Keynes' Cruisers Volume 2

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fester

Lascaris said:
The fleet that landed in Anzio is shall we say free TTL?
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Please note at the moment that the Allies in the Mediterranean are currently supporting ~25 divisions in contact with Germans. There are broader and deeper logistical flows and a bit less demand on amphibious shipping at this time compared to OTL but the gains are only so much. Also note that the US is beginning to make large multi-division assaults with huge jumps from major bases in the Pacific so US amphibious shipping demands in November 1943 TTL approximate US amphibious shipping demand in the Pacific OTL July 1944.

LSTs are still a very rare and highly valuable commodity.
 

formion

Banned
fester said:
~25 divisions
....
There are broader and deeper logistical flows and a bit less demand on amphibious shipping at this time compared to OTL but the gains are only so much.
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So, in TTL is it fair to say that the Allies have invested more or less the same as in the OTL Italian Campaign, but in 2 different fronts?

Operation Diadem order of battle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

In terms of logistics, it seems the situation is better: In OTL the Allies supported more or less the same manpower basically via Naples, the only trully major port in Allied hands. In TTL they have also Genoa, Livorno and Piraeus. Moreover, it seems that the majority of the italian railroad network was captured intact without the OTL damage and only the Lombardian Plain is being fought over. So, the Allies need less tonnage to ship equipment to rebuild italian infrastructure. Moreover, it seems thst the fight for Lombardy is coming to end: come summer the Po valley can export its food surplus to the rest of Italy, instead of feeding the Germans. In OTL 1944 , the Po valley fed not only the German field army but exported food to Germany as well.
 

fester

formion said:
So, in TTL is it fair to say that the Allies have invested more or less the same as in the OTL Italian Campaign, but in 2 different fronts?

Operation Diadem order of battle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

In terms of logistics, it seems the situation is better: In OTL the Allies supported more or less the same manpower basically via Naples, the only trully major port in Allied hands. In TTL they have also Genoa, Livorno and Piraeus. Moreover, it seems that the majority of the italian railroad network was captured intact without the OTL....
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Pretty much. 10 divisions in Greece, 15 Div Equivalent in northern Italy. 2 Division on Sardinia, 3 Divisions on Corsica. Most of a veteran army split between Algiers, Tunis and Alexandria
 

Draconis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saipan
1598317823195.png



Here is a link to the Wikipedia article on the Battle of Saipan which occurred from June to July 1944 in OTL. As well as happening 7 months earlier in TTL I wonder if it will be less costly for the Americans and concluded faster because the Japanese haven't had as much time to prepare and they are more constrained for supplies and equipment or will the battle take a similar course as OTL.

I think many readers will find it agreeable to read about the USS Arizona getting her licks in.
 

formion

Banned
A question that I think needs to be asked: what is the political situation in Italy and what is the status of the Italian Army? Will we see a bigger Italian Co-belligerent Army?

Lastly, where is the frontline in Italy now?
 
Story 2325
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    • fester

    Cambridge, Massachusetts November 15, 1943

    Elaine paused for a moment. The coffee cup was steaming. She inhaled. Soon she would be functional again. The coffee ration had gone up to one and a half pounds per month per person. Thankfully her roommate detested the taste and smell of coffee but was more than willing to buy her ration and trade it for a little bit of jelly and dried fruit that Elaine did not like as well as some assistance in sorting through the men who were knocking on her figurative door. Elaine had to make a decision; was this coffee good enough to drink black? She tipped the cup. She took a sip.

    A long satisfied sigh escaped her mouth. She did not need to make any trade-offs. She could save her sugar for another day and and another task. This was the best Brazilian coffee she had sipped in years.
     
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    • Story 2326
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    • fester

    Near Strasbourg, Alsace Lorraine November 15, 1943

    The last of the harvest was almost in. Anna Marie twisted her back and then compressed her knuckles against the palms of her hands. Finally, things began to pop. Her back was louder than her stomach for once.

    "Mamere, this is wonderful..." she sighed as the roasted root vegetables had been prepared at least three different ways. There was a little chunks of a rabbit caught in a field trap a few days ago. The meat had been stretched out over a few meals already. Her exhausted papa passed the bread and butter to her. At least they still had enough dairy products. She still enjoyed watching cold butter melt and be absorbed in the hot bread her mamere made. The food was good, and compared to the cities, she was still eating well but she had already lost five kilograms during the harvest alone. They had hidden enough food on the farm to keep the family healthy during the winter, but there would be no chance to gain any of her weight back.
     
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    • Curtain Jerker

    fester said:
    Cambridge, Massachusetts November 15, 1943
    Thankfully her roommate detested the taste and smell of coffee but was more than willing to buy her ration and trade if for a little bit of jelly and dried fruit that Elaine did not like as well as some assistance in sorting through the men who were knocking on her figurative door.
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    Safe to say this sort of ration barter system was widespread right? I'd never heard of it before but it makes perfect sense now that I think about it.
     
    Story 2327
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    • fester

    Clark Airfield, Luzon November 16, 1943

    The air raid all clear siren sounded. Patrick Donohue looked up and around. A trio of trucks were on fire a few hundred yards away. The Japanese strafers hat little success. One Zero had crashed two miles away. The sergeant and the platoon leader waited for his squad leaders to report in over the next few minutes. No casualties. He looked around and found a gun pit with quad-50s whose gun crew was cursing as they were humping heavy ammunition boxes from the reserve magazines to a ready position. He ordered two of his squads to assist while the rest of the platoon resumed working on policing the encampment for debris and sanitation hazards. If he had looked at the ammunition boxes, he would notice that the heavy half inch rounds were stamped as coming from the Remington Arms Lowell Plant. If he could dig into the records, it was ammunition that his mother had inspected months ago and shipped across the Pacific as additional cargo aboard LST-28 which had first touched saltwater in July after being launched in Pittsburgh in June.
     
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    • Butchpfd

    People often mention the Essex class carrier pez dispenser , but often forget the pez dispenser that ran down the Ohio river, and Lake Michigan to the Illinois river to the Mississippi Ri er and the LSTs, Submarines, and other small vessels that came down that river system. Not to mention the ammunition plants , and arsenals along those rivers.
     

    Spencersj345.346

    Butchpfd said:
    People often mention the Essex class carrier pez dispenser , but often forget the pez dispenser that ran down the Ohio river, and Lake Michigan to the Illinois river to the Mississippi Ri er and the LSTs, Submarines, and other small vessels that came down that river system. Not to mention the ammunition plants , and arsenals along those rivers.
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    And then we have the cruiser and destroyer pez dispensers as well
     

    Draconis

    "One Zero had crashed two miles away. "

    Where are those Zeros coming from? Maybe from Indochina, Formosa or other airfields in Japanese occupied Philippines. The CAPs can't catch them all. It will be necessary to go after those enemy airfields.
     

    fester

    mudhead said:
    According to this site, this was very nearly the scale of pre-war US consumption.

    Rationing was ended, IOTL, on July 28, 1943, though prices were raised.
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    the challenge is that averages, especially over big populations don't do well describing outliers.

    During the pandemic, I think the coffee consumption in my household of 2 adults/coffee drinkers is up to 4+ pounds a month and during writing sprints like I'm on now, I'll easily go through a pound a week for myself. My consumption pattern is readily balanced out by my sister who last drank coffee in 1997 and declared it disgusting.
     
    Driftless

    Driftless

    Donor
    Coffee strength also comes into play currently. I just can't drink weak-bodied coffee. My coffee grounds go to the mulch pile out back, and I may need a backhoe to keep the pile orderly (just kidding about the backhoe....). I'm sure others have similar experiences, and not just for coffee.

    On a more Keyne's Cruiser note, that was a nifty comparison and contrast of rationing of food by Elaine and Anne-Maries family. Different root causes and impacts. Inconvenience vs existence
     
    Story 2328
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    • fester

    Chongqing, China November 17, 1943

    The last truck stopped. Over three hundred infantrymen waited for their sergeants to yell at them to dismount. Within minutes, the two companies of Americans were assembled for their colonel and a slim, bitter general to inspect them. An hour later, chow was called and the men ambled to taste food that some liked, and all found foreign and exotic. Colonel Merrill and General Slim finally had a complete American formation to give their advice more weight in the councils of war that the Generalissimo hosted on a regular basis. The privates and corporals did not care as they found their tents and some made the discovery that even the lowliest American E-1 was a rich man and rich, exotic men who had access to an almost inexhaustible supply of cigarettes and food would soon meet many fascinating and attractive individuals.
     
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    • Bob in Pittsburgh

    fester said:
    Cambridge, Massachusetts November 15, 1943

    Elaine paused for a moment. The coffee cup was steaming. She inhaled. Soon she would be functional again. The coffee ration had gone up to one and a half pounds per month per person. Thankfully her roommate detested the taste and smell of coffee but was more than willing to buy her ration and trade it for a little bit of jelly and dried fruit that Elaine did not like as well as some assistance in sorting through the men who were knocking on her figurative door. Elaine had to make a decision; was this coffee good enough to drink black? She tipped the cup. She took a sip.

    A long satisfied sigh escaped her mouth. She did not need to make any trade-offs. She could save her sugar for another day and and another task. This was the best Brazilian coffee she had sipped in years.
    Click to expand...
    Would the American public accept rationing today? Based upon the reaction to mask requirements I have my doubts.
     
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