Keynes' Cruisers Volume 2
- Thread starter fester
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They aren't worried about him complaining. They are worried about him concluding a separate peace with the Third Reich,
The German high water mark was slightly further east and the pushback is slightly slower but the Soviets have found their balance. One thing to note is that Leningrad has been under only a partial siege instead of a complete siege and the Soviets have had more success in the far north.
Driftless
Donor
Oh yeah, to be sure, there's a definite question of where the fulcrum of endurance is positioned in this situation. Here, Fester has the Soviets appear to have turned the corner against the Germans, but a huge and productive chunk of Soviet territory remains in German hands. The Soviet forces seem to be slowly gaining momentum. If that set of conditions remains, then I'd guess Stalin keeps the Soviets in the fight. As you note, it's critical to the West to keep the Soviets in the fight, so LL needs to be ample and useful; but the West also needs to put their own warfighting requirements first. Both to win their fight in Western Europe and for political reasons, to limit the Soviet offensives from reaching too far into Eastern Europe. That would require some masterful juggling of production, logistics and diplomacy in the next several months.
IMHO the question is how do the western powers see the USSR. OTL the view that the Soviets needed to be kept as far east as possible did not win out. Other than keeping atomic secrets from the Soviets and some other technical matters/designs, LL was limited only by military considerations of production capacity and transportation limitations. Will the "spheres of influence" numbers of OTL agreements have different percentages? Will those be, in fact, established at all? Will restoration of pre-1939 borders for Poland and the Baltics ever be a serious issue?
On a strictly military level, if the western powers take Sicily/Sardinia/Corsica and then get a foothold somewhere on the continent 6-12 months before OTL, how will the affect German dispositions. If much is pulled from the Eastern Front the Soviets may make up the lost territory faster than OTL - unlikely but possible as I expect the Germans will be much more worried about Soviet forces getting close to Germany compared to the western forces. As yet occupation agreements for Germany and Austria have not been hammered out, those may change significantly based on the situation on the ground at the time.
Another issue is Japan.Will the Americans (primarily) be pushing as hard for a Soviet commitment to DoW Japan after Germany is done.
On a strictly military level, if the western powers take Sicily/Sardinia/Corsica and then get a foothold somewhere on the continent 6-12 months before OTL, how will the affect German dispositions. If much is pulled from the Eastern Front the Soviets may make up the lost territory faster than OTL - unlikely but possible as I expect the Germans will be much more worried about Soviet forces getting close to Germany compared to the western forces. As yet occupation agreements for Germany and Austria have not been hammered out, those may change significantly based on the situation on the ground at the time.
Another issue is Japan.Will the Americans (primarily) be pushing as hard for a Soviet commitment to DoW Japan after Germany is done.
Story 1941
Southern Russia, March 11, 1943
Overhead Yaks clashed with Junkers. Messchersmitts jumped Illusyshins. Focke Wolfes patrolled looking for Migs and Bell products. Pyres marked where a pilot got lucky and his opponent was unlucky. They were scattered up and down the front. Sometimes there would be clump after a squadron got jumped and then there would be nothing for miles. Other times, a single machine had been brought down.
Beneath a string of flying tanks, a dozen diesel fires burned out of control. A counterattack failed in empty wheat fields. Eighty German tanks were hit hard and fast by one hundred and ten Soviet tanks. The first few minutes were brutal as gunners fired at anything that looked like an opponent. Big guns raked targets at knife fighting ranges. One Panzer IV was destroyed by a trio of shells fired at penalty shot range. However, the veterans of the Eastern Front responded to the surprise better than the attackers could respond to their response. Artillery and mortars soon separated the Soviet infantry from their tanks, and then German platoons began to hunt as packs. By nightfall, the counter-attack that had initial success had been pushed back another seven miles.
Miles to the north, an armored car company paused. Machine guns started to fire. Half a dozen running men fell to the ground awkwardly. The rest went to the ground deliberately. Soon rifle shots pinged off the steel armor of the light armored cars. A radio call was made. The panzergrenadier battalion half an hour behind the scouts would be able to chase the Red Army quartermasters and truck drivers further off the road. The scouts soon continued to advance through a small cross road hamlet of two dozen battered and ramshackle houses and three common buildings. There were no civilians. Some had left when the Heer had surged east in the summer. More had left as the front line came back west during the Red Army’s winter counter-offensive. And the few remaining survivors had run into the fields once they heard hundreds of guns fire and almost a thousand tanks rumble towards them.
Further to the south, a rifle division curved and curled in on itself. Outposts had been overrun by the German spearpoints, but battalions and companies backed by anti-tank guns and thick minefields had been holding onto a few small crossroads. The soldiers in these pockets had taken the time that they had once the spearheads passed and before the motorized infantry and self propelled artillerly could come up to improve their positions. Hasty trenches, and interlocking fields of fire from mutually supporting machine gun pits began to appear before nightfall.
Thirty seven miles to the east, a mechanized corps began to move forward. Scouts were arrayed in a broad line looking for contact even as the tank crews scanned the horizon. Their objective was the narrow neck of land between the German shock troops and their main body.
Driftless
Donor
^^^ That concise listing brings home what a tactical and strategic disaster the outcome of Makassar Straits was for the Japanese of this universe. The actual damage is very large and the proportional damage is even worse. The Japanese still have a potent navy, but the Allies are in so much better shape and have more flexibility in the near and long term.
Makassar strait results
This is authorized canon
Finally, finished infobox on the Battle of Makassar, the largest naval battle of WW2 ITTL, and probably the most deadliest naval battle of the war:
Midway and the Philippine Sea IOTL has nothing compared Makassar Strait ITTL.
Maybe Leyte had more ships, but Makassar is the largest loss of ships in one battle for the Japanese.
Sorry to nitpick but it says the Japanese started with 7 battleships then lists 6 as sunk and 4 damagedFinally, finished infobox on the Battle of Makassar, the largest naval battle of WW2 ITTL, and probably the most deadliest naval battle of the war:
Typo on my end, supposed to be 11 battleships. I counted Kongo class as battleships, as they were refitted that way.
Edit: I have corrected the image.
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formion
Banned
I think the view of the WAllies will be partially decided by the cryptanalysts' findings. If they find moles in the FDR administration and the Manhattan Project, then a change in policy will be quite plausible - perhaps not now, but when the Allied Armies are on their final push and the Third Reich is at its death throes.
Breaking non-randomized and repeated 1 type pads is a long process from noticing something odd to getting anything reliable.
I have not decided... so under one decision path, it is a clue, under the other, it is local color on the B-roll.
Driftless
Donor
Good point on that equipment. I'm sure that much of it is pretty beat up, but some diligent salvage and repair work should get a useful number of vehicles and artillery back into service. Where would it be put to work?
Good point on that equipment. I'm sure that much of it is pretty beat up, but some diligent salvage and repair work should get a useful number of vehicles and artillery back into service. Where would it be put to work?
Anywhere a given unit is unlikely to actually need to fight the Axis - so I am thinking of the Greek Garrison in Crete and any similar non-commonwealth unit that is needed to keep a place occupied but really needing to do any proper fighting
Any unit actually intending to go toe to toe with the Germans or the Italians will need modern first line British or US made kit so it's no good giving it to any unit planning to take part in the liberation of the Continent
I believe that in 1941 some Commonwealth units did use Italian equipment - 1 of the 2 British Armoured Battalions that initially faced off against Rommel's Op Sonnenbaum was using Italian Tanks - and yes they did all pretty much break down on the first day of the battle!
There was also some artillery batteries equipped using Italian artillery - and I seem to recall that some of the Greek Units on Crete were resupplied with Italian Kit (that might not be an actual fact!)
Other than that???
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