List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

[CaptainShadow]

Warwick’s wardship was a too profitable one for going to someone who is NOT Queen Elizabeth OR her son. Getting Warwick’s wardship has nothing to do with trust and everything with money

Disagree, Gloucester makes perfect sense as Clarence's warder. Double uncle, highly trusted.

After all why not? Edward clearly wanted Richard, well, rich and York sr's wardship (who made more than Warwick) was sold to royal favorite Westmorland, who was just about as powerful as Gloucester now is (holding the same estates and stuff). Liz and Grey aren't unlikely but Richard isn't out of the running either.

 

[isabella]

Disagree, Gloucester makes perfect sense as Clarence's warder. Double uncle, highly trusted.

After all why not? Edward clearly wanted Richard, well, rich and York sr's wardship (who made more than Warwick) was sold to royal favorite Westmorland, who was just about as powerful as Gloucester now is (holding the same estates and stuff). Liz and Grey aren't unlikely but Richard isn't out of the running either.

Richard OVER Queen Elizabeth or Dorset (her eldest son) is almost impossible. Specially when Edward was doing EVERYTHING for securing his son’s inheritance strengthening the position of his in-laws

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Infante Afonso (son of John II of Portugal) has posthumous son with Isabella of Castile (Afonso, b. 1491)

Afonso VI/XII (1491-1536) King of Portugal 1495, King of Castile 1504, King of Aragon 1516, m. Mary of England (1496-1533)

1) Isabella (1515-1520)

2) Eleanor (1517-1559) m. Francis II (1518-1549) King of France

3) John III (1519-1571) King of Spain 1536, m. Margaret of France (1523-1574)

4) Ferdinand (1521-1537) Duke of Cádiz

5) Afonso (1523-1574) Duke of Guarda, m. Eleanor of Toledo (1522-1562)

6) Henry (1526-1587) Archbishop of Toledo

7) Isabella (1528-1532)

8) Maria (1530-1583) m. Henry IX (1528-1599) King of England*

9) Edward (1530)

* Son of Henry, Prince of Wales (ATL son of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon) and Catherine of Austria

 

[RedKing]

Infante Afonso (son of John II of Portugal) has posthumous son with Isabella of Castile (Afonso, b. 1491)

Afonso VI/XII (1491-1536) King of Portugal 1495, King of Castile 1504, King of Aragon 1516, m. Mary of England (1496-1533)

1) Isabella (1515-1520)

2) Eleanor (1517-1559) m. Francis II (1518-1549) King of France

3) John III (1519-1571) King of Spain 1536, m. Margaret of France (1523-1574)

4) Ferdinand (1521-1537) Duke of Cádiz

5) Afonso (1523-1574) Duke of Guarda, m. Eleanor of Toledo (1522-1562)

6) Henry (1526-1587) Archbishop of Toledo

7) Isabella (1528-1532)

8) Maria (1530-1583) m. Henry IX (1528-1599) King of England*

9) Edward (1530)

* Son of Henry, Prince of Wales (ATL son of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon) and Catherine of Austria

One nitpick, I don’t think Mary will still die in 1533, I read that she died partially because of her horror at Henry VIII breaking with Rome.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

One nitpick, I don’t think Mary will still die in 1533, I read that she died partially because of her horror at Henry VIII breaking with Rome.

Interesting. I used OTL date just to avoid confusion.

 

[RedKing]

Interesting. I used OTL date just to avoid confusion.

Oh okay, that works too then!

 

[kasumigenx]

Claude, Duchess of Brittany m. Henry VIII(a)

1a. Mary b. 1515 m. James VI(a)

1a?a. James VI b. 1540 m. Elizabeth of England b. 1545

2a. Elizabeth b. 1516 d. 1524

3a. Henry b. 1518 – 1536

4a. Edward VI b. 1519 m. Christina of Denmark

4a1a. Henry IX b. 1544 - 1560

4a2a. Elizabeth I of England b. 1545 m. James VI

4a3a. Anna b. 1547 m. Charles II of Spain

4a4a. Edward VI b. 1549 d. 1575

4a5a. Edmund I of England b. 1551 d. 1589

4a6a. Margaret b. 1553 m. Sebastian I of Portugal

4a7a. Arthur b. 1555 d. 1588.

5a. Edmund b. 1522

6a. Margaret b. 1523 m. Phillip II

note: Anne of Brittany survives after her husband dies.

 

[Deleted member 147978]

Claude, Duchess of Brittany m. Henry VIII(a)

1a. Mary b. 1515 m. James VI(a)

1a?a. James VI b. 1540 m. Elizabeth of England b. 1545

2a. Elizabeth b. 1516 d. 1524

3a. Henry b. 1518 – 1536

4a. Edward VI b. 1519 m. Christina of Denmark

4a1a. Henry IX b. 1544 - 1560

4a2a. Elizabeth b. 1545 m. James VI

4a3a. Anna b. 1547 m. Charles II of Spain

4a4a. Edward VI b. 1549 d. 1575

4a5a. Edmund I of England b. 1551 d. 1589

4a6a. Margaret b. 1553 m. Sebastian I of Portugal

4a7a. Arthur b. 1555 d. 1588.

5a. Edmund b. 1522

6a. Margaret b. 1523 m. Phillip II

Looking at your post at face value, I'm positively sure Louis XII wouldn't have the absolute gall to just give away the duchy to Henry VIII wouldn't he right?

 

[kasumigenx]

Looking at your post at face value, I'm positively sure Louis XII wouldn't have the absolute gall to just give away the duchy to Henry VIII wouldn't he right?

This is because he predeceases his wife here.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Habsburg PLC (Archduke Ernst won 1573 election)

Ernest I (1553-1599) King of Poland 1573, m. Isabella Vasa (1564-1522)*

1) Sigismund III (1582-1603) King of Poland 1599, m. Anna of Tyrol (1585-1618)

1) Isabella Anna (1602-1606)​

​

2) Sigismund II (1604-1656) Holy Roman Emperor 1621, m. a) Isabella of Spain (1606-1629) See below, b) Cecilia Renata of Austria-Styria (1611-1645) c) Eleanor Gonzaga (1630-1686)​

2) Vladislaus (1584-1588)

3) John II (1585-1524) King of Poland 1603, m. Constance of Austria (1588-1631)

4) Catherine (1587-1642) m. Philip III (1578-1621) King of Spain

1) Anna (1604-1652) m. Louis XIII (1601-1643) King of France​

​

2) Isabella (1606-1629) m. Sigismund II (1604-1656) Holy Roman Emperor​

​

3) Philip (1608-1611)​

​

4) Charles II (1609-1644) King of Spain 1621, m. Henrietta Maria of France (1609-1669)​

​

5) Catherine (1611)​

​

6) Philip (1614)​

​

7) Ferdinand (1616-1633)​

5) Maximilian I (1588-1650) King of Poland 1624, m. Maria Anna of Austria-Styria (1610-1665)

1) Isabella Maria (1627-1691) m. Philip William (1615-1690) Elector Palatine​

​

2) Vladislaus (1629-1632)​

​

3) Ernest II (1630-1688) King of Poland 1650, m. Anna Cecilia of Austria (1637-1692)**​

​

4) Anna Catherine (1633)​

​

5) Sigismund (1635-1658)​

​

7) Ferdinand (1637-1687) Cardinal​

​

8) Alexander (1639)​

6) Ernest (1591)

* Daughter of John III of Sweden and Catherine Jagiellon, IOTL died young

** Daughter of HRE Sigismund II and Cecilia Renata

 

[Deleted member 147978]

This is because he predeceases his wife here.

Perhaps you could have typed the POD of your post, but you had clarified me about that. Your choice then.

 

[kasumigenx]

Perhaps you could have typed the POD of your post, but you had clarified me about that. Your choice then.

Ninjad.

 

[isabella]

Infante Afonso (son of John II of Portugal) has posthumous son with Isabella of Castile (Afonso, b. 1491)

Afonso VI/XII (1491-1536) King of Portugal 1495, King of Castile 1504, King of Aragon 1516, m. Mary of England (1496-1533)

1) Isabella (1515-1520)

2) Eleanor (1517-1559) m. Francis II (1518-1549) King of France

3) John III (1519-1571) King of Spain 1536, m. Margaret of France (1523-1574)

4) Ferdinand (1521-1537) Duke of Cádiz

5) Afonso (1523-1574) Duke of Guarda, m. Eleanor of Toledo (1522-1562)

6) Henry (1526-1587) Archbishop of Toledo

7) Isabella (1528-1532)

8) Maria (1530-1583) m. Henry IX (1528-1599) King of England*

9) Edward (1530)

* Son of Henry, Prince of Wales (ATL son of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon) and Catherine of Austria

Alfonso here would marry one of the infantas of Navarre not the English princess...

 

[RedKing]

POD, Richard of Gloucester dies in 1483, butterflying away his coup:

King Edward IV of England (1442-1483) M. Elizabeth Woodville (1437-1492), had issue

1. Elizabeth of York (1466-1521) M. Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian (1459-1518), had issue

1 A). Archduchess Eleanor of Austria (1487-1539) M. Sigismund I of Poland (1467-1548)​

1 B). Archduchess Elisabeth of Austria (1489-1542) M. Vladislaus II of Hungary (1456-1516)​

1 C). Frederick, Archduke of Inner Austria and Duke of Milan [1] (1492-1545) M. Bona Sforza (1494-1557)​

1 D). Cardinal Maximilian, Archbishop of Vienna (1495-1569), never married​

2. Cecily of York (1469-1521) M. Charles VIII of France (1470-1499), had issue

2 A). Princess Charlotte of France (1499-1539) M. Richard, Duke of Brittany (1500-1562)​

​

3. King Edward V of England (1470-1524) M. Anne, Duchess of Brittany (1478-1527), had issue

3 A). King Edward VI of England (1493-1561) M. Infanta Isabella of Portugal (1498-1563) [2]​

3 B). Princess Elizabeth of England (1496-1549) M. Holy Roman Emperor Charles V (1498-1558) [3]​

3 C). Princess Anne of England (1498-1539) M. Ferdinand VI of Castile and Aragon (1498-1553)​

3 D). Richard, Duke of Brittany (1500-1562) M. Charlotte of France (1499-1539)​

​

4. Richard, Duke of York (1473-1519) M. Elizabeth Herbert (1476-1529), had issue

4 A). Edward, Duke of York (1497-1543) M. Elizabeth Grey, Viscountess Lisle (1500-1551) [4]​

4 B). Richard, Earl of Pembroke (1500-1554) M. Anne Braye, Baroness Braye (1501-1558) [5]​

4 C). Lady Elizabeth of York (1502-1553) M. Henry Stafford, Duke of Buckingham (1501-1563)​

4 D). Lady Mary of York (1505-1553), became a Nun​

​

5. Anne of York (1475-1526) M. James IV of Scotland (1473-1519), had issue

5 A). King James V of Scotland (1496-1552) M. Princess Marie of France (1499-1553) [6]​

5 B). Prince Alexander, Duke of Lothian (1498-1543) M. Madeleine de la Tours (1497-1539)​

5 C). Princess Margaret of Scotland (1501-1554) M. King Charles IX of France (1502-1559) [7]​

​

6. Catherine of York (1478-1499) M. King John III of Castile and Aragon (1478-1523), had issue

6 A). King Ferdinand VI of Castile and Aragon (1498-1552) M. Anne of England (1498-1539)​

7. Bridget of York (1480-1509), became a Nun

---

So just a new experiment with a slightly different format.

[1] Created as such by his nephew, Charles.
[2] Alt daughter of Isabella of Portugal and Manuel I
[3] Alt Eleanor of Austria, I know Isabella of Portugal is a more likely bride, but shh.
[4] An alt version of her OTL counterpart, I pushed her date of birth back 5 years for age reasons.
[5] Alt heiress of her Father
[6] Alt daughter of Louis XII and Maria of Aragon. The marriage occurs to make peace between France and Spain.
[7] Brother of Marie.

 

[FalconHonour]

Lovely tree, but I was very sad to notice that Anne Mowbray didn't get a mention. I know she died as a child, but she did marry Richard of Shrewsbury - though Elizabeth Herbert makes for a good second wife for him!

 

[isabella]

POD, Richard of Gloucester dies in 1483, butterflying away his coup:

King Edward IV of England (1442-1483) M. Elizabeth Woodville (1437-1492), had issue

1. Elizabeth of York (1466-1521) M. Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian (1459-1518), had issue

1 A). Archduchess Eleanor of Austria (1487-1539) M. Sigismund I of Poland (1467-1548)​

1 B). Archduchess Elisabeth of Austria (1489-1542) M. Vladislaus II of Hungary (1456-1516)​

1 C). Frederick, Archduke of Inner Austria and Duke of Milan [1] (1492-1545) M. Bona Sforza (1494-1557)​

1 D). Cardinal Maximilian, Archbishop of Vienna (1495-1569), never married​

2. Cecily of York (1469-1521) M. Charles VIII of France (1470-1499), had issue

2 A). Princess Charlotte of France (1499-1539) M. Richard, Duke of Brittany (1500-1562)​

​

3. King Edward V of England (1470-1524) M. Anne, Duchess of Brittany (1478-1527), had issue

3 A). King Edward VI of England (1493-1561) M. Infanta Isabella of Portugal (1498-1563) [2]​

3 B). Princess Elizabeth of England (1496-1549) M. Holy Roman Emperor Charles V (1498-1558) [3]​

3 C). Princess Anne of England (1498-1539) M. Ferdinand VI of Castile and Aragon (1498-1553)​

3 D). Richard, Duke of Brittany (1500-1562) M. Charlotte of France (1499-1539)​

​

4. Richard, Duke of York (1473-1519) M. Elizabeth Herbert (1476-1529), had issue

4 A). Edward, Duke of York (1497-1543) M. Elizabeth Grey, Viscountess Lisle (1500-1551) [4]​

4 B). Richard, Earl of Pembroke (1500-1554) M. Anne Braye, Baroness Braye (1501-1558) [5]​

4 C). Lady Elizabeth of York (1502-1553) M. Henry Stafford, Duke of Buckingham (1501-1563)​

4 D). Lady Mary of York (1505-1553), became a Nun​

​

5. Anne of York (1475-1526) M. James IV of Scotland (1473-1519), had issue

5 A). King James V of Scotland (1496-1552) M. Princess Marie of France (1499-1553) [6]​

5 B). Prince Alexander, Duke of Lothian (1498-1543) M. Madeleine de la Tours (1497-1539)​

5 C). Princess Margaret of Scotland (1501-1554) M. King Charles IX of France (1502-1559) [7]​

​

6. Catherine of York (1478-1499) M. King John III of Castile and Aragon (1478-1523), had issue

6 A). King Ferdinand VI of Castile and Aragon (1498-1552) M. Anne of England (1498-1539)​

7. Bridget of York (1480-1509), became a Nun

---

So just a new experiment with a slightly different format.

[1] Created as such by his nephew, Charles.
[2] Alt daughter of Isabella of Portugal and Manuel I
[3] Alt Eleanor of Austria, I know Isabella of Portugal is a more likely bride, but shh.
[4] An alt version of her OTL counterpart, I pushed her date of birth back 5 years for age reasons.
[5] Alt heiress of her Father
[6] Alt daughter of Louis XII and Maria of Aragon. The marriage occurs to make peace between France and Spain.
[7] Brother of Marie.

Lovely tree, but I was very sad to notice that Anne Mowbray didn't get a mention. I know she died as a child, but she did marry Richard of Shrewsbury - though Elizabeth Herbert makes for a good second wife for him!

Agreed about Anne Mowbray and I would add to switch husbands between Eleanor and Elisabeth of Austria as Vladislaus would be available in 1502 (as here Anne of Candale would NEVER be offered) while Sigismund would become a option only after he become King of Poland in December of 1506

 

[RedKing]

Lovely tree, but I was very sad to notice that Anne Mowbray didn't get a mention. I know she died as a child, but she did marry Richard of Shrewsbury - though Elizabeth Herbert makes for a good second wife for him!

Thank you! Sorry about Anne, I forgot completely about her, I’ll go add her in then!

Agreed about Anne Mowbray and I would add to switch husbands between Eleanor and Elisabeth of Austria as Vladislaus would be available in 1502 (as here Anne of Candale would NEVER be offered) while Sigismund would become a option only after he become King of Poland in December of 1506

Oh I see, I just figured Maximilian would want a double alliance with the Jagellions and so arranged the matches to be like that on the tree. I’ll go fix it later!

 

[CaptainShadow]

Why is Cecily marrying Charles and not Elizabeth? Philip is almost definitely marrying a York girl atl, it makes too much sense not to happen.

Duke of York

He's Duke of Norfolk as well, his second son probably gets it.

Prince Alexander, Duke of Lothian

Are Albany, March, Ross etc taken?

 

[RedKing]

Why is Cecily marrying Charles and not Elizabeth? Philip is almost definitely marrying a York girl atl, it makes too much sense not to happen.

I should’ve made it clear, I shuffled around a few matches. Cecily is marrying Charles due to age reasons, and Charles’s betrothal to Elizabeth was broken in 1483, so by the time Charles comes back looking for a bride, Elizabeth is taken, and so Cecily goes to France.

Philip didn’t get a York girl since all were taken, Anne was in Scotland and Catherine in Spain, both alliances are too valuable to break.

He's Duke of Norfolk as well, his second son probably gets it.

He was? I thought he was just the Duke of York?

Are Albany, March, Ross etc taken?

Albany is definitely taken, not sure about the other two. I just choose the Duke of Lothian as it was used in OTL IIRC.

 

[CaptainShadow]

Philip didn’t get a York girl since all were taken, Anne was in Scotland and Catherine in Spain, both alliances are too valuable to break.

Bridget.

And Burgundy is more important than Scotland.

He was? I thought he was just the Duke of York?

He was.

Albany is definitely taken, not sure about the other two. I just choose the Duke of Lothian as it was used in OTL IIRC.

March is taken Ross is free.

And no Dukes of Lothian around afaik.