Henry Tudor, Heretic and Father of Kings
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The good catch on the first. And the second Anna Jagelloncia is the Aunt of the Anna married to Charles of Castile. OTL She was the wife of Ferdinand. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_of_Bohemia_and_Hungary
I was confused when I checked until I checked my notes.
I hadn’t realized until now they had the same name. Do you think changing the younger’s name would keep it from confusing anyone else. Or do you think adding the link was enough?
Valois Family in 1580
His Majesty Francis I Valois, (1494-1547), King of France married Her Majesty Claude Valois, (1499-1524), Queen of France, Duchess of Brittany
1) Her Highness Louise Valois, (1515-1564), Queen of Scotland; Princess of France married His Majesty James V Stewart, (1512-1542), King of Scotland
See James V Stewart
2) Her Highness Charlotte Valois, (1516-1520), Princes of France
3) His Highness Francis Valois, (1518-1536), Dauphin of France, Duke of Brittany married Her Highness Maria Aviz, age 61, Dowager Dauphine of France, Dowager Duchess of Brittany, Infanta of Portugal
See Maria Aviz
4) His Majesty Henry II Valois, (1519-1562), King of France m. Her Majesty Isabella Jagiellon (1519-1560), Queen of France, Princess of Poland
1) His Majesty Charles IX (1545-1563), King of France married Her Majesty Marie Stuart, age 38, Queen Dowager of France, Maîtresse-En-Titre, no issue
2) Her Majesty Margaret Valois (1549-1563), Queen Claimant of France married His Majesty Charles Stewart, (1540-1562), jure uxoris King Claimant of France, Duke of Ross
See Charles Stewart
3) Her Highness Isabelle Valois (1552-1557), Princess of France
5) Her Highness Madeleine Valois (1520-1565), Queen Mother of Hungary, Princess of France married His Highness Casimir V Jagiellon, (1519-1573), King of Hungary and Bohemia
See King Casimir V
6) His Highness Charles Valois, (1522-1542), Duke of Anjou, Prince of France married Louise de Guise, (1520-1556), Queen Mother of France
1) His Majesty Louis XIII Valois, age 40, King of France married Her Majesty Helena Habsburg, age 37, Queen of France, Archduches of Austria; had relations with Her Majesty Marie Stuart, age 38, Queen Dowager of France, Maîtresse-En-Titre to King Louis XIII
With Queen Helene:
See Tudor Family, Arthur I Tudor’s descendants
With Queen Marie:
See Tudor Family, Margaret Tudor’s descendants
2) His Highness Claude Valois, age 24, Duke of Anjou, Prince of France
7) Her Majesty Margaret Valois, (1523-1575), Queen of Aragon, Princess of France married His Majesty Ferdinand III Trastamara, age 67, King of Aragon
See King Ferdinand
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Epilogue One - Henry's Grave
Just wanted to say thanks to @curlyhairedhippie and @Tyler96 for nominating and seconding Henry Tudor, Heretic and Father of Kings for the 2020 Turtledoves - Best Early Modern Timeline category! I am very flattered!
“King Henri III of Navarre would not long survive his father. Shortly after announcing his father’s death, he would fall victim to a winter chill and die. His final request was to be buried beside his father.”
“Perhaps, Aunt, if thou intercede, Grandfather’s remains might be more rapidly sent home? For it was the last wish of Aita[1] to be buried by his father. Having failed so many times, I would not wish to fail again.”
[1] The Basque word for papa. King Henri IV was much more familiar with the Basque language—the language of the common people of Navarre—and this is one of the contributing reasons for his title, The People’s King.
“One of history’s sad/funny anecdotes is the fight over Prince Henry Tudor’s body. Prince Henry would die in England and his youngest son and widow would oversee his magnificent funeral. Then the Navarrese Ambassador, on behalf of the newly crowned King Henri IV of Navarre, would request that his body be sent to Navarre. After all it had been Navarre that Prince Henry had ruled as King.
For the next three hundred years, Navarre would regularly request Prince Henry’s body back. It would be King Alexander FitzTudor that would finally send Prince Henry’s body to Navarre.”
“As letters continued to fly back and forth between England and Navarre, it became evident to King Henri IV that Prince Henry’s remains might not return in his lifetime. So, to honor his grandfather, King Henri IV would posthumously award Prince Henry the title King Father as counterpart to Queen Mother.”
“King Henri III of Navarre would not long survive his father. Shortly after announcing his father’s death, he would fall victim to a winter chill and die. His final request was to be buried beside his father.”
Patrick Wendal, “The First Navarrese Tudor King”
“Perhaps, Aunt, if thou intercede, Grandfather’s remains might be more rapidly sent home? For it was the last wish of Aita[1] to be buried by his father. Having failed so many times, I would not wish to fail again.”
Letter from the newly crowned King Henri IV to his aunt, Dowager Duchess Elizabeth of Suffolk
[1] The Basque word for papa. King Henri IV was much more familiar with the Basque language—the language of the common people of Navarre—and this is one of the contributing reasons for his title, The People’s King.
“One of history’s sad/funny anecdotes is the fight over Prince Henry Tudor’s body. Prince Henry would die in England and his youngest son and widow would oversee his magnificent funeral. Then the Navarrese Ambassador, on behalf of the newly crowned King Henri IV of Navarre, would request that his body be sent to Navarre. After all it had been Navarre that Prince Henry had ruled as King.
For the next three hundred years, Navarre would regularly request Prince Henry’s body back. It would be King Alexander FitzTudor that would finally send Prince Henry’s body to Navarre.”
Matheo Henrikson, “The 1500’s Was A Crazy Century, and It Was Mostly the Tudors’ Fault”
“As letters continued to fly back and forth between England and Navarre, it became evident to King Henri IV that Prince Henry’s remains might not return in his lifetime. So, to honor his grandfather, King Henri IV would posthumously award Prince Henry the title King Father as counterpart to Queen Mother.”
Ethan Davidson, “Henry IV, the People’s King”
It's weird to hear the term King Father in regards to European monarchies given how patrilineal they are. Also, I Ioved that bit about Navarre and England playing tug of war with Henry's corpse.
On another note, with that last part (Henry's body being returned to Navarre 300 years later) is that implying that Navarre as a kingdom lasting up to the start of the 20th Century? Are other Spanish provinces independent in this timeline?
On another note, with that last part (Henry's body being returned to Navarre 300 years later) is that implying that Navarre as a kingdom lasting up to the start of the 20th Century? Are other Spanish provinces independent in this timeline?
Well, they were both ruled by Tudors, so expect a certain level of pridefulness. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Navarre exists in the current day, with some border differences. There were a couple wars early in the timeline that allowed Navarre to take back some territory from Aragon, and then the Bourbons never became the ruling dynasty of Navarre so no union with France.
Aragon and Castile separate but there aren't any further splintering. Some different nation combinations in the Iberian Peninsula though. I have a map I'm working on, which should be done in a week or so.
Did Queen Mother exist as a title already? Or did that come later? Because I like the sound of King Paternal better than King Father, but if Queen Mother already exists I feel like the two titles should match.
Looking it up it appears King Father was used in the Iberian kingdoms as the equivalent of Queen Dowager, someone who king (queen) by right of marriage (I.e a consort). Queen Mother seems to have arisen in England to refer to Queen Dowagers who were also mother of the monarch - apparently used for Catherine Parr Queen Dowager and stepmother of Edward V, Mary I, and Elizabeth I; and Margaret Tudor, Queen Dowager of Scotland.
So it looks like in English we had "Queen Dowager & Mother" or "Queen Dowager, Mother to" > "Queen Mother".
I'm unsure what the Iberian contraction was.
Perhaps you could get away using latin derivatives Rex Uxoris et Pater Regis -> Patregis? Thus Matregis. And these then partly anglicised?
With Navarre being partially located in the Iberian Peninsula King Father might be the most natural, even though it does sound awkward. And I'm not confident in my latin to try my hand at anything like that, though they do should better.
Maybe with French being the court language the title was Père du Roi with the anglicization being King Paternal?
Epilogue Two - Media
“For six seasons we have all watched as Damian Lewis knocked it out of the park as the dashing Prince Henry. But like all good things we knew it would have to end. This season’s finale was fabulous and heart wrenching as The Tudors depicted Prince Henry’s death. But have no fear, the show will continue, with Callum Turner’s Prince Edmund as the shows new focus.”
“Amy Grant’s new song, “Mother’s Love,” will serve as main theme song for Joe Wright’s The Stewart Queen. Drawing from the melody of Prince Henry’s “A Father’s Loss,” Grant uses several of Queen Margaret’s letters to her cousin discussing her children and the difficulties of being a Queen and a mother as inspiration for the lyrics. While it’s an obvious award bait song, we think it’s going to work.
Somewhere between a power ballad and a lullaby, “Mother’s Love” will move you to tears.”
“Maria Menounos: Joining us today is award winning composer Robert Lopez here to talk about his new musical, 200 Years. Now Robert, how did this musical get started?
Robert Lopez: Growing up I wasn’t aware that there were more Tudors than Queen Kathryn. The single largest topic of historical media is the the Tudors. But people only talk about Prince Henry or Queen Kathryn.
Maria Menounos: Is that what prompted 200 Years?
Robert Lopez: Yes, there were nine monarchs in the Tudor Dynasty and we really only talk about one… and her grandfather. I wanted to give the others a change to speak.
Maria Menounos: Or sing. But, Prince Henry wasn’t a monarch, was he?
Robert Lopez: No, the Prince Henry character serves as a narrator. He doesn’t get his own song.
Maria Menounos: Though he tries right?
Robert Lopez: Yes, Prince Henry gets to break the fourth wall. He’s constantly trying to sing one of his songs.
Maria Menounos: And it’s always one of the songs he wrote himself?”
Blurb announcing the sixth season of The Tudors
“Amy Grant’s new song, “Mother’s Love,” will serve as main theme song for Joe Wright’s The Stewart Queen. Drawing from the melody of Prince Henry’s “A Father’s Loss,” Grant uses several of Queen Margaret’s letters to her cousin discussing her children and the difficulties of being a Queen and a mother as inspiration for the lyrics. While it’s an obvious award bait song, we think it’s going to work.
Somewhere between a power ballad and a lullaby, “Mother’s Love” will move you to tears.”
Musical Review for Amy Grants “Mother’s Love”
“Maria Menounos: Joining us today is award winning composer Robert Lopez here to talk about his new musical, 200 Years. Now Robert, how did this musical get started?
Robert Lopez: Growing up I wasn’t aware that there were more Tudors than Queen Kathryn. The single largest topic of historical media is the the Tudors. But people only talk about Prince Henry or Queen Kathryn.
Maria Menounos: Is that what prompted 200 Years?
Robert Lopez: Yes, there were nine monarchs in the Tudor Dynasty and we really only talk about one… and her grandfather. I wanted to give the others a change to speak.
Maria Menounos: Or sing. But, Prince Henry wasn’t a monarch, was he?
Robert Lopez: No, the Prince Henry character serves as a narrator. He doesn’t get his own song.
Maria Menounos: Though he tries right?
Robert Lopez: Yes, Prince Henry gets to break the fourth wall. He’s constantly trying to sing one of his songs.
Maria Menounos: And it’s always one of the songs he wrote himself?”
Interview Regarding 200 Years: The Musical
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Epilogue Three - Margaret and Margaret
“Perhaps the most interesting historical relationship is that of Queen Margaret Stewart of England and Queen Margaret Stuart of Scotland.
On one hand we have Queen Margaret Stewart of England a woman who is Queen Regent and would like nothing more than to hand ruling off to her husband, who would like to devote her time to writing and her children. She was madly in love with her husband and was reticent, modest, and devotedly religious. She grew up surrounded by family and absolutely sure of her place in the world.
On the other is Queen Margaret of Scotland who is Queen Consort and who really feels—and an argument could be made that—she should be Queen Regent, who has something to prove to the world. She generally couldn’t be bothered with her husband. She was loud and forceful and not particularly religious. She grew up forgotten and ignored, never knowing what was to become of her.
Two very different women, who’s desires and goals were often complete opposites and sometimes even conflicted, and yet they were extremely close throughout their lives.”
“It appears that the Queens Margaret, during their Irish Sojourn, agreed that a marriage would occur between their children to create an alliance between their countries. We have several letters who’s lines would support this: ‘the birth of our Royal friendship,’ ‘that your child may be mine, and my child may be yours,’ and ‘that we may share a grandchild.’
Additionally, Prince Robert Stewart, Duke of Rothsay, the future King Robert IV of Scotland, would be betrothed to Princess Kathryn Tudor since his very birth.”
“So, I really don’t think Professor Anderson should have separated The Stewart Queenand The Other Margaret Stewart[1] into two separated books. There are entire chapters that are identical between the two books. The Irish Sojourn chapter, Robert and Kathryn’s chapter, Maeve and Arthur’s chapter, and the French Religion War chapter are all identical.
And I get that the Queens Margaret had separate lives, but Professor Anderson could at least edit the shared chapters to include more personalized information or something. It really feels like cheating.”
[1] Whether Margaret of Scotland spelled her name in the French way or not is somewhat debated.
On one hand we have Queen Margaret Stewart of England a woman who is Queen Regent and would like nothing more than to hand ruling off to her husband, who would like to devote her time to writing and her children. She was madly in love with her husband and was reticent, modest, and devotedly religious. She grew up surrounded by family and absolutely sure of her place in the world.
On the other is Queen Margaret of Scotland who is Queen Consort and who really feels—and an argument could be made that—she should be Queen Regent, who has something to prove to the world. She generally couldn’t be bothered with her husband. She was loud and forceful and not particularly religious. She grew up forgotten and ignored, never knowing what was to become of her.
Two very different women, who’s desires and goals were often complete opposites and sometimes even conflicted, and yet they were extremely close throughout their lives.”
Desiree Brandon, “The Queens Margaret”
“It appears that the Queens Margaret, during their Irish Sojourn, agreed that a marriage would occur between their children to create an alliance between their countries. We have several letters who’s lines would support this: ‘the birth of our Royal friendship,’ ‘that your child may be mine, and my child may be yours,’ and ‘that we may share a grandchild.’
Additionally, Prince Robert Stewart, Duke of Rothsay, the future King Robert IV of Scotland, would be betrothed to Princess Kathryn Tudor since his very birth.”
Richard MacArthur, “Robert of Scotland”
“So, I really don’t think Professor Anderson should have separated The Stewart Queenand The Other Margaret Stewart[1] into two separated books. There are entire chapters that are identical between the two books. The Irish Sojourn chapter, Robert and Kathryn’s chapter, Maeve and Arthur’s chapter, and the French Religion War chapter are all identical.
And I get that the Queens Margaret had separate lives, but Professor Anderson could at least edit the shared chapters to include more personalized information or something. It really feels like cheating.”
Hailey Lane, the definitive Tudor Reviewer
[1] Whether Margaret of Scotland spelled her name in the French way or not is somewhat debated.
Epilogue Four - English Tudor Kings Wiki Page
Thank you everyone who has voted for Henry Tudor, Heretic and Father of Kings in the 2020 Turtledoves - Best Early Modern Timelines category.
The wiki article is also attached as a PDF if that is easier for you to read.
The wiki article is also attached as a PDF if that is easier for you to read.
Attachments
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Wow! That puts it into perspective, doesn't it! They really did do quite well this time around! 
I mean Frances of Saxony. I get those two names mixed up all the time. While this England is quite a bit more liberal than OTL, it's not quite that liberal. Good catch
Wow! That puts it into perspective, doesn't it! They really did do quite well this time around!
I'm glad you like it. I'll try to get out the Wettin and FitzTudor wikipages out sometime in the next week or so. And I'll finally answer the 'What happened to the English Monarchy?' question, promise
My little bisexual heart was about die there, thanks for explaining!