Isabella died instead of Louise, and thus there are no royal daughters available for Charles anyway significantly older than Louise.
List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage
- Thread starter Jonathan
- Start date
She has just two plus a stillborn one, who would not be much older than Louise or Mary, and when Charles decided to not wait anymore Beatrice was long married… Maria had a lot of sons but not daughters….
VVD0D95
Banned
Louis, Count of Provence has children.
Louis, Count of Provence (b.1755) m Marie Josephine of Savoy (b.1753) in 1771
issue
Maria Josepha of Provence (b,1772)
Henri of Provence (b,1774)
Louis of Provence (b.1781)
@isabella @Kellan Sullivan
Louis, Count of Provence (b.1755) m Marie Josephine of Savoy (b.1753) in 1771
issue
Maria Josepha of Provence (b,1772)
Henri of Provence (b,1774)
Louis of Provence (b.1781)
@isabella @Kellan Sullivan
not sure about Henri as a name, wasn't really "in use", but otherwise, I wonder if the 1772 kid spurs Louis XVI-Antoinette to consummate sooner
VVD0D95
Banned
Hmm would it be another louos then?
and I could see it, would be amusing if tbis sees A son of the same or similar age to Louis Provence
could go with Francois Xavier (after his uncle, the Prince de Saxe), or Charles Amédée (after his uncle and grandfather - after all, both of Charles d'Artois' kids were named after Savoyard relatives: Angoulème's second name was not from Marie Antoinette but from his grandma, Maria Antonia of Spain; and Berri's "Ferdinand Victor" were grandma (Maria Antonia Ferdinande) and grandpa (Victor Amadeus). Or just Joseph, after the late dauphine, the king of Portugal and the holy roman emperor
WI: Edward VI survives to adulthood.
Henry VIII Tudor, King of England, France, and Ireland (b. 1491, d. 1547) m. Catherine of Aragon (b. 1485, d. 1536) in 1509, had issue (a); Anne Boleyn (b. 1501, d. 1536) in 1533, had issue (b); Jane Seymour (b. 1508, d. 1537) in 1536, had issue (c); Anne of Cleves (b. 1515, d. 1557) in 1540, ann. 1540, had no issue (d); Catherine Howard (b. 1523, d. 1542) in 1540, had no issue (e); Catherine Parr (b. 1512, d. 1548) in 1543, had no issue (f); also had illegitimate issue by Elizabeth Blount (b. c. 1498-1502, d. c. 1540) (g)
Henry VIII Tudor, King of England, France, and Ireland (b. 1491, d. 1547) m. Catherine of Aragon (b. 1485, d. 1536) in 1509, had issue (a); Anne Boleyn (b. 1501, d. 1536) in 1533, had issue (b); Jane Seymour (b. 1508, d. 1537) in 1536, had issue (c); Anne of Cleves (b. 1515, d. 1557) in 1540, ann. 1540, had no issue (d); Catherine Howard (b. 1523, d. 1542) in 1540, had no issue (e); Catherine Parr (b. 1512, d. 1548) in 1543, had no issue (f); also had illegitimate issue by Elizabeth Blount (b. c. 1498-1502, d. c. 1540) (g)
1a) Stillborn daughter (b. and d. 1510)
2a) Henry, Duke of Cornwall (b. and d. 1511)
3a) Stillborn son (b. and d. 1513)
4a) Stillborn son (b. and d. 1514)
5a) Mary (b. 1516, d. 1557) [1]
6a) Stillborn daughter (b. and d. 1518)
7g) Henry FitzRoy, Duke of Richmond and Somerset (b. 1519, d. 1536) m. Mary Howard (b. 1519, d. 1557) in 1533, had no issue
8b) Elizabeth (b. 1533, d. 1603) m. Johan III, King of Sweden (b. 1537, d. 1592) [2] in 1562, had issue
1) Gustav II, King of Sweden (b. 1563, d. ?) m. Maria of the Palatinate (b. 1561, d. 1589) in 1581, had issue (a); Christina of Holstein-Gottorp (b. 1573, d. ?) in 1592, had issue (b)
2) Margareta (b. 1564, d. ?) m. Frederick IV Philip, Elector Palatine (b. 1567, d. ?) in 1581, had issue
3) Anna (b. 1566, d. ?) m. Frederick II, Duke of Holstein-Gottorp (b. 1568, d. ?) in 1587, had issue
4) Johan, Duke of Småland (b. 1569, d. 1578)
5) Elisabet (b. 1572, d. 1579)
9c) Edward VI, King of England, France, and Ireland (b. 1537, d. 1589) m. Elisabeth of Valois (b. 1545, d. 1607) in 1559, had issue
1) Jane, Queen of England, France, and Ireland (b. 1562, d. 1622) m. Edward Dudley, 2nd Duke of Suffolk (b. 1556, d. ?) [3] in 1583, had issue
2) Elizabeth (b. 1564, d. 1617) m. James VI, King of Scotland, Archduke of Austria, Infante of Spain (b. 1562, d. ?) [4] in 1580, had issue
3) Henry, Prince of Wales (b. 1566, d. 1581)
4) Edward Charles, Duke of York (b. 1567, d. 1573) [5]
5) Katherine (b. 1572, d. 1637; twin of Margaret)
6) Margaret (b. 1572, d. 1599; twin of Katherine) m. John III, King of Navarre (b. 1576, d. ?) [6] in 1592, had issue
[1] Once Edward comes of age, Mary avoids his court almost entirely. She dies of cancer as IOTL, though a little sooner.
[2] Elizabeth is initially betrothed to Eric XIV in 1561. He visits England that year with the intention of wedding her but news reaches him of his father's death and he is forced to leave before that can happen. Unfortunately, the boat conveying Eric back to Sweden is hit by storms and sunk, taking him with it. Johan thus ascends as King of Sweden in 1561 and makes preparations to replace his brother as Elizabeth's intended husband.
[3] The son of Guildford Dudley, 1st Duke of Suffolk and Lady Jane Grey.
[4] The son of Mary, Queen of Scots and Philip II of Spain.
[5] Named after his maternal uncle, King Charles IX of France.
[6] The son of Henri, Duke of Anjou (OTL Henri III of France) and Catherine II, Queen of Navarre (her older brother dies young here).
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Henry the Young King/Henry III m. Ida of Boulogne(a)
1a. Geoffrey I of England b. 1185 m. Eleanor, Duchess of Brittany
2a. Matilda of England b. 1190 m. Frederick II of HRE
Richard, Duke of Aquitaine m. Berengaria of Navarre(a)
Eleanor II of Aquitaine b. 1195 m. Peter II of Aragon[2]
John of England m. Eleanor of Savoy(a) Isabella of Angouleme(b)
1a. Blanche of Cornwall b. 1185 m. Louis VIII
2b. Henry of Angouleme b. 1207
She becomes his second wife.
1a. Geoffrey I of England b. 1185 m. Eleanor, Duchess of Brittany
2a. Matilda of England b. 1190 m. Frederick II of HRE
Richard, Duke of Aquitaine m. Berengaria of Navarre(a)
Eleanor II of Aquitaine b. 1195 m. Peter II of Aragon[2]
John of England m. Eleanor of Savoy(a) Isabella of Angouleme(b)
1a. Blanche of Cornwall b. 1185 m. Louis VIII
2b. Henry of Angouleme b. 1207
She becomes his second wife.
Henry III of England r. 1189-1216 m. Isabella of Jerusalem(a)
1a. Geoffroy I of England b. 1186 m. Eleanor, Duchess of Brittany
2a. Henry, King of Jerusalem b. 1188
3a. Beatrice b. 1191 m. Frederick II of HRE
4a. Matilda b. 1193
5a. Eleanor b. 1195
Eleanor II, Duchess of Aquitaine b. 1188 m. Peter II of Aragon
1a. James II of Aragon b. 1206
1a. Geoffroy I of England b. 1186 m. Eleanor, Duchess of Brittany
2a. Henry, King of Jerusalem b. 1188
3a. Beatrice b. 1191 m. Frederick II of HRE
4a. Matilda b. 1193
5a. Eleanor b. 1195
Eleanor II, Duchess of Aquitaine b. 1188 m. Peter II of Aragon
1a. James II of Aragon b. 1206
Aragon and Aquitaine ally against France.
The time Ida is available is on 1186, I doubt if the young King can wait.
Another WIP tree (for the surprise of nobody) quite out of my comfort zone this time…
The English Queens
Frederick I, King of England (b. 1707) married Diana Spencer (b. 1710) in 1730
The English Queens
Frederick I, King of England (b. 1707) married Diana Spencer (b. 1710) in 1730
- Sarah (b. 1731)
- Diana (b. 1732)
- George, Prince of Wales (1734-1748)
- Elizabeth (b. 1736)
- miscarriage (1738)
- Frederick II, King of England (b. 1740) married Sarah Lennox (b. 1745) in 1762
- George III, King of England (b. 1763)
- Frederick, Duke of York and Albany (b. 1765)
- Charlotte (b. 1767)
- Elizabeth (b. 1769)
- Charles, Duke of Kent and Strathearn (b. 1772)
- Sarah (b. 1773)
- Diana (b. 1775)
- Henry, Duke of Clarence and St. Andrews (1777-1790)
- William, Duke of Cambridge (b. 1779)
- William, Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh (b. 1742)
- Henry, Duke of Kent and Strathearn (1744-1758)
- Louisa (b. 1745)
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I'm guessing by that last title, Billy the Butcher never married? Because York is available for Fred's second son (and Fred's closeness to his late uncle, the last Duke of York would probably see him push for that title, no?)
No, that was a mistake on my side (and I edited it) as William here would become King of Hannover after his father and so would marry a German princess. York was given to Frederick‘s second son who would become his father’s successor after the death of his elder brother
@VVD0D95 @Emperor Constantine @Valena @isabella @The_Most_Happy @HortenseMancini @unprincipled peter @Jan Olbracht @Archduke @Vitruvius
A look at the other (French) matches affected by this POD:
Philippe II, Duc d'Orléans (1674-1723) m: 1692 Françoise Marie, Mademoiselle de Blois (b. 1677)
Marie Élisabeth (1693)
Marie Louise Élisabeth (b. 1695) m: 1711 Louis IV, Prince de Condé (b. 1692)[1]
Louis Philippe, Duc de Bourbon (b. 1714)
Stillborn Daughter (1717)
Louise Charlotte (1719-1722)
Marie Adélaïde (b. 1721)
François Louis (1723-1726)
Stillborn Son (1725)
Louise Adélaïde, Abbess of Chelles (b. 1698)
Charlotte Aglaë (b.1700) m: 1717 James Fitz James, 2e Duke of Berwick (b. 1696)[2]
Anne (b. 1719)
Charlotte (b. 1720)
James (1722-1730)
Louisa (b.1726)
Edward (b. 1727)
Charles (b. 1730)
Louis, Duc d'Orléans (b. 1703) m: 1718 Maria Clementina Sobieska (b. 1702) [3]
Louis Jean Alexandre, Duc de Chartres (b. 1719)[5]
Louise Marie Casimire (b. 1720)
Marie Thérèse Charlotte (b. 1724)
Philippe (1724-1730)
Louis André Maurice [6] (b. 1727)
Louise Élisabeth (b. 1709) m: 1723 Louis Auguste, Prince de Dombes (b. 1700) [4]
Louis Auguste (1728-1731)
Louis Clément (1729-1731)
Anne Françoise Adélaïde (b. 1731)
Philippine Élisabeth (b. 1714)
Louise Diane (b. 1716)
[1] this was originally the match slated for her while her same name Condé cousin was the frontrunner for the duc de Berri. Unfortunately, the Dowager Princess de Condé repeated a smutty rhyme about the Duchesse de Bourgogne and Adélaïde championed the oldest Orléans girl instead
[2] Chalk this up to Louisa Maria and Queen Adélaïde putting their heads together
[3] Louis was supposed to be the Franco-Russian candidate for the Polish throne OTL, plus he was suggested for Marie Leszczynska when her name was first tossed out. She's marginally better than a match with the tsar's bastard, even though her mother-in-law would likely be lying on the fainting couch, cringing and calling a king's legitimate granddaughter "trash"
[4] again, this match was proposed OTL, but refused by the prince de Condé, then premier ministre
[5] Clementina got pregnant just as quickly OTL
[6] For arguments sake he was born on the feast of St. Maurice (22 September) and baptized on the feast of St. Andrew (30 November). Both Clementina and her husband were pious people, so this choice doesn't sound particularly odd
@VVD0D95 @Emperor Constantine @Valena @isabella @The_Most_Happy @HortenseMancini @unprincipled peter @Jan Olbracht @Archduke @Vitruvius
Stanisław I, King of Poland, Grand Duke of Lithuania (b.1677) m: 1698 Katarzyna Opalińska (b. 1680)
[2] they were in love OTL but duty kept them apart. I'm a sucker for a happy ending. And any fate for Marie is likelier happier than what she got OTL
Jakub Ludwik Henryk, Crown Prince of Poland (b. 1667) m: 1691 Hedwig Elisabeth Amalie of Neuburg (b. 1673)
And for outside France:
Stanisław I, King of Poland, Grand Duke of Lithuania (b.1677) m: 1698 Katarzyna Opalińska (b. 1680)
Anna Maria (1699-1730) m: 1715 Ferdinand, Duke of Courland (b. 1655)[1]
Jakob, Erbprinz of Courland (b. 1722)
Katharina Amalie (b. 1726) m: 1740 Karl Peter Ulrich, Duke of Holstein (b. 1727)
Ferdinand Stanislaus (b. 1730)
Marie Karolina Zofia (b. 1703) m: 1720 Ludwig Georg, Margrave of Baden-Baden (b. 1702)[2]
Katharina Sibylle (1721-1722)
Karl Damian Ludwig, Erbprinz of Baden-Baden (b. 1723)
Elisabeth Sophie (b. 1726)
Karl Christoph (1728)
Stanislaus August (b. 1731)
[1] marriage arranged by Carl XII after he turns a match with Anna down. Ferdinand himself is rather surprised by it.[2] they were in love OTL but duty kept them apart. I'm a sucker for a happy ending. And any fate for Marie is likelier happier than what she got OTL
Jakub Ludwik Henryk, Crown Prince of Poland (b. 1667) m: 1691 Hedwig Elisabeth Amalie of Neuburg (b. 1673)
Maria Leopoldyna (1693-1695)
Maria Casimire (1695-1723)
Maria Karolyna (b. 1697) m: 1716 Francesco III, Duke of Modena (b. 1698)[1]
Rinaldo, Hereditary Prince of Modena (b. 1719)
Maria Carolina Felicità (1721-1726)
Luisa Maria Edwige (b. 1722)
Maria Elisabetta Teresa (b. 1724)
Francesco Giacomo (1726-1730)
Antonio Casimiro (b. 1727)
Stillborn Son (1730)
Maria Anna Matilda (b.1732)
Jan (1698-1699)
Maria Klementyna (b. 1702) m: 1718 Louis, Duc d'Orléans (b. 1703)
See tree above
Maria Magdalena (1704)
[1] marriage arranged by Karl VI who promised to find his cousins good husband's OTL. A marriage to the "Polish princess" was being discussed when the Régent's envoys arrived to offer Charlotte Aglaë's hand, but it doesn't specify whether this princess was one of Jakub Sobieski' s girls or Marie Leszczynska. Since Ms. Sobieska was offered for the duke of Guastalla, I'm going with her in Modena
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