List of Alternate Presidents and PMs II

[King Jasper]

If you can think of a good general conflict over WWII and how this should continue, I'd be happy

The Harding Crash

29(first term): Warren G Harding/Calvin Coolidge(1921-1925)[1]
-Election of 1924: Frank O Lowden/William Borah(Republican) vs Al Smith/Oscar Underwood(Democrat) vs Robert M.La Follette Sr/Burton K Wheeler(Progressive)[2]
30(first term): Al Smith/Oscar Underwood(1925-1929)[3]
-Election of 1928: Al Smith/Nellie Tayloe Ross(Democrat) vs Herbert Hoover/Charles Curtis(Republican)[4]
30(second term): Al Smith/Nellie Tayloe Ross(1929-1933)[5]
-Election of 1932: Franklin D Roosevelt/Nellie Tayloe Ross(Democrat) vs John Nance Garner/Joseph P Kennedy Sr(New Democrat) vs Herbert Hoover/James Wadswolf(Republican) vs William Z Foster/James W Ford(Communist)[6]
31(first term): Herbert Hoover/James Wadswolf(1933-1937)
-Election of 1936: Herbert Hoover/James Wadswolf(Republican) vs Franklin D Roosevelt/Joseph P Kennedy Sr(Democrat) vs Huey Long/Henry Wallace(Share Our Wealth/"Kingfish" Party)[7]
32(first term): Franklin D Roosevelt/Joseph P Kennedy Sr(1937-1941)[8]
-Election of 1940: Franklin D Roosevelt/Joseph P Kennedy Sr(Democrat) vs Herbert Hoover/Thomas Dewey(Republican)[9]
33(second term): Herbert Hoover/Thomas Dewey(1941-194?)

[1]Harding lives through his term. This is somehow worse for him than dying because the Teapot Dome scandal, his corrupt buddies, his inability to control Jerry, it all gets out and tanks his reputation while he's still breathing
[2]Because of Harding's tanked reputation, he doesn't even bother running and Coolidge doesn't because he was the VP at the time. Instead Frank Lowden does, choosing Borah as his VP
[3]It wasn't the landslide they were hoping for and the Progressives performed second to any third party attempt, but the Dems won. Al Smith, despite Catholic bigotry, was likable and seen as a non-controversial candidate. Underwood as VP served a popular figure because of his liberal views regarding race and gender, proving a detriment to the KKK
[4]Underwood had wanted to be nominated in 1924, and left the office for his own presidential ambitions. Sadly, he died shortly after he retired. Al Smith was soaring high and did something controversial-he chose the first female governor Nellie Tayloe Ross as his running mate. Most saw it as a publicity stunt, but it worked. The philanthropist Hoover and amiable Curtis were seen as the best chance to beat him.
[5]It was closer, but not that close. Smith's popularity waned somewhat in his second term, but with the worst of the Great Depression/many of its sources butterflied away he was still well-liked. Nellie would be the longest-lived VP at 101
[6]The Democrats were utterly split on FDR and JNG. It was a split on liberals/progressive and conservatives. Historians debate on who'd be the better choice. But that split spelled their doom like the Republicans in 1912, and with a Roosevelt to boot. Hoover took advantage of the situation, as did the rising Communist Party in William Z Foster. Foster would be assassinated a year after the elections out of the Red Scare growing at the time
[7]Most regarded Joe Kennedy's re-siding with FDR after Garner's break with the party brow-nosing, or just the popular Roosevelt wanting to mend broken ties with a not so dedicated New Democrat. Whatever the case, it worked, though only just. The election ended up going to HR due to third party Huey Long preventing anyone getting even. Of course, he knew he couldn't become president now or through it, but wanted to test the waters for a serious bid at the Democratic nomination
[8]FDR's term was haunted by the fact that he didn't win the popular or electoral vote, but got it through HR. Sure, he and Hoover were very close so it wasn't a JQA situation, but still. Some of his economic policies didn't win him any friends. While seen as a good president, he was never able to become the great president his famous namesake was
[9]Hoover has been nominated more than any candidate, and he was clearly popular enough. By his own admission however this was supposed to be the last time. Of course, the Republican Cleveland's attitudes might change if the wars in Europe and certain Pacific conflicts have anything to say about it

Abridged list

• 1-28: Unchanged
• 29: Warren G Harding/Calvin Coolidge(1921-1925)
• 30: Al Smith(1925-1933)/Oscar Underwood(1925-1929), Nellie Tayloe Ross(1929-1933)
• 31/33: Herbert Hoover(1933-1937, 1941-194?)/James Wadswolf(1933-1937), Thomas Dewey(1941-?)
• 32: Franklin D Roosevelt/Joseph P Kennedy Sr(1933-1937)

Interesting, not quite sure the effects of this on WW2, but I expect there will be a lot of butterflies.

Btw, why do you list presidents like that? Are you new? Here we show elections through those little "def" things, which show who was defeated in the election. For example, yours would look like:

1921-1925: Warren G. Harding/Calvin Coolidge (Republican)
def 1920: James M. Cox/Franklin Delano Roosevelt (Democratic)
1925-1933: Al Smith/Oscar Underwood (Democratic)
def 1924: Frank O Lowden/William Borah (Republican), Robert M.La Follette Sr/Burton K Wheeler (Progressive)
1933-1937: Herbert Hoover/James Wadswolf (Republican)
def 1932: Franklin D Roosevelt/Nellie Tayloe Ross (Democratic), John Nance Garner/Joseph P Kennedy Sr (New Democratic), William Z Foster/James W Ford (Communist)
1937-1941: Franklin Delano Roosevelt/Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. (Democratic)
def 1936: Herbert Hoover/James Wadswolf (Republican), Huey Long/Henry Wallace (Share Our Wealth Party)
1941-194?: Herbert Hoover/Thomas Dewey (Republican)
def 1940: Franklin Delano Roosevelt/Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. (Democratic)

 

[Mumby]

Interesting, not quite sure the effects of this on WW2, but I expect there will be a lot of butterflies.

Btw, why do you list presidents like that? Are you new? Here we show elections through those little "def" things, which show who was defeated in the election. For example, yours would look like:

1921-1925: Warren G. Harding/Calvin Coolidge (Republican)
def 1920: James M. Cox/Franklin Delano Roosevelt (Democratic)
1925-1933: Al Smith/Oscar Underwood (Democratic)
def 1924: Frank O Lowden/William Borah (Republican), Robert M.La Follette Sr/Burton K Wheeler (Progressive)
1933-1937: Herbert Hoover/James Wadswolf (Republican)
def 1932: Franklin D Roosevelt/Nellie Tayloe Ross (Democratic), John Nance Garner/Joseph P Kennedy Sr (New Democratic), William Z Foster/James W Ford (Communist)
1937-1941: Franklin Delano Roosevelt/Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. (Democratic)
def 1936: Herbert Hoover/James Wadswolf (Republican), Huey Long/Henry Wallace (Share Our Wealth Party)
1941-194?: Herbert Hoover/Thomas Dewey (Republican)
def 1940: Franklin Delano Roosevelt/Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. (Democratic)

There's no need to be like that - I remember a time when it was considered a novelty to put the defeated tickets in a list.

 

[TwiliAlchemist]

Royal Family of the United Kingdom of America

Spoiler

Washington Dynasty (1789-1857)
Spotswood Dynasty (1857-1994)
Pauline Dynasty (1994-0000)

1. George I (George Washington) (1789-1799) [1]
2. George II (George Washington Parke Curtis) (1799-1857) [2]
3. Spotswood I (Spotswood Washington) (1857-1865) [3]
4. Bushroot I (Bushroot Washington II) (1865-1918) [4]
5. James I (James Washington) (1918-1924) [5]
6. Lee I (Lee Washington) (1924-1969) [6]
7. William I (William Washington) (1969-1994) [7]
8. Paul I (Paul Washington) (1994-2014) [8]
9. Richard I (Richard Washington) (2014-0000) [9]

[1] George Washington accepted the position of King of America and ruled for ten years before his death in 1799.
[2] The royal throne passed to his adopted son George Washington Parke Curtis. While many would think of him as a just king, some disliked that this monarch would even rule at all.
[3] Spotswood inherited the throne after the death of George II. With his ascension to the throne, pro-Republican factions in the nation rose up in the northern part of the nation forming the Freedonian Republic. The war would last from 1858-1865 with the monarchists winning the war thanks to help from their ally of Spain.
[4] Bushroot I would oversee the reconstruction of the north. He chose to give some of the more rebellious states slightly more autonomy from the monarchy in hopes that it would quell rebellion. While his reign would be plagued by terrorist actions in the north, most of his time as ruler was mostly peaceful, unlike his successor.
[5] After the death of his father, James I would take the throne. His reign would be overseeing the Great War of Europe (1917-1925). He allied America to the Allied nations of France, Britain, and Russia. He would die before the war ended.
[6] Lee I would take the United Kingdom of America in a new direction, helping create the League of Countries after the Great War. He would also be ruler as the monarchy went from having power to being only a figurehead in the nation. His reign would be over the passing of multiple civil rights legislation in the 1940s and 1960s.
[7] William I would be king during the American Space Age where the UKA would put a man on the moon and sent multiple probes into space. The Space Age would end with the death of William in 1994. Upon his death, he would formalize the rule that female members of the royal family can inherit the throne.
[8] Paul I was a distant relative of the Washington family and the next male heir. His rule is marked by a period of decline in the UKA, leaving many to feel that the monarchy might need to be abolished completely.
[9] Richard I is the current reigning monarch of the UKA. He has had to deal with a growing reemergence of the American Republican Movement, especially in the provinces of New England, New York, and Louisiana.

Presidents of the Freedonian Republic
1858-1861: William Lloyd Garrison (Revolutionary-NY)/Amos Bronson Alcott (R-CT)
def. Unopposed
1861: Amos Bronson Alcott (R-CT)/vacant
1861-1864: Amos Bronson Alcott (R-CT)/John C. Frémont (R-GA)
1864-1865: John C. Frémont (R-GA)/vacant

Leader of the Liberty Party (1942-0000)
*Left-Wing Anti-Monarchist
*Right-Wing Anti-Monarchist
1942-1961: Lee Pressman (NY)
1961-1997: Barry Goldwater (VA)
1997-1998: Ronald Paul (PA)
1998-2000: Gus Hall (MN)
2000-2004: State Senator Earl Johnson (ND)
2004-2018: Governor-General Bernard Sanders (NY)
2018-Present: State Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (NY)

As of 2019: Represented in Nation:
State Governor-Generals: 1
Provincial Governorship: 0
Seats in Senate: 2
Seats in House of Representatives: 15
Seats in State Senates: 9
Seats in State Houses: 74

 

[BlackentheBorg]

Presidents of the United States
2059-2062: Theodore Kushner/Mariya Tikhonova (Republican)
defeated Carina Castro/True Kander (Democratic)
Presidents of the United States (figurehead)
2062-2064: Theodore Kushner†/Mariya Tikhonova† (Republican)
[later executed]
Majority Leaders of the Public Committee
2062-2067: Charlie Barbe (Guardian), Bernie Vilsack (Centrist), Jeanne Brant (Radical)
Leaders of the National Legislature
2067-2068: Joseph La Follette (N/A)
[appointed by Public Committee]
2068-2070: George Dayton (Freedom and Equality)
[unopposed]
2070-2074: Max Robinson (Freedom and Equality)
[unopposed]
Leaders of the New American Directorate
2074-2079: Paul Barrett (New Republican)
[ascending]
Administrators of the Second American Republic
2079-????: Leon Barropole (Independent)
[ascending]

Anyone wanna guess the analogue?

 

[King Jasper]

Presidents of the United States
2059-2062: Theodore Kushner/Mariya Tikhonova (Republican)
defeated Carina Castro/True Kander (Democratic)
Presidents of the United States (figurehead)
2062-2064: Theodore Kushner†/Mariya Tikhonova† (Republican)
[later executed]
Majority Leaders of the Public Committee
2062-2067: Charlie Barbe (Guardian), Bernie Vilsack (Centrist), Jeanne Brant (Radical)
Leaders of the National Legislature
2067-2068: Joseph La Follette (N/A)
[appointed by Public Committee]
2068-2070: George Dayton (Freedom and Equality)
[unopposed]
2070-2074: Max Robinson (Freedom and Equality)
[unopposed]
Leaders of the New American Directorate
2074-2079: Paul Barrett (New Republican)
[ascending]
Administrators of the Second American Republic
2079-????: Leon Barropole (Independent)
[ascending]

Anyone wanna guess the analogue?

French Revolution, right?

 

[Psmith]

And then things got worse...

1937-1940 Neville Chamberlain (CON leading National Government)
1940 Edward Wood, Lord Halifax (CON leading National Government)
1940-47 Thomas Inskip, Lord Caldecote (CON leading National Government)
1947-60 Aneurin Bevan (LAB)
1960-65 Hugh Gaitskell (LAB)
1965-68 Rab Butler (CON)
1968-75 Roy Jenkins (LAB)
1975-77 David Steel (LIB leading CON-LAB-LIB Grand Coalition)
1977 Enoch Powell (CON leading CON-LAB Grand Coalition)
1977-89 Edward Heath (UN/F)
1989-91 Norman Lamont (UN/F)
1991-97 David Owen (UN/F)
1997- Gordon Brown (UN/F)

Britain goes to war with the USSR as well as Germany in 1939, and after a disastrous expedition to relieve Finland Neville Chamberlain resigns as PM. Halifax replaces him just as Germany invades France, but Fall Gelb ends up bogging down and a military coup in Berlin kicks out Hitler and lets Goering take over. The former foreign secretary sees an opening to end hostilities and manages to win an armistice between Germany and the Entente on November 11th 1940, 22 years after the last one, before resigning due to a minor heart attack. He is succeeded by Thomas Inskip, selected by the Magic Circle fearful that Churchill would destroy the peace. Under his watch, Britain and France form the Triumvirate Powers with Germany and invade Russia, much to the chagrin of the British who feel their boys are dying for a German war, in the service of a bloodthirsty foreign regime — which they are. Inskip's popularity tanks and he refuses to call an election until the Treaty of Minsk forces the USSR behind the Urals in 1947. By this time, Germany has had another coup and the military have formally taken over, giving their occupied territories nominal independence as satellite states (European Russia, sans Ukraine, Belarus and the Caucasus, has just been left to fester as an independent Republic), having only withdrawn from Belgium in a token gesture. Aneurin Bevan is swept to power in a landslide (Attlee having died in a car accident in 1944) just as the Phoney War sets in: the geopolitical rivalry between Germany and Britain/France is now spreading across the world. Bevan's desire to implement social reforms is hindered by the realities that military spending has to stay high to shore up the Commonwealth of Nations (now a military-political-economic bloc including France) against the German Weltsystem, but he accomplished enough to stay in office all the way through the 1950s with National Health Insurance and British Rail enough to satisfy most people. Meanwhile, the Conservatives slowly recover but face a challenge with the split of several pro-German MPs to form the Unity-Front, in favour of closer ties with the Reich. Bevan is succeeded by Hugh Gaitskell in 1960, who calls a snap election to shore up his legitimacy later that year but sees a loss of 60 seats to the Conservatives and Unity-Front, narrowing his majority to 6.

In 1965, after the shambolic Iraqi Emergency that ends with British withdrawal from country, Gaitskell is toppled in a vote of no confidence that leads to Rab Butler becoming PM. He is preoccupied with higher defence spending at the expense of domestic welfare, as the Weltsystem, Japanese Co-Prosperity Sphere and Italian Verona Pact challenge the Commonwealth all over the world. However, it's not enough to stop a German-backed coup in Iran leading to a low-level war over the British-controlled oil fields, which Britain ultimately concedes as casualties mount. It becomes Butler's turn to be toppled in a vote of no-confidence and Roy Jenkins becomes PM with a majority of 12 — the Unity Front wins 45 seats and 15% of the vote on a platform of disentanglement with foreign engagements. It picks up veteran of the Iraqi Emergency, Edward Heath, in the aftermath. Jenkins' ministries are high-minded but ultimately self-destructive: he simply doesn't have the parliamentary manpower to force through his more controversial social reforms and growing pressures abroad such as in South Africa, India and even Quebec mean that money that could go toward Universal Healthcare doesn't. In 1970, Britain and France launch a joint intervention in the Belgian Congo, where a communist-nationalist coalition of guerillas has risen with backing from Germany. Their first contributions are meagre and the issue is peripheral to the 1972 election, which sees a trickle of gains for the Unity-Front and Jenkins lose his majority to become dependent on Liberal supply-and-confidence. However, the conflict soon begins to escalate as tens of thousands of men are committed to the jungle quagmire and it becomes a major issue in British politics. The Unity-Front win plaudits for their opposition to the war and adopt British withdrawal from the Commonwealth as a key policy platform, with foreign disentanglement and military spending cuts used to support social reform at home. The authoritarian nature of its members are conveniently ignored by most.

In 1975, the Reorganised Nationalist Government of China falls to a sustained campaign of fighting from Soviet-backed freedom fighters, and China subsequently is outright annexed into the rump Soviet Union. The Co-Prosperity Sphere collapses and this, coupled with the fall of a string of American banks with strong interests in Asia, leads to an economic collapse across the USA and Commonwealth (the Weltsystem's economy is relatively unaffected). The election of that year brought about by another no-confidence motion sees the Unity-Front emerge with 197 seats and 34% of the vote, with the Conservatives on 234, Labour on 198 and the Liberals on 20. Determined to keep the U/F away from power, Labour and the Conservatives agree to form a grand coalition to tackle the economic crisis along with the Liberals. David Steel becomes PM as a "neutral" figure to mediate disputes between Labour and Tory ministers as they grapple such contentious issues. However, he finds the going too tough and after the horrific Stanleyville Massacre of 1977, resigns and brings the Liberals back into opposition. Enoch Powell becomes PM for 3 weeks, with Labour abandoning the coalition in protest of his ascension to office without prior discussion (Steel felt, as leader of the largest party in the coalition, Powell could be the only successor and so recommended him to the Queen). A general election follows and the Unity-Front win a landslide with 401 seats.

Edward Heath becomes PM and immediately withdraws Britain from the Commonwealth, causing the blocs collapse, and generally isolates the country diplomatically while embarking on a range of internal reforms. The economy is restructured with enormous state housing and industrial programmes, aimed at boosting exports while restricting imports with harsh tariffs. The City of London ceases to be a financial centre but the flagging industrial regions are revived. Universal Healthcare is implemented, while vast infrastructure projects help raise unemployment while also keeping British Rail on its toes. But there are also grave issues: with the Opposition now tiny, divided and discredited, it becomes little more than tokenistic. A surge in Irish terrorism and the historic social strife of the 1970s leads to harsh security measures that happen to make political action that doesn't toe the U/F's line very difficult. The Press finds its freedom restricted as the BBC becomes an apparatchik for the government and nothing more. The electoral system is reformed per the "Bennite Taylor System", which supposedly makes results fairer but in fact involves gerrymandering and regulation to such an extent that the U/F now has a built-in advantage come the 1982 election. This sees Heath win 512 out of 700 seats, with the Liberals, Conservatives and Labour getting roughly equal slices of what's left. The British Constitution of 1983 entrenches authoritarianism in Britain, giving wide-ranging powers to the quadripartite executive (Foreign Minister, Domestic Minister and Defence Minister, led by the Prime Minister), abolishing the House of Lords and establishing a network of protocols to restrict freedom of speech and the system of election to secure the U/F's powerful position. The British economy begins to recover in the 1980s and so the negative ramifications for these changes are largely unnoticed, even as citizens begin to disappear for their political views and a culture of informants and mass surveillance is embedded into society. In 1989, Heath is shot and killed by a left-wing radical and is succeeded by Norman Lamont, who has plotted for years to seize power from his post as Domestic Minister. However, he only lasts until 1991 when that year's Trade Union Bill (in which the Government tried to take direct control of the TUC) prompts a general strike and mass protests across the street of London. Lamont resigns and it appears a free election might be called in which the Conservative-and-Labour Democratic Alliance would actually have a fighting chance.

Instead David Owen, former Foreign Minister, takes charge. He attempts to transform the UK forever with an ideological project that would mesh the Unity-Front with British Society as part of the "Social Nation". Party membership becomes a prerequisite for several jobs, the BBC comes under direct party control, the Pledge of Allegiance becomes one to the Monarch and the Party, and he even tries to change the flag to the Unity-Front's emblem. His revolution seems unstoppable and the nation is caught in what is later called "the Insanity". However when he tries to take Britain into the Weltsytsem that's a bridge too far and he is outmanoeuvred by Finance-Minister Gordon Brown, who assumes the premiership and undoes all of Owen's reforms while sending the man himself to become governor of Sierra Leone. Owen is hitherto all but purged from the history books, leaving most of the 1990s a void in the British national psyche. Brown has ruled Britain since 1997, and seen business as usual return and more. Under his watch, Britain's economy has boomed while Germany's flailed in the Millenial Depression, and it has even joined the World-Market: a trade area tied to West-Euro (the Franco-Italian-Spanish Western European superstate that stands against German domination of Europe), of which it has hosted the HQ since 2016. But while it might have all the money in the world, it is bare of all but the most vesitigial traces of democracy: the Unity-Front faces no challenge in Parliament to speak of and on the ground is propped up by either tempered support or that worse enemy of democracy: apathy. After all, look how bad things were before! This can't be worse, can it...?

 

[BlackentheBorg]

French Revolution, right?

Got it in one, my dude. The original draft had a whole thing about Jean-Paul Marat being a youtube leftypol vlogger under the alias "Maurader1", but it ran out of steam very quickly.

 

[Mumby]

A little thing based on this bit in Tony Benn's diary that he was contacted in 1981 by a New Statesman journalist who alleged that Airey Neave, had planned to assassinate Benn if the Callaghan government was re-elected and it looked likely that Callaghan would retire and Benn would become the new Prime Minister.

Benn never gave the story any credence, but these are the molehills upon which we build the mountains of uchronia.

Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

1976-1980: Jim Callaghan (Labour)
1978 (Majority) def. Margaret Thatcher (Conservative), David Steel (Liberal), William Wolfe (Scottish National), Harry West (Ulster Unionist)
1980-1980: Tony Benn (Labour majority)
1980-1981: Denis Healey (Labour majority), Acting
1981-1982: Eric Heffer (Labour majority)
1982-1984: Jim Prior (Conservative)
1983 (Majority) def. Eric Heffer (Labour), Willie MacRae (Scottish National), David Steel (Liberal), Robert Bradford (Ulster Unionist), Roy Jenkins (Social Democratic)
1984-1993: Michael Heseltine (Conservative)
1988 (Majority) def. Michael Meacher (Labour), Cyril Smith (Third Force), Robert Bradford (Ulster Unionist), Winnie Ewing (Scottish National)
1993-0000: Michael Meacher (Labour)
1993 (Majority) def. Michael Heseltine (Conservative), Jean Lambert & Winnie Ewing (Ecologist-SNP Alliance), Robert Bradford (Ulster Unionist), Cyril Smith (Third Force)
1995 (Majority) def. David Owen (National Democratic), Jean Lambert & Margaret Ewing (Ecologist-SNP Alliance), Robert Bradford (British Unionist), Richard Body (Oakleaf)
2000 (Coalition with Green Millennium) def. David Owen (National Democratic), Jean Lambert (Green Millennium), Robert Bradford (British Unionist), Edward Leigh (Oakleaf)

 

[dw93]

Bush wins only to Lose:

41. George Bush / Dan Quyale (Republican): 1989-1994 [1]
Def. 1988: Michael Dukakis / Lloyd Bentsen (Democratic)
Def. 1992: Bill Clinton / Al Gore (Democratic), Ross Perot / Jerry Brown (Independent)
42. Dan Quayle / Vacant (Republican): 1994
42. Dan Quayle / Bob Dole (Republican): 1994-1997
43. Ann Richards / Dick Gephardt (Democratic): 1997-2005
Def. 1996: Dan Quayle / Bob Dole (Republican), Ross Perot / Pat Choate (Reform)
Def. 2000: Newt Gingrich / John Engler (Republican), Donald Trump / Lowell Weicker (Reform)
44. Dick Gephardt / Gary Locke (Democratic): 2005-2009
Def. 2004: Tom Ride / Chuck Hagel (Republican), Jessie Ventura / Ron Paul (Reform)
45. John McCain / Joe Lieberman (Unity): 2009-2013 [2]
Def. 2008: Dick Gephardt / Gary Locke (Democratic), Mitt Romney / Sam Brownback (Republican), Jesse Ventura / Dennis Kucinich (Reform)
46. Jon Huntsman / Mitch Daniels (Republican): 2013-2021
Def. 2012: Russ Feingold / Mark Warner (Democratic), Joe Lieberman / Charlie Crist (Unity)
Def. 2016: Joe Biden / Barack Obama (Democratic)
47. Elizabeth Warren / Steve Bullock (Democratic): 2021-2029
Def. 2020: Mitch Daniels / Nikki Haley (Republican)
Def. 2024: Ted Cruz / Mike Lee (Republican)

[1]= George Bush gets re elected in 1992 thanks to the third party candidacy of Ross Perot, who with his running mate Former Democratic Governor Jerry Brown, split the "change" vote with Democratic nominee Bill Clinton and running mate Al Gore. After getting re elected, despite the advice of Attorney General William Barr, President Bush does not pardon Caspar Weinberger and others involved in the Iran Contra Affair of the Reagan administration. The investigation into the affair by Lawrence Walsh would implicate Bush in the affair. Facing the possibility of removal from office for trying to obstruct the investigation, Bush resigned in June of 1994, resulting in Dan Quayle becoming President. Quayle would then Pardon Bush after the November 1994 midterm elections.

[2]= Declines to seek re election in 2012 due to health problems.

 

[Wendell]

In honor of Ross Perot having just died, let us suppose he had won, and that his election, while not resulting in a new party, began a trend and spurred mass movements around independent candidates:

Businessman H. Ross Perot / Admiral James Stockdale (United We Stand America) 1993-2001[1]
def 1992: Governor Bill Clinton/Senator Al Gore (Democratic); President George Bush/Vice President Dan Quayle (Republican)
def 1996: Senator Bob Dole/Secretary Jack Kemp (Republican); Governor Mario Cuomo/Senator Sam Nunn (Democratic)
Businessman Donald J. Trump / Senator Robert "Bob" Smith (Make America Great Again) 2001-2009[2]
def 2000: Senator Bill Bradley/Senator Bob Graham (Democratic); Governor George W. Bush/Chief of Staff Richard (Dick" Cheney (Republican)
def 2004: Senator John S. McCain III/Kay Bailey Hutchinson (Republican); Senator John Kerry/Senator John Edwards (Democratic)
Mayor Michael Bloomberg / Senator Dean Barkley (Unity '08) 2009-2017[3]
def 2008: Senator Sam Brownback/Senator Fred Dalton Thompson (Republican); Governor Tom Vilsack/Representative Dennis Kucinich (Democratic)
def 2012: Governor Jon Meade Huntsman Jr./Representative Thaddeus McCotter (Republican); Governor Martin O'Malley/Senator Chris Dodd (Democratic)
Governor Robert Sarvis / Representative Justin Amash (Libertarian) 2017-2025[4]
def 2016: Senator Rafael Edward "Ted" Cruz/Governor Mike Pence (Republican); Senator Bernie Sanders/Senator Harold Ford Jr. (Democratic); Senator Charlie Crist/Senator Greg Orman (Unity '16)
def 2020: Senator Joe Sestak/Representative Tulsi Gabbard (Democratic); Governor Phil Scott/Senator Rand Paul (Republican); Businessman Andrew Yang/Representative John Delaney (Unity '20)

1. The Perot administration proved to be broadly popular, but faced criticism in elite circles for a foreign policy seen as largely deteriorating U.S, leadership on the world stage in the years after the end of the cold war.
2. President Trump's war on terrorism might have been more successful abroad had President Perot not dissolved NATO, or so the MAGA folks claim.
3. Unlike the last two independent presidents, Bloomberg came into office wit prior political experience. He was criticized across the spectrum for combining the worst of Trumpism and the worst of Perotism with the worst of '70's progressivism and faced further criticism for attempting to rebuild an overtly militaristic foreign policy.
4. The election of Sarvis and Amash was viewed as a backlash against the excesses of the Bloomberg era. Unfortunately for them, serious libertarian candidacies down-ballot split enough votes to give them plenty of headaches in Congress.

 

[Deleted member 87099]

A little thing based on this bit in Tony Benn's diary that he was contacted in 1981 by a New Statesman journalist who alleged that Airey Neave, had planned to assassinate Benn if the Callaghan government was re-elected and it looked likely that Callaghan would retire and Benn would become the new Prime Minister.

Benn never gave the story any credence, but these are the molehills upon which we build the mountains of uchronia.

Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

1976-1980: Jim Callaghan (Labour)
1978 (Majority) def. Margaret Thatcher (Conservative), David Steel (Liberal), William Wolfe (Scottish National), Harry West (Ulster Unionist)
1980-1980: Tony Benn (Labour majority)
1980-1981: Denis Healey (Labour majority), Acting
1981-1982: Eric Heffer (Labour majority)
1982-1984: Jim Prior (Conservative)
1983 (Majority) def. Eric Heffer (Labour), Willie MacRae (Scottish National), David Steel (Liberal), Robert Bradford (Ulster Unionist), Roy Jenkins (Social Democratic)
1984-1993: Michael Heseltine (Conservative)
1988 (Majority) def. Michael Meacher (Labour), Cyril Smith (Third Force), Robert Bradford (Ulster Unionist), Winnie Ewing (Scottish National)
1993-0000: Michael Meacher (Labour)
1993 (Majority) def. Michael Heseltine (Conservative), Jean Lambert & Winnie Ewing (Ecologist-SNP Alliance), Robert Bradford (Ulster Unionist), Cyril Smith (Third Force)
1995 (Majority) def. David Owen (National Democratic), Jean Lambert & Margaret Ewing (Ecologist-SNP Alliance), Robert Bradford (British Unionist), Richard Body (Oakleaf)
2000 (Coalition with Green Millennium) def. David Owen (National Democratic), Jean Lambert (Green Millennium), Robert Bradford (British Unionist), Edward Leigh (Oakleaf)

When does Benn's offing go public?

 

[Mumby]

When does Benn's offing go public?

I imagined it would be a public assassination, made to look like the IRA.

 

[Deleted member 87099]

I imagined it would be a public assassination, made to look like the IRA.

Interesting. But I guess I was asking if the secret ever got out?

 

[redjirachi]

Compendium Of Interesting Presidents

Here is a brief summary of alternate history presidents that I think would be fertile ground for presidential lists, drama and alternate histories.

• Aaron Burr/Thomas Jefferson(1801-1805): Because of the weird tie pre 12th amendment, Burr almost became president and Jefferson his VP. The power struggle between the two would be something to behold. I imagine the way he came into office might screw both of them over on re-election. Might we see an early Madison presidency? One thing's for sure; Hamilton will still be alive because there's not going to be a duel with an incumbent president. Oh, the irony
• Elbridge Gerry*(1813-1814): Madison was not a healthy man as president. And in 1813 he had a serious of illness that would've left the Gerrymander potentially president, or acting president. And he has only a year or so left. Presidential succession could get very messy.
• Henry Clay/Theodore Frelinghuysen(1845-1849): Talked about before, but Clay replacing Polk is one of those big alternate presidents in my eyes. With him, America would not expand as far as it did under Polk, the Mexican-American War wouldn't happen. Texas may be annexed, or enough time might be delayed enough for it to be its own nation. And most importantly the discussion over free or slave states wouldn't be a thing. So if there's a Civil War, it'd be quite different.
• John C Fremont/Abraham Lincoln(1857-1865): I decided to make Lincoln instead of Dayton veep because it amused me seeing arguably the best president in the position. Fremont's radical views would've led to an earlier Civil War. I imagine he'd be re-elected mainly because there's a war on. Would he win it, I wonder? For funzies he'd be the first bastard president(in the literal sense), suck it Hamilton!
• Hannibal Hamlin(1865-1869): Hamlin should've been kept on the ticket, his views were more like Lincoln and Andrew Johnson was hot garbage. While I imagine a living Lincoln would work just as fine, maybe better, Hamlin having the kind of "stars and planets fall on me" that Truman had would've made him an interesting president to talk about
• Charles W Fairbanks/Curtis Guild Jr(1905-1909 or 1913): Had McKinley lived, he favored Fairbanks as his successor. The conservatives would continue, T.R would be greatly annoyed. I'd like to see WJB face him in 1908, maybe his views would be a nice change of pace and third time's the charm. If not, I think T.R would decide "1912 or never"
• Theodore Roosevelt(1901-1909, 1913-1921)/Charles W Fairbanks(1905-1909), Robert M.La Follette Sr(1913-1917), Hiram Johnson(1917-1921): C'mon, we all love Teddy! Even if he may not be the star we'd think he'd be in WWI, he would undoubtedly make an impact and would change the world.
• Leonard Wood*/Calvin Coolidge(1921-1927): Because he'd be way better than Harding and looks to have a better resume. Generally seems like he'd be a badass president
• John Nance Garner/Al Smith(1933-1941): I just wand a timeline where Garner does good, all right! Specifically where he wins election in his own right and doesn't get a Zangara to help him
• Henry Wallace(1945-1949): Wallace was close to staying veep. From what I've heard of him, Wallace's presidency sounds like a barrel of laughs. The Cold War will start pretty different, and I believe ABW will be a thing

Veeps Ascended!

Some ideas on how vice presidents might become presidents of their own accord or have better success than in OTL. Minus the predecessor dying

• George Clinton: Maybe if he's Washington's VP and not John Adams, he might have a chance?
• John C Calhoun: Doesn't really count as US President, though Calhoun becoming Louisiana president in a brief Civil War because of the Nullification Crisis going bad tickles me pink. As does the idea of Andrew Jackson being Andrew Jackson and shooting him to end the war
• Millard Fillmore: I may have already done this, but if Henry Clay wins 1844 or Harrison doesn't die/Daniel Webster is his veep and doesn't mess it up, perhaps Fillmore might be considered a darkhorse candidate or prove himself for an 1850s bid
• George M Dallas: Somewhere else I kind of talked about the idea of him overcoming his rival James Buchanan and winning the 1852 or 1856 election
• William R King: Perhaps another '56 Democrat if Buchanan's not available and, well, King isn't dead
• Henry Wilson: Potential Republican candidate after a Fremont presidency
• Adlai Stevenson I: Perhaps he might be kept as the Democrat choice, though it's more likely he get it in Cleveland's surgery gone wrong and they decide to keep him on the ticket. Either way, it'd be fun to see Adlai Stevenson II become president later on
• Theodore Roosevelt: See the McKinley lives timeline

Gate 2: Iran-Contra Boogaloo

Difference is that Reagan gets an impeachment at him over the Iran-Contra affair. Like Nixon he resigns(claiming bad health as a semi-justification) and this messes up H.W's ambitions as he becomes a second Ford

40(second term): Ronald Reagan***/George HW Bush(1985-1987)
41(first term): George HW Bush/Lamar Alexander(1987-1989)
-Election of 1988: George HW Bush/Lamar Alexander(Republican) vs Michael Dukakis/Joe Biden(Democrat)
42(first term): Michael Dukakis/Joe Biden(1989-1993)
-Election of 1992: Michael Dukakis/Joe Biden(Democrat) vs Bob Dole/Pat Robertson(Republican)
42(second term): Michael Dukakis/Joe Biden(1993-1997)
-Election of 1996: Joe Biden/Al Gore(Democrat) vs Lamar Alexander/John Kasick(Republican)
43(first term): Lamar Alexander/John Kasick(1997-2001)

Abridged list

• 1-39: Unchanged
• 40: Ronald Reagan***/George HW Bush(1981-1987)
• 41: George HW Bush/Lamar Alexander(1987-1989)
• 42: Michael Dukakis/Joe Biden(1989-1997)
• 43: Lamar Alexander/John Kasick(1997-200?)

 

[glenn67]

Gate 2: Iran-Contra Boogaloo

Difference is that Reagan gets an impeachment at him over the Iran-Contra affair. Like Nixon he resigns(claiming bad health as a semi-justification) and this messes up H.W's ambitions as he becomes a second Ford

40(second term): Ronald Reagan***/George HW Bush(1985-1987)
41(first term): George HW Bush/Lamar Alexander(1987-1989)
-Election of 1988: George HW Bush/Lamar Alexander(Republican) vs Jesse Jackson/Joe Biden(Democrat)
42(first term): Jesse Jackson/Joe Biden(1989-1993)
-Election of 1992: Jesse Jackson/Joe Biden(Democrat) vs Bob Dole/Pat Robertson(Republican)
42(second term): Jesse Jackson/Joe Biden(1993-1997)
-Election of 1996: Joe Biden/Al Gore(Democrat) vs Lamar Alexander/John Kasick(Republican)
43(first term): Lamar Alexander/John Kasick(1997-2001)

Abridged list

• 1-39: Unchanged
• 40: Ronald Reagan***/George HW Bush(1981-1987)
• 41: George HW Bush/Lamar Alexander(1987-1989)
• 42: Jesse Jackson/Joe Biden(1989-1997)
• 43: Lamar Alexander/John Kasick(1997-200?)

There is no way that Jesse Jackson with zero experience in elected office will win the Democratic nomination in 1988 under this scenario.

 

[redjirachi]

Alright, I changed it to Dukakis, you happy?

Anyone But Carter

38(first term): Gerald Ford(August 9 1974-January 20 1977)/Nelson Rockefeller(December 19 1974-January 20 1977)
-Election of 1976: Gerald Ford/Bob Dole(Republican) vs Mo Udall/Frank Church(Democrat)
39(first term): Mo Udall/Frank Church(1977-1981)
-Election of 1980: Mo Udall/Frank Church(Democrat) vs Ronald Reagan/George HW Bush(Republican)[1]
40(first term): Ronald Reagan/George HW Bush(1981-1985)
-Election of 1984: Ronald Reagan/George HW Bush(Republican) vs Gary Hart/Jesse Jackson(Democrat)[2]
41(first term): Gary Hart/Jesse Jackson(1985-1989)
-Election of 1988: Gary Hart/Jesse Jackson(Democrat) vs George HW Bush/Alexander Haig(Republican)[3]
41(second term): Gary Hart/Jesse Jackson(1989-1993)
-Election of 1992: Al Gore/Paul Tsongas(Democrat) vs Bob Dole/Pat Buchanan(Republican)[4]
42(first term): Al Gore/Paul Tsongas(1993-1997)
-Election of 1996: Al Gore/Paul Tsongas(Democrat) vs Lamar Alexander/Dick Cheney(Republican)
43(first term): Lamar Alexander/Dick Cheney(1997-2001)
-Election of 2000: Lamar Alexander/Dick Cheney(Republican) vs Jesse Jackson/Donald Trump(Democrat)[5]
44(first term): Jesse Jackson/Donald Trump(2001-2005)
-Election of 2004: Jesse Jackson/Howard Dean(Democrat) vs Jeb Bush/Scott Romney(Republican)
44(second term): Jesse Jackson/Howard Dean(2005-2009)

[1]John Hinckly Jr targets Udall instead of Reagan later(he feels Udall has a better shot than he did Carter OTL), however he's a worse shot and just misses him. While wins, Udall's presidency was better than Carter's.
[2]Because of things like Reagan not taking advantage of the Iranian hostage crisis, and a less impressive economy, he narrowly loses this. Hart gets the nomination, and like Bush himself Jackson accepts the second banana gig. Partly because he might help the Dems win against the not as much but still popular Reagan, partly to prepare for presidential ambitions of his own
[3]Hart is hurt from his affair, but manages to recover somewhat. While HW Bush uses that against him and the strength of those who look on Reagan favorably, in another very close match Hart manages to win re-election. A certain Arkansas politician keeps that in mind for his own future ambitions
[4]Jesse Jackson hoped to win election in his own right, however Gore managed to squeak out the nomination. Because his son doesn't get in that car accident, it doesn't distract him. However he doesn't have as much charisma as Jackson and will ultimately lose re-election
[5]This was part of Trump's exploratory campaign into politics. Something he would sorely regret as he hated being vice president

Abridged list

• 1-38: Unchanged
• 39: Mo Udall/Frank Church(1977-1981)
• 40: Ronald Reagan/George HW Bush(1981-1985)
• 41: Gary Hart/Jesse Jackson(1985-1993)
• 42: Al Gore/Paul Tsongas(1993-1997)
• 43: Lamar Alexander/Dick Cheney(1997-2001)
• 44: Jesse Jackson(2001-2009)/Donald Trump(2001-2005), Howard Dean(2005-2009)

 

[BlackentheBorg]

Oh, it can get much worse, trust me.

Presidents of the United States
20/1/1961- 22/11/1963, 12:30pm: John F. Kennedy/Lyndon B. Johnson
defeated Richard Nixon/Henry Cabot Lodge Jr., Harry Byrd/Strom Thurmond (unpledged electors)
12:30pm-2:38pm: [vacant]
2:38pm-2:59pm: Lyndon B. Johnson/[vacant]
2:59pm-4:01pm: [vacant]
4:01pm-11:22pm: Robert McNamara/[vacant]
11:22pm-3:17am: [vacant]
23/11/1963-14/02/1964: Robert F. Kennedy/[vacant]
14/02/1964-15/02/1965: Hale Boggs/[vacant]
1965-1969: Hale Boggs/John Rarick
defeated Henry Cabot Lodge Jr./Gerald Ford, Terry Stanford/George McGovern (Independent Democratic), Robert Stafford/Charles Goodell (Independent Republican)

Condensed writeup: Air Force 1 goes down en-route back to D.C. from Dallas. Speaker of the House John W. McCormack, upon learning that not only has the President been slain, so has the everyone else on that plane, suffers a fatal heart attack. Meanwhile, another plane crashes over the pacific. Secretary of State Dean Rusk, Treasury Secretary C. Douglas Dillon, Agriculture Secretary Orville Freeman, Interior Secretary Stewart Udall, Council of Economic Advisers Chairman Walter Heller and Treasury Undersecretary Henry Fowler are all gone in an instant. McNamara is taken out by an antsy secret service agent who mistakes his approaching shadow for an assassin. Bobby Kennedy, the fmr. AG, serves for a bit before he's taken out by an assassin of his own, screaming about some sort of conspiracy. Boggs, the new Speaker of the House, takes over and manages to take the nomination, even tho his primary challenger, Stanford, insists that he was a hair's breadth away from being chosen for the late Kennedy ticket, which is why he runs as an independent.

 

[Mumby]

Interesting. But I guess I was asking if the secret ever got out?

Yeah, thats part of what brings about the party political crisis of the 90s.

 

[Gigachad3k]

Bush 92

Ronald Reagan (1981-1989) (Republican)
George H. W. Bush (1989-1997) (Republican)
Al Gore (1997-2005) (Democratic)
John Kerry (2005-2009) (Democratic)
Mitt Romney (2009-2017) (Republican)
Jeb Bush (2017-Now) (Republican)

 

[creighton]

FaceApp is a game changer for our ability to age-progress in TLs.

The no Watergate less divisive politics TL

1977 - 1981 Ronald Reagan (R - CA)
Historians have considered the 1976 election to be a poisoned chalice, as the Reagan administration struggled to deal with continued stagflation. Reagan's popularity peaked before the American Embassy Massacre during a failed rescued attempt of the American Embassy in Tehran.

1981 - 1989 Walter Mondale (D - MN)
After surviving an assassination attempt early in his Presidency, Mondale utilized his popularity to pass a government health insurance program, AmeriCare, which provides a public option for Americans to buy health insurance at rates structure off Medicaid reimbursement levels.

Although Democrats would lose the House in 1982, Mondale would be reelected on the back of a soaring economy and renewed faith in the Federal Government's ability to create social change.

1989 - 1993 John Heinz (R - PA)
In a similar paradigm shift of Eisenhower to Kennedy, the Heinz administration utilized the new 24/7 news cycle and Heinz's youth to fully take advantage of the cable news era. Heinz created a sharp contrast with Mondale, who was affectionately compared to the nation's grandpa by supporters, but often ridiculed as boring and stiff on television by detractors. Heinz's administration was known for its tax cutting measures and attempts to stall the implementation of AmeriCare. The Heinz administration also became defined by rising tensions with the Soviet Union during the Iraq/Kuwait crisis of 1990. The administration suffered a shocking defeat during a sagging economy in 1992.

1993 - 2001 J Robert Kerrey (D - NE)
The Kerrey administration has been lauded for its understated response to the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1995. The administration enjoyed consistently high approval numbers from the 1990s economic boom and record surpluses.

2001 - 2009 Tommy Thompson (R - WI)
Elected in part from blow back by a number of liberal supreme court decisions, Thompson's centrist governing style created significant electoral challenges for Democrats, as his third way politics and New Republican branding stole the middle ground from Democrats. Key initiatives included the addition of government backed IRA plans to supplement social security and increased privatization of the AmeriCare program, and a number of government incentives to make private insurance more competitive.

2009 - 2017 Barack Obama (D - IL)
Although the Obama administration's recency makes historical judgement challenging, major initiatives included the American Reinvestment and Recovery Act following the 2007 web 2.0 recession, and immigration reform.