Henry Tudor, Heretic and Father of Kings

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Cate13, Nov 4, 2018.

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  1. Threadmarks: Section One - 1502

    Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    “The English court held their collective breaths as both the Prince and Princess of Wales fell ill sometime during March of 1502, probably with the sweating sickness that was commonly found in England at the time. Prayers were said, doctors were summoned, and then early in April, both would recover.”
    A. E. Bell, “The Early Tudor Years”​


    “Riding high from the miracle that was his son and daughter-in-law’s survival, Henry VII turned his attention to his younger children. Having arranged for his heir’s marriage to one of the most eligible brides of Europe, Henry VII would accept no less for his three younger children.”
    Dr. Marella Howard, “The First Tudor King”​


    “Not much is known about the childhood of the man who would come to be known as the Greatest Prince in Christendom by some and the Great Heretic by others. Then Prince Henry Tudor, Duke of York, was his father’s spare and as such did not often appear in public. It is known that he was extremely close with his mother, Elizabeth of York.”
    Isaac Laab, “Henry Tudor, Heretic and Father of Kings”​




    Hello internet people! This is my first stab at an alternate history timeline. The difference is that Arthur Tudor survived. This snowballed Elizabeth of York’s survival because she and Henry VII didn’t try for another child. And her survival extended Henry VII’s life as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  2. Threadmarks: Section Two - 1503

    Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    “Early in the year 1503, the King of Navarre, John III of Albret died of what we now believe to be cancer. This triggered the series of events which eventually would bring the Tudor Spare to the forefront of European Politics.”
    Matheo Henrikson, “The 1500’s Was A Crazy Century, and It Was Mostly the Tudors’ Fault”​


    “…. I find myself not in need of a son by marriage, but a son of my own body.”
    Fragment of one of the letters exchanged between King Henry VII and Queen Catherine of Navarre​


    “Shortly after the death of John III, King Henry VII wrote to Queen Catherine of Navarre about the possibility of a betrothal between his son, Prince Henry Tudor, and Queen Catherine’s eldest daughter Anne of Navarre. The Princess Anne was a very eligible young lady: the heir of the many titles of her grandfather, Alain I of Albret, as well as the current heir of the Crown of Navarre. The Queen’s response was completely unexpected.

    Queen Catherine wrote back suggesting not a betrothal between Prince Henry and her eldest daughter, but a marriage between Prince Henry and Herself.”
    A. E. Bell, “The Early Tudor Years”​


    “The marriage of Queen Catherine of Navarre and Prince Henry Tudor is perhaps one of history’s more interesting anecdotes. The young Tudor Prince was barely a year older than Queen Catherine’s eldest daughter, and the Queen was only a few years younger than Prince Henry’s parents.

    For centuries scholars, histories, politicians, and intellectuals have argued the reasoning behind this particular union. Navarre gained an ally who committed to military assistance in the face of Aragon’s encroachment and a king that belonged to none of the factions of the Navarrese Court. King Henry VII gained further acknowledgment of the legitimacy of the Tudors. But these things weren’t exclusively found only in Navarre or England, either party could have found allies elsewhere. So, why did this marriage take place?

    It is of this author’s opinion, that the marriage occurred simply because King Henry VII was the first to offer a groom, albeit for Princess Anne. Queen Catherine must have been very aware of her mortality with her first husband’s death, and also very aware of her declining years of fertility. She needed to act quickly to secure the succession so that Navarre didn’t suffer the upheaval that occurs with a female heir for the second generation.

    In this dissertation I will…”
    “Prince Henry Tudor, King Father of Navarre, What Were They Thinking?” Thesis Project by doctoral candidate, Elijah Baker​


    “The young English Prince is fair of face and form and though his youth is evident, he comports himself with the dignity of one who has had it thoroughly instilled in them the proper behavior expected of a king.”
    Journal entry of a Navarrese Nobleman​
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
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  3. Icedaemon Well-Known Member

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    Jul 5, 2016
    This seems to be more than just another Tudor timeline. Interesting.
     
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  4. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Dec 9, 2012
    ally.

    Interesting route you're taking. Will see where this goes.
    Actually, in the 15th century, Navarre had several queens-regnant which sort of followed each other (punctuated by boys)
    Blanche I (daughter of Charles III)
    Charles (IV), Prince of Viana (son of Blanche)
    Blanche II (eldest daughter of Blanche I)
    Eleonore (youngest daughter of Blanche I)
    François Phoebe (eldest grandson of Eleonore)
    Catherine (sister to François Phoebe)

    So, it wasn't so much a second generation as almost the norm. Didn't make foreign relations any easier - especially with Aragon (not Castile, who had no interest in Navarre IIRC) - but it wasn't unheard of.
     
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  5. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    Thanks, spelling is my mortal enemy.

    While there were several Queens of Navarre, Catherine’s succeeding her brother was challenged by her Uncle, and there was a Civil War at the beginning of her reign, which I figured would shape how she sees female succession.
     
  6. Madhav Deval Well-Known Member

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    Jul 3, 2018
    Question- would Henry be able to be a heretic without reprisal ittl. Navarres right in the middle of two major catholic powers and they wouldn’t take it well at all. After all it’s not quite as easily defensible as the island fortress of England . I’m interested to see how he has the freedom to pursue this course
     
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  7. The_Last_Plantagenet Well-Known Member

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    Why would he need a divorce ITTL? The reason for the Anglican split was because Henry VIII's need for a divorce, he wasn't predestined to split from Rome
     
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  8. BlueFlowwer Well-Known Member

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    Feb 12, 2017
    I'm not sure that allying with Navarre is smart with a surviving Catherine. Ferdinand won't take that well. And I'm not sure if it's smart to wed a 11?? years old prince to a adult woman. it's kind of weird. Not the kind of alliance Henry will be after.
     
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  9. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    Yeah, the initial marriage between Catherine of Navarre and Henry Tudor is totally a stretch. But since I wanted to play with the reformation, and OTL Navarre was Protestant.
     
  10. BlueFlowwer Well-Known Member

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    Feb 12, 2017
    Well, if you can find a way to make it, I'll be watching this TL.
     
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  11. mrmandias Regent

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    Pretty intriguing so far. Yeah, the marriage is a stretch, but you get one unlikely thing per TL.
     
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  12. Threadmarks: Section Three - 1503

    Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    “As busy as King Henry VII was early in 1503 cramming in the years of lessons in statecraft that Prince Arthur got but Prince Henry missed out on and then sending Prince Henry to Navarre, he made time to oversee the marriage of Princess Margaret to James IV of Scotland. Queen Elizabeth would accompany now Queen Margaret north and spend several months assuring that her eldest daughter settled in her new home. While Queen Elizabeth would return to England and spend much of the rest of her life there, she would return frequently to Scotland, especially after the death of King James IV. It is believed that much of her daughter’s excess was curbed by the presence of Queen Elizabeth.”
    Dr. Marella Howard, “The First Tudor King”​


    “…. the English Queen continues to call for her mother, more lords would object, if not that the presence of the Queen Elizabeth is a great boon to the behavior of the English Queen.”
    Fragment of a letter to an unknown nobleman from one of Queen Margaret’s ladies​


    “1503 was a roller-coaster year for the Tudor family. The beginning of the year saw the marriages of Princess Margaret to King James IV and Prince Henry to Queen Catherine bringing to number of Tudor monarchs to three.

    The end of the year saw the death of the young Prince Hal, son of Prince Arthur and Princes Catherine, at the tender age of three. The death was a great blow to Princess Catherine and is believed to have been what sent her into early labor. Prince Arthur and Princess Catherine’s second child, Prince Arthur, would not survive the trauma of his early birth and would die the day after he was born.”
    Matheo Henrikson, “The 1500’s Was A Crazy Century, and It Was Mostly the Tudors’ Fault”​
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  13. Threadmarks: Section Four - 1504

    Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    “Several letters and journals indicate that the Navarrese Court was charmed by their new young king. King Henry, by all records, was a bright and cheerful teenager. While grossly unprepared for his role as king, this wasn’t readily apparent because little to no responsibly was given to the young King at first. It was only after the birth of their first son and as King Henry made important friends, that Queen Catherine began to allow King Henry to wield power as King of Navarre.”
    A. E. Bell, “The Early Tudor Years” ​


    “It is thought that is it was here, in the quiet few months of his marriage with few friends and in a strange land, that Henry Tudor began to question the strongly held religious beliefs of the day. He was mostly left to his own devices. Perhaps in these months of reflection, Prince Henry Tudor sought God in his quiet secluded rooms.”
    Isaac Laab, “Henry Tudor, Heretic and Father of Kings”​


    “The relationship between Prince Henry Tudor [1] and his son Henri Tudor, King of Navarre is perhaps the strongest and longest lasting relationship Prince Henry Tudor would have. Only thirteen years old at his birth, Prince Henry Tudor doted on his eldest son. We have multitude of records of Prince Henry carrying his young son around and taking him to court functions, one courtier commented that Prince Henry made a fine nursemaid.

    There is a school of thought that this was a ploy by Prince Henry to bolster his situation at court by reminding everyone of his position as the father of the heir. But, other records illustrate that Prince Henry’s attentiveness as a father didn’t end when the public eye did. Prince Henry personally choose his son’s nurses and tutors and would often write them requesting reports and instructing them on the care of his son. In modern vernacular, a helicopter parent.”
    Rachel Rowell, “Father of the Reawakening, and a Good Father” ​

    [1] While Prince Henry was King of Navarre for 14 years, he was known as Prince Henry for a much larger portion of his life and is the name by which he is most commonly known. It is by this title he will be referenced in this tome.


    “…. I find my new father by turns bright and cheerful and then solemn and still. I don’t believe I have ever met a more lonely person.”
    Journal of Princess Anne of Navarre, she died shortly after writing this​
     
  14. BlueFlowwer Well-Known Member

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    Feb 12, 2017
    Can I just say that a 13 year old Henry is way to young to become a father? It's kind of...icky?
     
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  15. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, it wasn’t my first choice, but after finagaling around a bit, that’s where it ended up. And it wasn’t unheard of, his grandmother Margaret Beaufort gave birth at 13.
     
  16. BlueFlowwer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you got a point, but still...ewww.
     
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  17. kasumigenx Well-Known Member

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    May 26, 2009
    If we give Anne of Brittany a son, Anne of Navarre is married off to OTL Francis I..
     
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  18. isabella Well-Known Member

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    James VI? Margaret’s husband was James IV of Scotland (and James VI her great grandson, the son of Mary Stuart who would become James I of England)
     
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  19. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    Thanks for catching that! I fixed it
     
  20. Threadmarks: Section Five - 1510ish

    Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    “Princess Margaret Tudor, eldest daughter of Prince Arthur and Princess Catherine, was born a mere month after the death of her great-grandmother Margaret Beaufort. It was for her that the young princess was named, at the insistence of her royal grandfather. She would be followed by a brother, Prince Henry Tudor, in 1509 who would live only hours and another brother also named Prince Henry Tudor, in 1511 who would live only a month.

    At the age of 8, shortly after the birth of her sister Princess Mary, Princess Margaret would be betrothed to her cousin Prince Francis Tudor, second son of her uncle King Henry II Tudor of Navarre, by her grandfather King Henry VII Tudor. This ensured that if she remained her parent’s only heir, the thrown of England would remain with the Tudors.

    The betrothal was protested by Princess Catherine of Wales who feared Prince Francis might share of his father’s religious views. “
    A. E. Bell, “The Early Tudor Years” ​


    “As King Henry VII Tudor dealt with issues of succession, he also arranged the betrothal of the elder Princess Mary. King Henry VII had spent the last five or so years suggesting a betrothal to one monarch, backing out and suggesting a different betrothal to a different monarch. It was at the suggestion of Princess Catherine to her sister Maria of Aragon, that King Manuel I of Portugal would write to King Henry VII about his youngest daughter.

    Princess Mary, daughter of King Henry VII and Queen Elizabeth, not to be confused with Princess Mary, daughter of King Arthur and Queen Catherine, is known to have hotly protested her betrothal to Prince Jon Avis, heir to the crown of Portugal; the young prince was six years younger than her. But, her father had spoken, and people did not argue with King Henry VII.”
    Dr. Marella Howard, “The First Tudor King”​
     
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