Keynes' Cruisers Volume 2
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Given the better jumping off point with Crete and a number of other islands in Allied hands, and Greece being able to supply what, 3 or 4 divisions worth of troops by themselves, Roosevelt probably still wouldn't care, but I could see Churchill keeping an "Army" in the region as a reserve/contingency to take advantage of anything that might come up. By "Army", I'm thinking say a couple odd British infantry divisions, an Indian infantry division, and some other Commonwealth/Empire division. Maybe 2nd South African Division perhaps?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Infantry_Division_(South_Africa)
ITTL, that division wasn't captured and destroyed at Tobruk.
Throw in support units, and maybe not an armored division but maybe an independent armored brigade to round things out.
Given the US might be able to commit several extra divisions, what without having a campaign in Alaska and the Solomons campaign being a pail sideshow compared to OTL, if Churchill does persuade Roosevelt to a Greek operation, maybe the US could free up three or four divisions as an "Army" down the road. Keeps the British and Greeks happy, and if it's a low intensity theater, it might make an effective dumping ground or holding pen for officers that aren't fit for higher profile jobs but that are too politically connected to discard, or for those that could be of use but have no other place to put them and don't want to stick them behind a desk where they might decide retirement is a good idea.
Logically since the 2nd South African was not destroyed, the plans to reform it into an armoured division goes forth. So you get two South African armoured divisions in Egypt (numbers would be 1st and 6th IMS). In addition to this we can reasonably assume the 5th Indian division remains in the Mediterranean and I'd also question the whereabouts of the 9th Australian divisions unless it has been stated it has been shipped east.
After you get a foothold in the Greek mainland and given the improved shipping situation you can reconstitute several Greek army divisions as was done with the French to provide the bulk of the forces for a Balkan front. The territory below the Olympus should suffice for 6 to 8 divisions roughly.
When I was talking about racism vis a vis "American boys dying "needlessly" to free colored folks (pick color)" it was not about the person to person contacts of soldiers. This is more about what would be happening back in the states, especially among certain politicians especially from some areas...
Agreed.
The US political system would be more than happy to lay a distant seige/blockade of Japan if it frees up resources for Germany first. TTL the US was not embarrassed and the resource grab failed.
As I've said, once the Allies manage to get enough strategic territory, they'll blockade Japan, bomb the shit out of its cities (pardon my profanity), sink its merchant fleet, and then wait until Germany is taken out (Hitler's decision to declare war on the US is going to look just as dumb ITTL; OTOH, the US and German navies were all but at war before Hitler did so) to go after Japan with something like the A-Bomb...
No need to apologize for a little profanity here...we are dealing mostly with the Navy at this point. I think I had said one mild swear word (damn) in high school..that was it...before entering the service. By the time I got out of 13 weeks of boot camp I was embarrassed to kiss my mom with the mouth I had developed while there. I'm afraid my vocabulary never totally recovered from the experience of shipboard life, where you can't ask for the salt at the lunch table without adding an expletive.
Based on a quick perusing of wiki.
Wake is 1,900 from Tokyo & Guam is 1,500 (round numbers). Both are within the range of the B-29’s. The current airfield there is 9,850 ft. long.
Given that, I can see
-the US setting up an airbase on Wake for the 1st B-29’s (this’l be less costly & more effective than Operation Matterhorn),
-skip the Gilberts as there is no need ITTL
-the USN seizing the Marshall Islands or some other islands for airbases as needed
-once the Mariana Islands are available, the B-29’s move there and increase the pressure on the Japanese.
As far as the question of invading or blockading Japan goes, no one is invading Japan until after Germany is finished. It will, obviously be blockaded & bombarded (& mined & shelled) all of which would be a preliminary steps to an invasion anyhow.
I don’t know much about Formosa/Taiwan, but I can see the Allies landing on mainland China if it means opening a direct line of supply to Chiang (more effective than either the “Hump” or the Burma Road). But this won’t happen, if it does, until after the PI cleared.
Wake is 1,900 from Tokyo & Guam is 1,500 (round numbers). Both are within the range of the B-29’s. The current airfield there is 9,850 ft. long.
Given that, I can see
-the US setting up an airbase on Wake for the 1st B-29’s (this’l be less costly & more effective than Operation Matterhorn),
-skip the Gilberts as there is no need ITTL
-the USN seizing the Marshall Islands or some other islands for airbases as needed
-once the Mariana Islands are available, the B-29’s move there and increase the pressure on the Japanese.
As far as the question of invading or blockading Japan goes, no one is invading Japan until after Germany is finished. It will, obviously be blockaded & bombarded (& mined & shelled) all of which would be a preliminary steps to an invasion anyhow.
I don’t know much about Formosa/Taiwan, but I can see the Allies landing on mainland China if it means opening a direct line of supply to Chiang (more effective than either the “Hump” or the Burma Road). But this won’t happen, if it does, until after the PI cleared.
If I recall correctly, Formosa wasn't considered ideal because there were too little landing spots that weren't well-defended.
Just a quick look at https://www.distancefromto.net/
Wake island to Tokyo, 3210.59 km, 1994.97 miles
Guam to Tokyo, 2528.53 km, 1571.16 miles
A few other options could be since they want to relive the Philippines anyway,
Luzon (Clark field) to Tokyo 2972.74 km, 1847.17 miles
Luzon (Clark field) to Nagasaki 2170.46 km, 1348.66 miles (added as unlike the above islands you have to fly over much of Japan to get to Tokyo from Luzon)
Batanes (US islands north of Luzon) to Nagasaki 1578.09 km, 980.58 miles
Batanes (US islands north of Luzon) to Tokyo 2422.75 km, 1505.43 miles
Note that the Batanes already had a local fighter strip that was captured and used by the Japanese in the initial invasion and that it would support operations north towards Okinawa,
Luzon (Clark field) to Batanes 604.81 km, 375.81 miles
Batanes (US islands north of Luzon) to Okinawa, 867.11 km, 538.80 miles
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As for the shipping distances... so what?
It's not like the USA is launching multiple liberty ships per day or anythi.. oh wait.
Let TF38 maraud among the bases in the way, smashing them flat, and then send through escorted convoys if its that big an issue, not like the Japanese will have oil to attack them for much longer...
It's not like the USA is launching multiple liberty ships per day or anythi.. oh wait.
Let TF38 maraud among the bases in the way, smashing them flat, and then send through escorted convoys if its that big an issue, not like the Japanese will have oil to attack them for much longer...
OTL the Japanese really misused their submarine force, which could have been a real nuisance had they put an effort in to anti-shipping operations. I wonder if here, given the devastation of the surface fleet so early, if the force might be directed away from the anti-warship focus and more towards commerce destruction. Much easier for subs to hit relatively slow moving convoys than warships moving much faster, and probably screened much better. Single ships or cripples are another factor, but that is a matter of sheer luck. Given that this shift would be a rational approach to Japanese problems and how the USN will have long sea lanes to protect in the Pacific, the IJN probably won't do it.
I could be totally wrong but I thought that a big part of the Japanese subs were used to run supplies to otherwise-blockaded island garrisons that the US left to rot on the vine.
These are the same people who still thought as of the battle of Leyte Gulf, that they could win the Kantai Kessen. So no, that would require someone rational in charge of the Navy.
Driftless
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Following the battles of Makassar Straits, combined with the costly and less than successful campaigns of 1942, might there be some changes coming in top commanders? Of course, how many wild cards were on the Japanese Admirals roster?
Tarawa and Makin IIRC where the main targets in the Gilberts, and both have already been taken. I honestly don't know what all else the Japanese had there, but if they clear the Marshalls, the Gilberts would be a sideshow. Some islands might not have any Japanese troops there or have token forces at best.
A big problem with using Wake Island as B-29 launching would be that given how small Wake actually is you might be able to get 2 or 3 squadrons there at best.
Wake has less then 3 square miles of land area to work with. It's good for regional support to free up a carrier or two, or to use as a way station going or coming from elsewhere, but definitely not suitable for a major bombing campaign.
Guam is over 210 square miles, has enough land area to support numerous airfields and hundreds upon hundreds of B-29s. It's also got places like Apra Harbor to use as a nice deep water port where numerous supply ships can get in and out of. In modern times, it's not unheard of for a Nimitz class CVN to go into port there occasionally.
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