"Io Mihailŭ, Împĕratul Românilor" - A Michael the Brave Romania Wank

Thank you.

Germany has prepared for about 6 years (since the end of the previous war).
France probably less.

I'm afraid that 6 years wound't be enough to train, equip and prepare the supplies for 1.4M men. If I was you I would lower the number to half to make it more plausible. And if I may give another suggestion, don't use Army groups. It would be impracticable for a early 17th century country to concentrate 500 thousand men, under the command of one men (the logistics would be hell, orders would be take days to take from one side to another). Plus i don't think you need 400k to destroy Switzerland or the Netherlands, 100k would be more than enough to do the job. Plus 400k to kill Austria wouldn't be necessary again 100k would most likely do the job, no need to go bankrupted after two days of war. I say this because when I saw the number of soldiers you gave to each side, I thought it was a typo. Germany would be bankrupted to support, train, and transport 1.4M across their lands. France would go bankrupted to support 600k. Unless you are using Levée en masse (and i doubt you could raise those numbers), the states would be bankrupted to maintain those numbers.

I only say this as an advise, even if you don't use it i will look forward for the next update. :D
 
Of course not.
They did not not feel they needed more for the invasion of the Netherlands.

After they got themselves at war with Germany, Britain, Denmark and Sweden, they obviously levied more soldiers:



It was buried in a lot of information and you missed it.

Nah, I did not miss it, I am just not sure how 'more' is more...

France know the Germans wants the Netherlands and they will inevitably clash over it. And they still only levy that number of soldiers and I can only say its really stupid as from the last war they know what the Germans are capable of.
 

Zagan

Donor
I'm afraid that 6 years wound't be enough to train, equip and prepare the supplies for 1.4M men. If I was you I would lower the number to half to make it more plausible. And if I may give another suggestion, don't use Army groups. It would be impracticable for a early 17th century country to concentrate 500 thousand men, under the command of one men (the logistics would be hell, orders would be take days to take from one side to another). Plus i don't think you need 400k to destroy Switzerland or the Netherlands, 100k would be more than enough to do the job. Plus 400k to kill Austria wouldn't be necessary again 100k would most likely do the job, no need to go bankrupted after two days of war. I say this because when I saw the number of soldiers you gave to each side, I thought it was a typo. Germany would be bankrupted to support, train, and transport 1.4M across their lands. France would go bankrupted to support 600k. Unless you are using Levée en masse (and i doubt you could raise those numbers), the states would be bankrupted to maintain those numbers.

I only say this as an advise, even if you don't use it i will look forward for the next update. :D

Oh... Six years of peace between the German Wars, but more than half of the soldiers had already taken part in the First German War only six years previously. So, they had enough training.

Army Groups here was not in the modern sense. Do not imagine a coherent Army Group led by one General. I only meant Groups as in "Group them in the same territory / part of the Country / Front / etc".

I am very bad at medieval economics, I know. Sorry. My mistake.

The fact is that I started to use the levee en masse since the beginning of the TL, starting in Romania, then in Poland, then in Germany and so on.
The idea was to levy around 5-10% of the total population. If I change the numbers for this War, I will have to change them accordingly for the previous wars as well and sadly some of the posts are older than one month and thus uneditable.

Oh, an there weren't 400,000 for Switzerland and Netherlands, only 200,000 for each. 400,000 were only for Austria. I understand that it was an overkill though.

The sad fact ITTL was that each country started to levy more soldiers and the whole thing just snowballed away, basicly bankrupting everyone.

Another problem is that I really want the countries to lose tremendous amounts of wealth and possibly go bankrupt because of these "modern" wars. I want tham to realize that waging wars in this new era of National States using general conscription is not economically viable.
All this is part of my plan. The Great Powers are going to create a Council with the declared intention to stop wars among them in Europe. After all, the forces being comparable, no one Great Power is going to conquer another etc. Colonial Wars can be fought with fewer soldiers, less money and more significant gains. Something like this.

Anyway, your advice is appreciated. There are several options:
1. Modify only the posts than can be still edited and lower the ammounts of soldiers. Leave the older posts unchanged.
2. Put a disclaimer or something and let everyone imagine the correct number.
3. Use your suggestion in the rewrite. Because a publisher is interested in this (in Romanian translation), I will select about half of it and do a rewrite before publishing.
 
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Zagan

Donor
Nah, I did not miss it, I am just not sure how 'more' is more...

France know the Germans wants the Netherlands and they will inevitably clash over it. And they still only levy that number of soldiers and I can only say its really stupid as from the last war they know what the Germans are capable of.

As you can see from the posts of Karolus Rex there is a serious issue with the numbers of soldiers. I try to sort it out but it is difficult. Please read my answer to him as well.

Now, to answer your question, probably another 200,000-300,000 at most.
 
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Zagan

Donor
Some population estimates for 1622:
France: 20-22 million
Germany: 15-17 million

And now a short calculation for Germany:
Population Total: 16 million.
Males: 8 million.
Males between 16 and 50: 5 million.
Of which physically and mentally sound: 4 million.
Of which conscripted: 1.4 million (one third).
Remaining to do agriculture: two thirds, plus the females, some eldery and children.
Enough to feed the 1.4 million soldiers: maybe.
Enough to keep the economy afloat: probably not.
Result: No starvation, but economic downturn, possibly bankruptcy.
 
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I am very bad at medieval economics, I know. Sorry. My mistake.

The fact is that I started to use the levee en masse since the beginning of the TL, starting in Romania, then in Poland, then in Germany and so on.
The idea was to levy around 5-10% of the total population. If I change the numbers for this War, I will have to change them accordingly for the previous wars as well and sadly some of the posts are older than one month and thus uneditable.
Another problem is that I really want the countries to lose tremendous amounts of wealth and possibly go bankrupt because of these "modern" wars. I want tham to realize that waging wars in this new era of National States using general conscription is not economically viable.
All this is part of my plan. The Great Powers are going to create a Council with the declared intention to stop wars among them in Europe. After all, the forces being comparable, no one Great Power is going to conquer another etc. Colonial Wars can be fought with fewer soldiers, less money and more significant gains. Something like this.

If i was you i would be careful with the levee en masse. Nationalism is in his infancy and if any country keep on conscripting their youth eventually the people will revolt (Napoleon used levee en masse so many times that the French hide from the conscript parties).

If you want them to go bankrupted, may i suggest a longest war? In a long war the countries will be forced to keep large numbers of soldiers (some 100k) so they will be forced to do constant conscription.

Imagine a war lasting some twenty years. Both sides will keep the armies at a size viable to their treasury, 40k-120k, but because of the length they will be constantly suffering casualties, forcing them to rely on mercenaries or levee en masse. Men will refuse to serve so they have to hire mercenaries. The mercenaries will be expensive so in the end the states will be bankrupted or as close to that that they will be the most peace loving countries for the next decade or two.
 

Zagan

Donor
If i was you i would be careful with the levee en masse. Nationalism is in his infancy and if any country keep on conscripting their youth eventually the people will revolt (Napoleon used levee en masse so many times that the French hide from the conscript parties).

If you want them to go bankrupted, may i suggest a longest war? In a long war the countries will be forced to keep large numbers of soldiers (some 100k) so they will be forced to do constant conscription.

Imagine a war lasting some twenty years. Both sides will keep the armies at a size viable to their treasury, 40k-120k, but because of the length they will be constantly suffering casualties, forcing them to rely on mercenaries or levee en masse. Men will refuse to serve so they have to hire mercenaries. The mercenaries will be expensive so in the end the states will be bankrupted or as close to that that they will be the most peace loving countries for the next decade or two.

Well...
1. You are right.
2. The changes would be so extensive that I can not do it until the rewrite.
For example, a longer German war would allow the Powers which fought the Anti-Ottoman War to recover and to intervene in the German War. And this would change other things and so on.

Result:
1. Sorry, I will keep it like this for now (with possible minor modifications).
2. I accept that this is an error of my TL.
3. I hope that you and other members will continue to read it regardless of this error.
4. I will try to do it right for now on.

Thank you again for pointing it to me.
 
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Well...
Result:
1. Sorry, I will keep it like this for now (with possible minor modifications).
2. I accept that this is an error of my TL.
3. I hope that you and other members will continue to read it regardless of this error.
4. I will try to do it right for now on.

Thank you again for pointing it to me.

No need to be sorry mate we all make errors :D. In my TL, because the Parthians and Persians had different languages, I thought they were different people, but I was mistaken and one of the member said it to me.

I will keep reading and I wait for whats coming. :D

I can just hope you find it in your hearth to free my little Portugal from the big bad bully most people call Spain (I like to call them idiots that tried to conquer us to many times and got their asses kicked :D)
 

Zagan

Donor
I can just hope you find it in your hearth to free my little Portugal from the big bad bully most people call Spain (I like to call them idiots that tried to conquer us to many times and got their asses kicked :D)

It will be even better... :D My plans regarding the Iberian Empire are beyond the grotesque. You only have to wait.
If you want a spoiler about the future of the Iberian Empire, I can P.M. you.

No need mate i will wait, but thanks. :D

Ok.
 
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Zagan

Donor
Next (not necessary in this order):
- Unrest (small, localized wars and revolts) in the Balkan Peninsula and the Italian Peninsula. (Maps?)
- Great Power Conference & Great Power Council. (Maps?)
- Romania after the Wars & the Proclamation of the Empire of Romania.
- Europe after the Wars.
- The Situation outside Europe; Colonialism and Colonial Wars. Maps.
- Second Romanian-Ottoman War. Maps.
- Death of Emperor Mihai & Succession.
- Romania after Mihai; Statistics & Maps.
- End of Part One.
- Part Two (Modern Alternate History, 16xx - ~1880)
- Part Three (Contemporary AH, ~1880 - Present / Near Future)

Note: The three Parts are supposed to be of similar size. Part One is already at least 75% ready.

Any suggestions?
Anything else I should cover?
 
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Table #1. 1625 Census Data: Ethnicity

Zagan

Donor
Well... It seems I had a little trouble with the next chapters. I will sort it out in a day or two. Sorry.
In the mean time, have some statistics.


1625 Census Data: Ethnicity


Ethnicity 1627.png

Notes:
1.
This is a screenshot from an Excel Chart.
2. All percentages and totals are autocalculated. Duh.
3. "K" in the Headers means Thousands.
4. Everything is rounded to an integral number of thousands / integral percentage.
5. The names of the Provinces are in Romanian. For some corresponding English names and their location on a map, see this post.
6. "Others" in the Headers means "Ethnicity unknown / unclear".
7. Real values may have been different. This is a census carried on by the Romanian authorities.
8.
Population density in the new territories was lower.

Question: Would anyone like to see / download the actual Excel file (*.xlsx)? If yes, I will zip it and attach the zip file here.


More tables are to be expected (soon):
- Religion
- Status / Occupation
- Citizenship
- Maybe other data

More census data will be presented in a diacronic perspective (one every several decades).

Sorry for the very wide image. I could not make it any narrower. The following tables will be considerably narrower.
 
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Table #2. 1625 Census Data: Religion

Zagan

Donor

1625 Census Data: Religion


Religion 1627.png

Notes:
1.
This is a screenshot from an Excel Chart.
2. All percentages and totals are autocalculated. Duh.
3. "K" in the Headers means Thousands.
4. Everything is rounded to an integral number of thousands / integral percentage.
5. The names of the Provinces are in Romanian. For some corresponding English names and their location on a map, see this post.
6. "Others" in the Headers means "Russian Orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, Georgian Orthodox, Other Orthodox, Calvinist, Other Protestant, Jewish, other, unknown, unclear".
7. Real values may have been different. This is a census carried on by the Romanian authorities.
8.
Population density in the new territories was lower.

Question: Would anyone like to see / download the actual Excel file (*.xlsx)? If yes, I will zip it and attach the zip file here.

More census data will be presented in a diacronic perspective (one every several decades).
 
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Zagan

Donor
I made several edits to the last few chapters:
- The usual spelling, grammar, topic and logic corrections (which I make from time to time anyway).
- A few additions.
- Scaled down a little the number of soldiers fighting in the wars.
- Removed / reworded the references to Army Groups (it had never been intended to represent Army Groups in the modern sense of the term anyway).
- Changed the name of the unit Grave.

Thank you for your suggestions which help me to make my TL a little better.

Updates (new chapters) are on their way.
 
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I.33. Europe after the Wars

Zagan

Donor
"Had the European Powers suddenly become peace-loving?"
"No. Only that their finances had become extremely strained!"


Europe after the Wars



11 February 1625, Brussels, France

Brussels Peace Treaty

I. The war in Western Europe is over.
The Signatories accept the utter futility of the war they fought, since no one was victorious and indeed, in such wars between Great Powers, no one can hope to completely vanquish its enemy and end the war in total victory.
In view of this fact, the Signatories will look for other means to solve their future conflicts and promise to recourse to diplomacy and mediation rather than war.


II. The Entity known as the Holy Roman Empire does not exist any more.
The Signatories urge the other European Powers to recognize the de facto situation and to accept the disestablishment of the former Holy Roman Empire.


III. The Signatories recognize the Statehood and the Independence of the Federal Structure called Germany (Deutschreich) or the German Empire (Keiserreich Deutschreich).
The component States of the German Empire are not Sovereign States themselves, but rather internal divisions of the German Empire.
No external Power can hold any influence over any of the German States.
No Ruler of an external Power can rule in Personal Union a German State. If the Ruler of an external Power inherits the Throne of a German State, said Ruler must relinquish all his rights immediately or find himself and his Country automatically at war with Germany.


IV. Germany has the right to organize internally in any way it desires without any interference from outside its borders.
The German Empire and its constituent States may decide to create new States, disolve existing States, merge States, split States, alter internal State boundaries, change the Rulers or the form of Government of individual States or enact any other changes they consider necessary for the benefit of the German People and Empire.
In case of a dynastic crisis, no external Power has any right to intervene in any way, the only authorities entitled to solve the crisis being the lawful assembly of that State and the German Parliament.
As a matter of fact, the same rights are to be enjoyed by any Sovereign Country, old or new, be it a Great Power or the most insignificant State.


V. The borders of Germany are shown on the map which is an integral part of this Treaty.

VI. The Entity called Italy is a confederation of the former Italian States of the Holy Roman Empire and shall be under the benevolent protection of France.
The National Unity of Italy shall be achieved at the time when the National Consciousness of the Italian People will allow themselves to properly administrate their future State.


VII. The Germans who are now Subjects of France shall have the right to use their own language in all matters, public and private.

VIII. All Christians in Germany have the right to worship God in any way they desire and are all equal before the Law.

IX. A Great Power Conference will be held in Prague in June, A.D. 1626.
A Great Power is defined to be a country which:
i) Is a Sovereign State.
ii) Has political independence.
iii) Has economic independence.
iv) Has military independence.
v) Is a Christian State.
vi) Is a European State.
vii) Has at least three million subjects.
viii) Has a territory at least as large as the territory of the British Isles.
ix) Maintains control over most of its territory and subjects.
x) Has means of exerting power both inside and outside its borders.
Germany, France, Spain, Britannia, Sarmatia and Romania meet all the criteria.
Scandinavia and Sweden meet criterium vii) only if united into a single Country.
Russia does not meet criteria ix) and x), because of its current state of Civil War.
The Ottoman Empire does not meet criteria v) and vi).
The other countries do not meet most of the criteria.


Signed today, 11 February, A.D. 1625, in Brussels, by the Plenipotentiaries of:
Kingdom of France, ............
German Empire, ............
Kingdom of Britannia, ............
Kingdom of Scandinavia, ............
Kingdom of Sweden, ............
Republic of Venice, ............
State of Croatia, ............



European Countries in 1625 - 1630

The political map of Europe had simplified tremendously since the start of the century. Hundreds of states have disappeared, being consolidated into several unified countries.
Europe had never been divided in a smaller number of independent countries.

Great Powers:
1. Iberian Empire
(former Portugal, Castille, Aragon, Naples, Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica, North Africa, etc)
2. Kingdom of France (including French Netherlands / Belgium, Lorraine, Burgundy, Savoy, Nice, Piedmont, Geneva, etc)
3. German Empire (including Austria, Salzburg, the Swiss Cantons, the United Netherlands, etc)
4. Kingdom of Britannia (former England, Scotland, Ireland, etc)
5. Kingdom of Sarmatia (former Poland, Lithuania, Prussia, Livonia, Estonia, Crimean Khanate, Caffa, Azov, etc; vassals: Finland, Georgia)
6. Principality of Romania (former Transylvania, Moldavia, Wallachia, Ottoman Europe, etc)
7. Kingdom of Scandinavia (former Denmark, Norway, Schleswig, etc)
8. Kingdom of Sweden (only Sweden proper; will unite with Scandinavia in 1626-1644)
9. Tsardom of Russia (stable from 1627; will reassert its rule over the Cossacks in 1633)

Lesser States:
10. Principality of Slovakia
11. Principality of Croatia
12. Principality of Hungary
(from 1629)
13. Principality of Greece
14. Republic of Venice
(will start the Unification of Italy in the 1630')
15. Rome (Papal States)
16. Italian Confederation

Non-European States having territory in or around Europe:
17. Ottoman Empire
(including rump Ottoman Europe, Asia Minor, Western Armenia, Western Mesopotamia, Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Cyrenaica, etc)
18. Persia (including Persia proper, Eastern Armenia, Eastern Mesopotamia, Azerbaidjan, etc)
19. Circassia (unrecognized; claimed by Sarmatia and Russia / Cossacks)
20. Barbary States (unrecognized; claimed by Iberia)
21. Morocco (claimed by Iberia)
 
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It seems to fit the definition. :)
Time to change the status of the country I reckon.It's a bit awkward for a great power to be a mere principality.

Given the Germans have taken the lead by declaring their leader emperor unilaterally,I don't think it matters anymore if another power called their leader an emperor.

Are Slovakia,Croatia and Greece supposed to be vassals/protectorates/tributaries of any great powers?Would think they would at least call themselves kingdoms,especially with Greece and Croatia given their history.
 
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