First one is going to be Queen Elizabeth, no doubt about it. The second one is the name up in the air and my personal favourite would be Warspite, but the current holder of the name only paid off in 1991, so it's not likely to be used.

The likely choice is going to be to reuse the name Eagle, because it will have that essential thing going for it, the utter outrage of the British public at the Treasury if it tries to get her cancelled after her namesakes performance during the Falklands War.
 
Public sentiment aided and abetted by the tabloids would probably lean towards naming one of them Eagle.

Yes, if you want maximum cancel-proof names, then Queen Elizabeth and Eagle would be tough to beat.

Otherwise, the naming used in CVA-01 class (well, so far as we know) and the new QE class suggests the second one gets named for the Royal Family, too.

It's a pity the third carrier isn't going to be built since it would make operational rotations much more robust (and give you some margin if you happen to lose one, God forbid), but post-Cold War it's going to be hard enough for the RN to keep enough escorts afloat for these monsters, as we're seeing right now.
 
Yes, if you want maximum cancel-proof names, then Queen Elizabeth and Eagle would be tough to beat.

Otherwise, the naming used in CVA-01 class (well, so far as we know) and the new QE class suggests the second one gets named for the Royal Family, too.

It's a pity the third carrier isn't going to be built since it would make operational rotations much more robust (and give you some margin if you happen to lose one, God forbid), but post-Cold War it's going to be hard enough for the RN to keep enough escorts afloat for these monsters, as we're seeing right now.
On the plus side the RN in this timeline will not have to pay for what becomes the Type 45 and the carriers( and their highly expensive airwings) at the same time which means its highly likely the RN get the originally planned 12 and its also highly unlikely the frigate force will be allowed to drop below 16(and ideally 20) ships in both cases this will occure due to the need to escort the carriers and do other missions as well. Lets just hope at least 12 Astutes are built as well for much the same reasons
 
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It's a pity the third carrier isn't going to be built since it would make operational rotations much more robust (and give you some margin if you happen to lose one, God forbid), but post-Cold War it's going to be hard enough for the RN to keep enough escorts afloat for these monsters, as we're seeing right now.

If world events stay the same it's very possible the second carrier doesn't get built.
 
It's a pity the third carrier isn't going to be built since it would make operational rotations much more robust (and give you some margin if you happen to lose one, God forbid), but post-Cold War it's going to be hard enough for the RN to keep enough escorts afloat for these monsters, as we're seeing right now.

If world events stay the same it's very possible the second carrier doesn't get built.
Fortunately the RN in this timeline has plot armor(ie public opinion and authorital favor) as related to building its two new carriers.
 
On the plus side the RN in this timeline will not have to pay for what becomes the Type 45 and the carriers(their airwing) at the same time which means its highly likely the RN get the originally planned 12 and its also highly unlikely the frigate force will be allowed to drop below 16(and ideally 20) ships in both cases this will occure due to the need to escort the carriers and do other missions as well. Lets just hope at least 12 Astutes are built as well for much the same reasons

No, this is a good point.

Of course, you can never underestimate the Treasury's moxie to cut even further, regardless of which party is in power...
 

SsgtC

Banned
It's a pity the third carrier isn't going to be built since it would make operational rotations much more robust (and give you some margin if you happen to lose one, God forbid), but post-Cold War it's going to be hard enough for the RN to keep enough escorts afloat for these monsters, as we're seeing right now.

If world events stay the same it's very possible the second carrier doesn't get built.
Yeah, that second carrier needs to get laid down no later than 1988/early 89 to be far enough along to avoid cancellation
 
It's a pity the third carrier isn't going to be built since it would make operational rotations much more robust (and give you some margin if you happen to lose one, God forbid), but post-Cold War it's going to be hard enough for the RN to keep enough escorts afloat for these monsters, as we're seeing right now.

If world events stay the same it's very possible the second carrier doesn't get built.

Oh, sure, that's a real risk here, obviously.

Maybe JamesHunter is onto the best strategy for that: get that second hull underway as fast as possible:

Good to see the ships start building in 1987 as it means they'll be to far along to be disrupted by a peace dividend after 1992. Even if Hull #2 only starts in 1989 ot should be quite far along and Hull #1 should be fitting out when the cold war ends (that date is unlikely to move much as the economy in the USSR didn't fully go to pot until after 1989).

In which case the risk here may be more that the second hull gets its construction and fitting out timeline stretched out. I could see Lamont, with his obsession on reducing borrowing, pushing for economies here. And after all, we know what he did do to MoD spending in OTL:

_81438771_uk_defence_spending_624.gif


Still, I don't think @Spencersj345.346 is right to say that @flasheart is employing "plot armor," properly understood, since the timeline as he has it is extremely plausible; and given the public reaction to Eagle's success, there is at least a fighting chance that MoD could get two carriers like this built, so long as they do not dilly-dally. It will help, obviously, that Thatcher backs it (as I think she would), and that she is going to get a third government in before she's out of power. A Kinnock victory in '87 (whatever you think of him otherwise) would almost certainly put paid to one and possibly both of them.
 
No, this is a good point.

Of course, you can never underestimate the Treasury's moxie to cut even further, regardless of which party is in power...
How Her Majesty's armed forces haven't snapped and leveled the treasury building and all those inside at least once is truly one of the world's great mysteries
 
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Plus, it'll be popular with voters in the region the ships are being built - well-paid manufacturing jobs...

Right. And this is one more reason for urgency in getting the second hull laid down. Because now it's got actual workers working on it, families who know their livelihood depends on that ship in a way that is real, not theoretical and in the misty future.
 
I don't really understand why you are all going for Battleship and Battlecruiser names when there are so many existing carrier names to be used, I mean there are just the highlights.

Arc Royal
Eagle
Furious
Hermes
Victorious
Glorious
Courageous
Illustrious
Formidable
Indomitable
Implacable
Indefatigable
Colossus
Glory
Triumph
Vengeance
Majestic
Magnificent
Terrible
 
I don't really understand why you are all going for Battleship and Battlecruiser names when there are so many existing carrier names to be used, I mean there are just the highlights.

Arc Royal
Eagle
Furious
Hermes
Victorious
Glorious
Courageous
Illustrious
Formidable
Indomitable
Implacable
Indefatigable
Colossus
Glory
Triumph
Vengeance
Majestic
Magnificent
Terrible
Alas its traditional that the lead ship of the first class of capital ships of a monarch's reign is named after them. Mind you there are exceptions to this like the second KGV class. Also why does the Royal Navy get all the cool names while the USN only gets a handful of them? Its just not fair
 
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One of the first issues that designers had to content with was a lack of experience. The only aircraft carriers built in Britain in the last 20 years were the 3 ships of the INVINCIBLE class. These were small light carriers without such complicated things like aircraft catapults and arrestor wires and angled flight decks. The last “conventional” carrier was the MAJESTIC class HMS HERCULES which had been completed in 1961. Even then that particular ship had been launched in 1945 and immediately laid up uncompleted when the end of the war made her surplus to requirements. In 1957 she had been taken in hand for completion but even something as theoretically simple as fitting out the empty hulk had taken four years. HERCULES had been subsequently sold to India where she was still serving as INS VIKRANT (It was known that the Indian’s where starting to look for a replacement).

The last time the Royal Navy had attempted to build a large conventional carrier was the CVA 01 program that had been cancelled while it was still on the drawing board in 1966.

The upshot was there was no one involved with the project who had any practical experience in designing or building the kind of large aircraft carrier that was demanded. This actually had a significant influence on the final design as the designers were forced to start from scratch rather than producing an evolution of an existing design as was often seen with other warship types.

I'd like to highlight this passage, because it helps illustrate the short-sightedness of British governments over the last century in maintaining their defence industrial base. And it's entirely on point, because we saw the same thing happen in OTL when it came time last decade to design the Queen Elizabeths, too. A lot of things had to be re-learned (or cribbed from abroad).

It first occurred with the Washington Naval Treaty and Britain's acceptance of the 10 year building holiday for capital ships. The Treasury certainly liked it, because of the huge short-term savings it promised; but no one seems to have reflected on what that would do to the design and building skillsets needed to lay down advanced capital warships. Britain lost a lot of that base, and never really got it all back. It would have been far smarter to rework the Treaty to permit some minimal cycle of capital ship replacement, to keep their designers' hands in the game, and keep at least a couple major yards with the necessary skillsets working.

Of course, in the Cold War and post-Cold War it's not going to be possible (given the enormous costs of modern carriers/amphibious assault ships) to maintain anything close to that tempo, but when you're going full generations without designing or laying down even a single capital ship, that's a problem.

Of course, the problem cannot be confined to the RN/MoD (which has fought and lost some of these battles for ship procurement, after all). It's a more fundamental problem of contemporary democratic politics, and not just in Britain.
 
Alas its traditional that the lead ship of the first class of capital ships of a monarch's reign is named after them. Mind you there are exceptions to this like the second KGV class.

If that were the case, though, the Invincible would have surely been renamed for Queen Elizabeth, after CVA-01's cancellation. Though it's tricky to even talk about that, since technically both CVA-01 and R08 were really named for the battleship, which in turn was named for Gloriana, not the current holder of the name - and yet, as we know, there's a sense in which it is definitely something of a reference to the incumbent, too.

But yes, if the Royal Navy is smart, it will think especially hard on the politics of naming. And it is hard to think of more budget bulletproof names than Eagle and Queen Elizabeth at that juncture.
 
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Also why does the Royal Navy get all the cool names while the USN only gets a handful of them? Its just not fair

In the 20th century, it's really been a question of democratic politics: Far easier to get political support for ships named for political jusrisdictions (cities, states), politicians, or Medal of Honor heroes than it is a saucy adjective or Greco-Roman hero or deity. But even in Britain now, it's pretty arguably more a tradition of really naming such ships for famous past ships, than the words themselves.

But then the U.S. was keen to assert itself ideologically from the Mother Country almost from Day One: It was George Washington who insisted that the famous first six frigates be inspired by the U.S. Constitution (which only Chesapeake violated, two years after Washington's retirement, thanks to Maryland native US Navy Secretary Benjamin Stoddart).

I admit, though: the British ship naming conventions are a lot more inspiring.
 
In the 20th century, it's really been a question of democratic politics: Far easier to get political support for ships named for political jusrisdictions (cities, states), politicians, or Medal of Honor heroes than it is a saucy adjective or Greco-Roman hero or deity. But even in Britain now, it's pretty arguably more a tradition of really naming such ships for famous past ships, than the words themselves.

But then the U.S. was keen to assert itself ideologically from the Mother Country almost from Day One: It was George Washington who insisted that the famous first six frigates be inspired by the U.S. Constitution (which only Chesapeake violated, two years after Washington's retirement, thanks to Maryland native US Navy Secretary Benjamin Stoddart).

I admit, though: the British ship naming conventions are a lot more inspiring.
Mind you the USN has had some gems such as Reprisal and Intrepid.
 
I don't really understand why you are all going for Battleship and Battlecruiser names when there are so many existing carrier names to be used, I mean there are just the highlights.

Arc Royal
Eagle
Furious
Hermes
Victorious
Glorious
Courageous
Illustrious
Formidable
Indomitable
Implacable
Indefatigable
Colossus
Glory
Triumph
Vengeance
Majestic
Magnificent
Terrible
Because when one sees a battleship (or any other all gun warship), it gets the blood pumping, when one sees an aircraft carrier, its like "ok cool, wheres the gift shop". Even thought the carrier is without a doubt the more powerful and useful capital ship. All jokes aside, i would think the RN should harken back to names previously used on battleships or battlecruisers, definitely could help with publicity .
 
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