M I L F
My mistake. Middleham, Westminster, why do they all have to be named Edward!
Same reason as all French boys were Charles or Louis with a dash of Philippes in between
M I L F
My mistake. Middleham, Westminster, why do they all have to be named Edward!
Ergo why I'm naming everyone Richard in my TL...
And the future Edward VI can wed Margaret of Austria!
Partially. The Nevilles cleaved to the Yorkists for quite a long time, until Edward IV made a few decisions with his other head and married Elizabeth Woodville, in effect humiliating Richard Neville (16th Earl of Warwick, the Kingmaker, father of Richard III's wife Anne). This, the decreased favor shown to Neville, and the increasing power entrusted to and respect shown toward Earl Rivers (Elizabeth Woodville's brother) all led to Richard Neville's support of rebellion, and to his directly joining Henry VI in his last attempt to regain England.
With Nevilles disgraced and out of the picture, especially once Richard III's wife Anne Neville died, the Percys were able to rather comfortably switch sides.
BUT as for marriages, it really depended. Nations that were centuries-long enemies such as France and England had many royal marriages (Edward I and Margaret, Edward II and the famous Isabelle the She-Wolf, Henry V and Catherine, the planned marriage between Princes (later Kings) John or Richard and Alix (sister of Philippe II), among others). But then there were many duchies and counties that regularly married other nearby families all out of amity, and were close friends and allies. Other times marriage was between the girl of a noble, prestigious family and a less noble man who had attained wealth and status, and could thereby benefit her family immensely. It all depended really, even within the royal family.
Within just this time frame you have:
Catherine of Valois (forced to marry Henry V by peace treaty, because he destroyed France on the battlefield)
Margaret of Anjou (unclear as to why, certainly she had a forceful but loyal personality, perhaps could give England some sort of alliance to the south of France)
Elizabeth Woodville (literally a love match, Edward IV fucked it all up here)
Anne Neville (first married to Edward of Middleham son of Henry VI to tie Richard Neville to the Lancastrians after his defection, later fought over by future Richard III and George of Clarence because of her huge inheritance from her now dead father)
Elizabeth of York (most senior Yorkist heir according to many people's thinking, her blood able to legitimize and stabilize the shaky rule of Henry VII who barely has a leg to stand on)
The reasons really all depend on the situation, more often than not they are matches of convenience between families who are ambivalent or even slightly friendly, not hateful. But one had to tread carefully around royals anyway.
I personally don't believe when Richard set out from the north that he had plans to become king. However as the situation unfolded he became convinced it was the only option. If he had an averse reaction to strawberries it convinced him that they were trying to kill him to get him out of the way.
Richard truly believed that Hastings was trying to kill him.
And of course the fact that Hastings was loyal to Edward IV/V (rather than the Wydevilles) didn't help matters at all.
I'd love to see a TL where Edward V ascends, but dies of natural causes (maybe one of those falls down the stairs @desmirelle likes) and an honest-to-god Richard of Shrewsbury (not that is he, isn't he Perkin Warbeck) becomes King Richard III. Much as the Tudors got me interested in this period in English history, the house (and century) that came before them is far more interesting.
Ya'll keep forgetting that I killed Henry VIII by having him thrown ass over teakettle by a horse. That's way more likely than a trip down the stairs for active young men. I like it way better than the stairs.
And of course the fact that Hastings was loyal to Edward IV/V (rather than the Wydevilles) didn't help matters at all.
I'd love to see a TL where Edward V ascends, but dies of natural causes (maybe one of those falls down the stairs @desmirelle likes) and an honest-to-god Richard of Shrewsbury (not that is he, isn't he Perkin Warbeck) becomes King Richard III. Much as the Tudors got me interested in this period in English history, the house (and century) that came before them is far more interesting.
Thomas Langton said:King Richard contents the people [...] many a poor man [...] relieved and helped by him and his commands. I never liked the conditions of any prince so well as his [...] God hath sent him to us for the weal of us all.
Richard III had a strawberry allergy but died fighting Henry VII at the Battle of Bosworth.Wait, was Richard III killed by strawberries now???? *suspicious glance* I knew there were a reason I disliked those funny things....
Weren’t the raby and middlham branch kind of on the outs with each other since most of the 1st earl of Westmorland lands went to his sons by Joan Beaufort instead of the grandson he shared with his first wife? I guess it’s a decent peace offering to reunite the branch’s of the family(it also comes with the bonus that since the montagu and Beauchamp lands that Anne would inherit are all in the south Westmorland will now have to focus on those area giving lord montagu one less rival in the north)Ralph Neville, 3rd Earl of Westmorland (1456-1499) is the ideal husband. In OTL, he married on 20 February 1473, with Isabel Booth, daughter of Sir Roger Booth, esq. (1396-1497) who was the niece of Lawrence Booth, Archbishop of York, of whom he had a son (Ralph Neville, Lord Neville who died in 1498) and a daughter (Anne Neville). On 6 October 1472 Ralph Neville obtained the reversal of his father's attainder and the restoration of the greater part of his estates, and thereby became Lord Neville. On 18 April 1475, Neville was created a Knight of the Bath together with the sons of King Edward IV.
Our Anne Neville is a best match for Ralph, because she will bring him half of her mother's inheritance. Clarence can't steal all of Beauchamp's inheritance.
Anne Neville (1456-1485) marry Ralph Neville (1456-1499) on December 1472 and they have two children :
Isabel Neville b 1476.
Ralph Neville, 4th Earl of Westmoreland, b 1480.
I’m not sure Percy would be willing cede any land in the north since well it’s the traditional Percy powerbase. Hell I find it more likely he’ll get rid of the more extraneous holding in Anne inheritance to consolidate his northern holdings(that seem to have been his general modus operandi as earl of Northumberland. Sell or trade really extraneous holdings to acquire more northern lands while also trying get all the attainder the family had acquired reversed so all the land that used to belong to them are restored. That and fight off his distance relatives for his mother’s own significant southern inheritance.) while keeping the rest of it part of the southern Percy lands that are mostly used as by them as a source of easy cash. Hell given he surely has a lot more southern land he’s willing to part with then in otl I could see him trying to buy out a few minor northern lords in there entirety.Edouard gives him the keys to the North with the same scenario as Richard de Gloucester and Henri Percy in OTL with the same predominance of John Neville as Gloucester in OTL. Eventually, John Neville proposes a deal to Henri Percy. He marries his niece Anne to Henri Percy to concretize the alliance. In the deal, they exchange lands as Gloucester did. Including Beauchamp's inheritance, in compensation, Percy cedes some manors or share the power in the North.
Sorry I’m so late but the Percy finance at the time were pretty ok. I mean he had a really large amount of people on retainer as was expected for a northern lord in a time of civil strife. But he still was in the top five on the English aristocracy in terms on income behind only the the dukes at the time. Sure there was debt but it was much better then in his father day. His family was in fact able to dish out a thousand pounds for his funeral and his executors were able to spend 4000 marks to marry off his daughter to the Duke of Buckingham. Neither of those two things were able to slow down his son who was famously called the magnificent earl but still died very much solvent with not particularly heavy debts for a landed magnate(most borrowing was in fact short term expedients only done when he needed some ready cash and instantly paid when the rents came in).A Percy would have to basically sit and wait for Clarence to do something extraordinarily stupid (regular stupid was his day-job ) for Edward to reward him more than giving him the Northumberland earldom back. So, he can take Clarence to court, but he has no surety that Edward (or the court) is going to side with him. Which could put Percy finances on even more of a dire spot than they were (not sure about this part, can you help @calvin1417?) . And the Warwick-Beauchamp inheritance was such a mess, that trying to disentangle it was a legalist nightmare. George got all the fancy titles, for instance, but the lands that were actually worth having went to Dickon OTL.
Weren’t the raby and middlham branch kind of on the outs with each other since most of the 1st earl of Westmorland lands went to his sons by Joan Beaufort instead of the grandson he shared with his first wife? I guess it’s a decent peace offering to reunite the branch’s of the family(it also comes with the bonus that since the montagu and Beauchamp lands that Anne would inherit are all in the south Westmorland will now have to focus on those area giving lord montagu one less rival in the north)
I’m not sure Percy would be willing cede any land in the north since well it’s the traditional Percy powerbase. Hell I find it more likely he’ll get rid of the more extraneous holding in Anne inheritance to consolidate his northern holdings(that seem to have been his general modus operandi as earl of Northumberland. Sell or trade really extraneous holdings to acquire more northern lands while also trying get all the attainder the family had acquired reversed so all the land that used to belong to them are restored. That and fight off his distance relatives for his mother’s own significant southern inheritance.) while keeping the rest of it part of the southern Percy lands that are mostly used as by them as a source of easy cash. Hell given he surely has a lot more southern land he’s willing to part with then in otl I could see him trying to buy out a few minor northern lords in there entirety.
Also what happens when clareance falls? Does Anne get the whole of Beauchamp and montagu inheritances? Also wouldn’t he have more of a rivalry with montagu compared to otl Gloucester? I mean he’s the one married to a Neville heiress now and he probably doesn’t particularly like montagu after he stole his ancestral lands. Maybe he’ll scheme to try to do the same with montagu? In any case I wonder what happens in the north when Richard does his thing and Henry Tudor comes a knocking?
Sorry I’m so late but the Percy finance at the time were pretty ok. I mean he had a really large amount of people on retainer as was expected for a northern lord in a time of civil strife. But he still was in the top five on the English aristocracy in terms on income behind only the the dukes at the time. Sure there was debt but it was much better then in his father day. His family was in fact able to dish out a thousand pounds for his funeral and his executors were able to spend 4000 marks to marry off his daughter to the Duke of Buckingham. Neither of those two things were able to slow down his son who was famously called the magnificent earl but still died very much solvent with not particularly heavy debts for a landed magnate(most borrowing was in fact short term expedients only done when he needed some ready cash and instantly paid when the rents came in).
Also very much agree that if Northumberland becomes brother in laws with Clarence the only thing he has to do is wait
Actually she is a very attractive heiress even without the traditional Neville northern patrimony. The earldom of Salisbury was about 750 pounds in income but the real treasure was the combined Beauchamp-despencer inheritance worth about 4000 pounds per annum.Because John Neville has joined Edward IV, Anne is not a very attractive heiress. She inherits only half of her mother's inheritance. So the question of getting her well married is not a very major problem as our OTL. She can also be married to an obscure retainer without ambition.
Afterwards, I admit that a marriage with Percy seduces me a lot.
Actually she is a very attractive heiress even without the traditional Neville northern patrimony. The earldom of Salisbury was about 750 pounds in income but the real treasure was the combined Beauchamp-despencer inheritance worth about 4000 pounds per annum.
Wikipedia said:The Earl's inheritance was disputed and became a celebrated Peerage Case in the 19th century[4] The analysis in several documents deposited at Westcountry Studies library and the Devon History Centre, Exeter, reveal how the bifurcation of the lineage caused the descendants of the female lines to claim patrimony. This was rejected in favour of the cadet Powderham line, despite this being the junior male inheritance.
Read "Edward Courtenay, earl of Devon"