS Pathe]

And for good reason: Both the Germans and Dutch got out with only minor territory lost, the Germans and Dutch still have they Colonial Empires, the Germans got the rest of Alsace-Lorraine (Freach speaking parts France got back be damn if it not the whole thing.

Well that area does contain the Metz Thionville region which produces 21.5 million of Germanies 35.5 million ton of ore so there is that

 

[Black]

Neat!

>Germany

... good Germany or bad Germany?

Democratic germany, allied to the UK, never was a full blown second world war, but many small proxy wars

Currently cold war in 1970 between 3 major factions
US, UK, Southern Italy and Germany vs. French commune, USSR, Republic of China and Northern Italy vs. Japan and India

along with various other minors allied to each one

 

[SirPaperweight]

"Today, we choose to ascend from the ruins of old and forge a new future for ourselves and for our people. Ours is not an easy journey; we will face great trials in our experiment in self-restoration. Our destiny is in our hands and our hands alone; we shall receive no help, no aid, no relief. But, with the work of our people, united in common cause and sharing the virtues of liberty, and by the grace of God, we shall have ourselves a nation."
—Jeremiah Wilkins, First Consul of the Carolina Republic
​

The Carolina Republic is the largest polity along the Eastern Seaboard of the former United States, with a population of over one million and with control over most of the Southeastern Coast of the continent. The Carolina Republic was founded in the year 84 A.E. (after the end) by representatives from the coastal towns of Beaufort, Charleston, Georgetown and Wilmington. The republic expanded rapidly in the following years, assuming effective control over most major population centers south of Virginia and east of the Appalachian Mountains. In recent times, the republic has committed its vast pool of resources to expanding south into Florida, west into the foothills of the Appalachians, and north into Virginia.

Much of the republic's history involves conflict with the various peoples and tribes of Appalachia. Carolina's western reaches have constantly been threatened by attack from the various tribes of Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky and West Virginia. The republic has spent much effort into pacifying, conquering or repelling these tribes, with limited success. A permanent Carolinian presence in the region began following the end of the Volunteer War in 204 with the establishment of the two military districts of Southern and Northern Appalachia, but raiding parties still threaten the republic's core to this day.

Citizens of the republic enjoy a high quality of life in comparison to the rest of postwar America, largely due to economic growth resulting from political stability and the rule of law. Trade with the Northeastern city-states and the Kingdom of Louisiana have also proven to be a lucrative source of wealth for the republic, and Carolinian merchants enjoy a significant amount of support from the state. Politically, the Carolina Republic is governed by the consul, elected by for a single two-year term and vested with executive authority, and the National Assembly, unicameral legislature of 100 members elected to six-year terms. The consul also acts as commander-in-chief of the Carolinian military.

Thanks to all the creators of the M-BAM for the base map.

 

[thisisspacejesus]

-snip-

Right.

Indeed. Russia is going to be watching the Manchurian War very closely.

That's Ethiopia's plan.

Italy won't get carved up, and Germany isn't interested in alienating the Italians when it already has to deal with France and Russia.

Romania is firmly in the German camp, and looks eagerly towards Bessarabia.

Bulgaria may dislike Russia and Greece, but her territorial ambitions in Yugoslavia and Romania, as well as her Orthodoxy, have slowly pushed her towards the Greeks and Russians.

Albania is now an Italian puppet/protectorate, but isn't necessarily unhappy with that role. Italian protection and the perceived chance to claim Albanian regions of Yugoslavia have made the country eager for war against Yugoslavia.

Greece, with Russian and French backing, is holding western Anatolia. The country is firmly in the Russian camp, but too distant for the Germans to really care about it.

Turkey is kept down with periodic Russian, French, and even Greek interventions. Dreams of reconquest are everywhere, but the country is too ravaged to do what it wants to at this point in time.

Bolivia and Peru are generally aligned with Argentina, but don't approve of any conquering of Chile.

Spain is generally neutral on the world stage. It's not an economic powerhouse, but the country is stable and able to maintain a decent armed forces and small colonial empire.

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

View attachment 365513 Here is a little teaser map, mainly playing around with new map making technics, but if you would like to see anything else from this timeline let me know

Is the misspelling of Lecco, Novara and Brescia intentional?

 

[Historyman 14]

Indeed. Russia is going to be watching the Manchurian War very closely.

That's Ethiopia's plan.

Italy won't get carved up, and Germany isn't interested in alienating the Italians when it already has to deal with France and Russia.

Romania is firmly in the German camp, and looks eagerly towards Bessarabia.

Bulgaria may dislike Russia and Greece, but her territorial ambitions in Yugoslavia and Romania, as well as her Orthodoxy, have slowly pushed her towards the Greeks and Russians.

Albania is now an Italian puppet/protectorate, but isn't necessarily unhappy with that role. Italian protection and the perceived chance to claim Albanian regions of Yugoslavia have made the country eager for war against Yugoslavia.

Greece, with Russian and French backing, is holding western Anatolia. The country is firmly in the Russian camp, but too distant for the Germans to really care about it.

Turkey is kept down with periodic Russian, French, and even Greek interventions. Dreams of reconquest are everywhere, but the country is too ravaged to do what it wants to at this point in time.

Bolivia and Peru are generally aligned with Argentina, but don't approve of any conquering of Chile.

Spain is generally neutral on the world stage. It's not an economic powerhouse, but the country is stable and able to maintain a decent armed forces and small colonial empire.

Oh. I see.

So I see Italy and Germany are allies. I know you said Italy's winning streak is going to end soon, but I would not mind seeing Italians and Germans beat up Yugoslavia.

It seem like Yugoslavia have most everyone gunning for it. (Italy, Albania, Bulgaria.)

Is the USA ready for war in South America?

 

[Isaac Beach]

So I took a somewhat long fishing trip (two weeks) in order to write, enjoy the holidays and extricate myself from some silly grief on this website. In doing so I also tried to find my will to make some original maps and one that has been scratching at the back of my mind is a scenario that isn't so much alternate history as future history. This is teased, in part, by the little pixel art in the top right corner of the map below.
The map is my take on Ultima Pangea, the next proposed super continent, or perhaps the initial merging before it. A similar map already exists, but I didn't think it was detailed enough for my purposes. I still need to make some alterations; not enough lakes, and Antarctica is too easily identifiable, but I like what I have here. I've tentatively called it 'Pangea Ultima V.I', as in Version Isaac. It's gonna be a fun little scenario.

 

[Baconheimer]

I've noticed that this scenario bears more than a passing resemblance to the 'New American Century' map by @rvbomally@The-Artist-64. I assure you that that is accidental, and that I've been working on this for a long time.

Patriotpunk, or if the War on Terror Never Ended​

• The exact POD of this world is unknown, but divergences become noticeable around the time of the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, with an even more trigger-happy Bush administration than OTL. These changes are enough to allow Bob Graham to win the Democratic primary in 2004. Ultimately, Bush wins reelection.
• As a lame-duck after 2004, George Bush goes hog-wild in his expansion of the War on Terror. In early 2005, American, British, and Australian forces swarm into Iran, quickly toppling the Islamist regime there. In response, levels of anti-American sentiment across the Arab world, and anti-Western terrorism skyrocket, causing US occupation of the increasingly unstable Libya, Syria, and Yemen.
• In Bush’s second term, Arnold Schwarzenegger becomes heir apparent for the Republican Party. Spearheaded by Senator Orrin Hatch, the 28th Amendment to the Constitution was ratified. The 28th Amendment, also known as the Equal Opportunity to Govern Amendment or Hatch Amendment allowed non-natural born citizens who had held American citizenship for 20 years to be serve as President. Though a number of political figures would become eligible for the Presidency under the Hatch Amendment, it was clear to nearly everyone that the bill was simply an attempt to get Arnold Schwarzenegger into the White House.
• In early January 2008, to discuss American-led and Israeli military engagements across the Arab world, a Conference is scheduled held in Beirut (one of the few “stable” Middle Eastern states) between Western and Israeli delegates. Included in the list of attendees was Vice President Dick Cheney. Being Lebanon, threats to the security of the attendees were taken seriously and upwards of a dozen plots were foiled. However, it was not enough. Air Force Two narrowly escaped being shot down by Al-Qaeda-aligned insurgents over the Eastern Mediterranean. But the American delegation was not out of the woodwork yet. After landing, the motorcade carrying Vice President Cheney was the target of a suicide helicopter attack. Cheney was killed instantly when the helicopter crashed into the Humvee carrying him, while Secretary of State Rice suffered from several injuries. Unsurprisingly, the American populace was furious. An ultimatum that would allow limited American occupation was delivered to Lebanon within 24 hours. The stubborn Lebanese government refused to accept the terms of the agreement, and within 48 hours, the United States and its allies had begun to occupy yet another Arab state.
• The United States was forced into yet another conflict in May 2008, when the North Koreans invaded the South. The Second Korean War proved to be the most conventional warfare for American forces since 1991, and fighting continued into the next year. War in Korea, as well as half a dozen Middle Eastern states was the backdrop to the Democratic and Republican conventions of 2008. Arnold Schwarzenegger had entered the 2008 primary season as the front-runner, and though other names appeared below his on the ballot, the primaries were hardly competitive, with only Governor Schwarzenegger and Representative Ron Paul receiving any notable number of votes. Schwarzenegger and Paul represented the pro- and anti-war factions of the Republican Party, respectively. At their convention, the Democrats recognized the clear advantage held by the Republicans going into the general election, and, in a move of national unity decided to endorse Arnold Schwarzenegger for President, while giving Democratic primary victor Senator John Edwards the slot of running-mate. The Republicans so liked the National Union ticket idea that they also selected Schwarzenegger/Edwards. In the face of the new National Union ticket, two candidates launched campaigns. Ron Paul, reprising his role of twenty years before, successfully sought the Libertarian nomination while Democratic Representative Marcy Kaptur went independent alongside comedian Al Franken. Both these candidates were radically opposed to the War on Terror, but agreed on little else. Unsurprisingly, the National Union ticket went on to victory, winning all but three states and the District of Columbia.
• The Schwarzenegger Administration was very similar to the Bush administration. In 2012, the President again faced only marginal opposition: Ron Paul again as a Libertarian and the actor Roseanne Barr as a member of the Peace and Freedom Party. Though all three candidates won states in the electoral college, Schwarzenegger was throughout the entire race the clear frontrunner. From 2009 to 2016, the United States expanded the list of enemies of the war on Terror. Following, the Colombian-requested invasion of Venezuela, the United States went to war with left-wing governments in Latin America. As expected, anti-American regimes in the Muslim world were toppled.
• On Christmas Day, 2009, the United States was rocked once again by a series of terrorist attacks. Using underwear bombs and other newly improvised weapons, six planes were brought down by Al-Qaeda that day, with another having been shot down by overly jumpy elements of the United States Air Force. The Christmas Day Bombings were used as an excuse by the Schwarzenegger regime to invade Nigeria alongside the British (who experienced the loss of a plane of their own the same day). When the targets of the American invasion were not found in Afghanistan, war was expanded to other countries believed to be holding the masterminds of the attacks. The Christmas Day Bombings also proved to be the nail in the coffin for commercial air traffic as the opinion the American people viewed it as simply unsafe. Early the next year, the Schwarzenegger administration pushed a bill through Congress to revitalize American railroads. At the present time, trains have become the transport of choice for American vacationers, while the old airline companies have begun to fall into bankruptcy.
• India and Pakistan went to war in 2010, and, despite attempts by every major nation to mediate the conflict before it went nuclear, nuclear weapons were used in warfare for the first time since 1945. Both competing states collapsed nearly instantaneously, and in their place were a host of different states, many of which were occupied by the United States on the grounds of harboring terrorists (which many actually did, though the ability of these new states to actually hunt them down is questionable)
• In 2016, the combined effort of a freshman class of anti-war Senators and grassroots activists led the Democratic Party to nominate its own candidate for the first time in over a decade. Barack Obama on Illinois rode a wave of anti-war sentiment to capture the nomination and then the White House in a four-way race against establishment Republican Governor Karyn Polito, Libertarian CEO John Donahoe of eBay, and radical leftist anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan. While campaigning, Obama promised an end to unnecessary foreign engagements, a position, that, while popular with the electorate, was not widely supported by members of the Republican Party and military-industrial complex. When Obama won the election in November, a plot was set in motion to remove him from power. The plot was first devised by the Republican Party, but they enlisted the assistance of the PMCs that had grown so powerful since 2001. On November 10th, 2017, the White House was stormed by Blackwater Security forces personally loyal to Erik Prince. Obama was deposed, and went into hiding in Switzerland. A new emergency regime was set up, with Erik Prince as acting administrator. An unprecedented crackdown on dissidents quickly occurred, as the very institutions designed to protect Americans for the last decade suddenly were turned against them. The original plan called for Prince to step down after Obama possible loyalists were disposed of, but Prince had other ideas. In spring 2018, Erik Prince declared himself President. The party plotters were furious and considered removing Prince from power by force, but realized it could not be done without a bloody, unpopular civil war. In the end, an olive branch was extended to the Republican Party, as one of their own was given the Vice-Presidential slot. A number of moderate, anti-war Republicans fled the country or disappeared from public life when they criticized the new government.
• In 2013, war came to South America. The attempted bombing of the Capitol by an anti-capitalist leftist resulted in the invasion of communist Colombia. The United States found itself opposed to the pink tide leftist states, and, alongside old allies and new ones (Colombia, Chile, and Ecuador) quickly defeated and occupied their enemies. Mexico was subject to American occupation as well, though as part of the war on drugs. American-aligned governors have set up their own de facto states in American-occupied areas throughout the country, and listen more to Washington than Mexico City.
• The United States of 2022 is a de facto police state, though the trappings of the old democratic republic are kept around as a façade. Erik Prince sits in the White House as the 46th President. The government is dominated by the Republican Party (the party of Prince), which largely follows the President’s commands for fear of the near-omniscient surveillance organizations digging up some dubious anecdote from their past. Though the United States functions as a dictatorship, the populace is largely docile. Whether this is because they truly believe the constant fearmongering from the government and largely pro-administration media, or because they fear internment in detention camps is up to debate. Whatever the reason, the United States is no longer the home of the free (though the still large numbers of men enlisting in the military prove the title land of the brave is as relevant as ever)
• The United States continues to occupy vast swathes of the world, and there is no sign that they will pack up anytime soon. The US military is large, but Private Military forces (Blackwater, Bancroft Global, and Transportation Security Associates among them) make up a good proportion of the occupation forces. In most of the occupied territories, the United States has created pro-American puppet governments, but it is clear that the real power lies in the hands of the American forces stationed there.
• The United States and its bloc are powerful in the world, and, to combat them, Russia and the European Union formed a loose alliance, the Rome Compact to oppose America. It is not incorrect to say that there is something of a cold war throughout the world, pitting the United States and its allies against the Eurasian bloc. However, while the two blocs are opposed, their conflict is really a war of words and ideas rather than actions. The United Nations General Assembly is in the frontlines of this war, as French-led delegates spend hours howling about American imperialism, while the United States tries to paint their opponents as too light on terrorism.
• While the United States occupies vast swathes of the world under false pretenses and the French howl of American imperialism in the United Nations, and as terrorists devise increasingly complex methods of massacring innocents and disrupting the infrastructure of the west sneaking bombs past the monolithic security agencies of their worn adversaries, the world is slowly sinking beneath the waves. Climate change is as big an issue as ever, and world governments are loath to do anything about. It’s not that science of rising seas and increasing temperatures are being hidden (well, except in the US where many researchers have been detained for other reasons) most simply find it hard to care about the workings of the environment when the United States is occupying millions of square miles of the Earth and being blown up by radical Islamists or communists is a (real or imagined) concern.
• Culturally, this world is surprisingly different from OTL. Patriotism is more widespread in the United States, and the population is more conservative (keep weed illegal! Gay marriage legal!?) Ideologies like democratic socialism have not caught on in the United States, likely because the internet has not developed nearly as much as it did IOTL. This can partly be attributed to surveillance and censorship. Social media never really took off, while a scare of smartphones being turned into bombs effectively ended technological advances in that direction. Even in 2022, email is the primary method of communication among citizens of the first world while mobile phones that don’t flip out are, like, so uncool.

And, as a bonus to flesh out the universe, some infoboxes of the US Presidential elections of 2016 and 2020.

Spoiler: Infoboxes

 

[Skallagrim]

Patriotpunk, or if the War on Terror Never Ended​

Well, that sucks for just about everyone. Makes OTL politics look totally calm and sane, really. My biggest doubts about realism concern the idea that the Democrats would go for a national unity ticket just because they can't win (I don't see that happening: national unity typically occurs only when the nation faces existential peril) and the notion that Prince's coup could just succeed without ending in a messy civil war. No way the generals are happy taking orders from a damned mercenary, so the Republicans who had intended to use him as a puppet only need to get some hadline military leaders on their side, and they've got a counter-coup that Prince really can't beat. Result: military junta controls the US, de facto or de jure. (The insane foreign policy can still end up the same way, even!)

Anyway, despite those minor points, it's certainly a very interesting scenario. One wonders how long this kind of imperialism can last. It's bound to be unsustainable in the long term. If we look at the fiscal realities of the USA in OTL, this ATL will see the USA collapse before long. Either the costs of the imperialist policies become unsustainable and the USA has to withdraw (likely following up militaritic imperialism with despotic isolationism), or the imperialism is maintained by cutting all other expenditures and raising taxes incredibly, thus turning the USA into a autocratic command economy army-with-a-country(-and-no-social-security-at-all-in-spite-of-really-high-taxes). Which spells messy revolution.

And after the US occupation ends, I can see the Islamic world turning into ISIS writ large. Very large.

I'm glad we're not living in this ATL!

 

[Black]

Is the misspelling of Lecco, Novara and Brescia intentional?

The basemap was in Italian. I probably just mixed the Italian and English spellings lol.

 

[SpicyJuan]

View attachment 365505
Here is the linguistic map for my ideal Europe. As you can see, it's much more linguistically diverse than Europe currently is, and it looks a lot more "traditional" (I modeled much of it after early 20th-century Europe). Celtic languages predominate in their countries of origin, and many in France speak Occitan and the langues d'oc, as well as a Norman language that is a mix between French and English with some influence from Norse and Celtic languages. Greek and Albanian are widespread in southern Italy, and German is as widespread as it was a century ago. Western Anatolia is Greek, but in Greece proper there is also many speakers of Albanian, Aromanian, and Bulgarian.

How did you achieve that pattern effect?

 

[Black]

How did you achieve that pattern effect?

It is easy to do, create it as a pattern on gimp and then simply fill the area you want with that pattern. or just create it once and copy and paste it where needed.

 

[Oliveia]

I'm planning on making stories out of this as-of-now unnamed timeline.
Main POD is 1961, where Oskar Becker is successful in assassinating Wilhelm I.

 

[Black]

I'm planning on making stories out of this as-of-now unnamed timeline.

Main POD is 1961, where Oskar Becker is successful in assassinating Wilhelm I.

I can't believe that since 1961 all that has happened, that is crazy.

 

[Gwrtheyrn Annwn]

I can't believe that since 1961 all that has happened, that is crazy.

I can't tell if you're joking or not, but I'm pretty sure he means 1861.

 

[thisisspacejesus]

Oh. I see.

So I see Italy and Germany are allies. I know you said Italy's winning streak is going to end soon, but I would not mind seeing Italians and Germans beat up Yugoslavia.

It seem like Yugoslavia have most everyone gunning for it. (Italy, Albania, Bulgaria.)

Is the USA ready for war in South America?

Yup.

They're not allies, merely ambivalent towards each other. Yugoslavia will get its due in time.

Lots of countries are gunning for Yugoslavia, the problem is that they're disunited and not ready to fight at the same time. And Yugoslavia is aligned with Russia, so it has some nice diplomatic support.

The US is ready for a relatively small scale fight like the Argentina-Chile conflict, but not a major war. American military production is going to see a big spike during this conflict, and fighting will take place in both the Pacific Ocean and the Atlantic Ocean. Deployment is going to be one of the larger issues for the Americans during this conflict.