I've always liked the idea of the hero of one story being the villain in another, and that kinda shaped Eleonore Sophie. Glad you liked it!
Henry Tudor, Heretic and Father of Kings
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Thank you for the clarification, I guess I wasn't looking good enough. Ack.
No worries! There are a lot of updates. It's Epilogue Nineteen if you haven't found it.
Epilogue - Sneak Peak
AN: So, I'm done with the exiled royals epilogues and I'm bouncing back to just after Henry's death. Here's a sneak peak. Hopefully telling ya'll that I'm going to write will make me actually write.
<MARY DOUGHERTY walks outside of Iredale Palace>
MARY DOUGHERTY: My Grandmother once said, referring to how our ancestors settled the area and how many of our cousins still live nearby, that “You couldn’t swing a dead cat without hitting a Dougherty.”
MARY DOUGHERTY: Now why a dead cat is required I never did figure out, but otherwise the 1500s English Court might have been quite like my hometown. Though instead of Doughertys, it would have been Tudors.
<MARY DOUGHERTY stops and turns toward the camera>
MARY DOUGHERTY: Too often when we think of House Tudor we think of something almost like a modern corporation. But they were also a family—siblings, cousins, aunts, and uncles—all working together and working at odds with each other. They must have had jokes and grudges, favorite relatives and least favorite relatives.
MARY DOUGHERTY: So today we are going to take a look at the Tudor family.
<MARY DOUGHERTY walks outside of Iredale Palace>
MARY DOUGHERTY: My Grandmother once said, referring to how our ancestors settled the area and how many of our cousins still live nearby, that “You couldn’t swing a dead cat without hitting a Dougherty.”
MARY DOUGHERTY: Now why a dead cat is required I never did figure out, but otherwise the 1500s English Court might have been quite like my hometown. Though instead of Doughertys, it would have been Tudors.
<MARY DOUGHERTY stops and turns toward the camera>
MARY DOUGHERTY: Too often when we think of House Tudor we think of something almost like a modern corporation. But they were also a family—siblings, cousins, aunts, and uncles—all working together and working at odds with each other. They must have had jokes and grudges, favorite relatives and least favorite relatives.
MARY DOUGHERTY: So today we are going to take a look at the Tudor family.
Selections from the documentary The Tudor Family
Yeah, I was a bit confused the first time I heard it, but it's apparently a thing.
Huh, that's a new phrase I learnt off. I guess you do learn something new everyday
I'm not sure why a dead cat specifically. I wonder if it's in any way related to the phrase 'not enough room to swing a cat,' which seems to have been a reference to a cat-of-nine-tails, a torture device used to punish sailors.
Epilogue Thirty - Couch Surfing
<MARY DOUGHERTY sits in a café>
MARY DOUGHERTY: Does your family have a have a couch surfing relative? You know the one, down on their luck and needs a place to stay? I think most families do. And I think you can learn a lot about a family by how they treat their couch surfer.
MARY DOUGHERTY: Well, the Tudors had three couch surfers in the late 1500s: Francis Tudor, Duke of Chartes; and Madelyn Tudor with her young son Francis de Loraine.
<The screen now shows actors portraying Francis Tudor, Madelyn Tudor, and Francis de Loraine>
MARY DOUGHERTY: Now, they had lost their homes in France due to religion, France had gone from tolerant of awakeners to…
<Camera focuses on a now standing MARY DOUGHERTY to emphasize the pause>
MARY DOUGHERTY: not tolerant. And in Madelyn’s case, she not only lost her home but also custody of her two older children. [1]
<The screen shows two actors presumably portraying Madeleine de Lorraine and Louis de Lorraine>
MARY DOUGHERTY: But jokes on Madelyn’s ex, the kids became avid awakeners.
<MARY DOUGHERTY begins walking down the street>
MARY DOUGHERTY: But for the next fifteen years while France wasn’t safe for Awakeners, pretty much every Tudor had a couch for these three to crash on.
MARY DOUGHERTY: Francis Tudor bounced around, visiting relatives in Navarre, Hesse-Kassel, Cleves, Denmark, and England. He very rapidly became the ‘cool’ uncle of the next generation of Tudors.
MARY DOUGHERTY: Madelyn Tudor and her son primarily resided with her sister Cecily the Duchess of Buckingham. And when Madelyn’s husband tried to gain custody of little Francis de Lorraine, he found the way blocked by Queen Kathryn Tudor.
<The screen shows an actress portraying Kathryn Tudor at a writing desk>
MARY DOUGHERTY: It’s fascinating how the Tudors, spread out over practically the entirety of Europe….
“Johan Tudor, Duke of Julich-Cleves-Berg, said of his brother Francis, “He is father writ smoll.” [1] And this is not a bad summation of Francis Tudor, Duke of Chartes: he was well traveled, a devoted Awakener, a prolific lyricist, and a family man. While Francis Tudor would never marry—the Duchy of Chartes would be inherited by his nephew and namesake, Francis de Lorraine—he was devoted to his many nieces and nephews.
Francis Tudor’s travels would be one of the many ties that allowed the expanded Tudor family to connect.”
[1] Based on skeletal evidence Francis Tudor was about four inches shorter than Prince Henry, so around 5’ 10”. Not bad, but most of the Tudor men where 6’ or taller.
“While Cecily and Madelyn Tudor, daughters of Prince Henry by his fifth wife Rene of France, quarreled sometime in their young, (possibly over Edward Stafford who is recorded as a ‘dear friend of young Madelyn’ but married Cecily), they would reconcile shortly after the death of Prince Henry.
Then when Madelyn faced growing persecution in France for her faith, Cecily invited Madelyn to Brecon Castle, first for a visit, and then to stay. There Madelyn’s last child, Francis de Lorraine, was born.”
“While Madelyn was staying with Cecily, Cecily Tudor would write several poems mocking Madelyn’s ex-husband. [1] Everything from Charles de Lorraine’s fashion to eating habits is mocked in a cutting humorous style. These poems continue to have an effect centuries later, as several phrases from these poems are commonly found in the modern ‘break-up song.’
While these poems were never published, they were sent to various Tudor relatives and so survived that way.”
[1] Ex-husband is a misnomer. Charles de Lorraine never sought an annulment or a divorce.
“.. shall remain with his mother, my aunt. My dearest grandfather faught wars for family. Thinkest that I will do any less?”
Fragment of a letter from Kathryn Tudor to Charles de Lorraine regarding the custody of Francis de Lorraine. After this letter Charles de Lorraine wouldn’t push the issue again.
MARY DOUGHERTY: Does your family have a have a couch surfing relative? You know the one, down on their luck and needs a place to stay? I think most families do. And I think you can learn a lot about a family by how they treat their couch surfer.
MARY DOUGHERTY: Well, the Tudors had three couch surfers in the late 1500s: Francis Tudor, Duke of Chartes; and Madelyn Tudor with her young son Francis de Loraine.
<The screen now shows actors portraying Francis Tudor, Madelyn Tudor, and Francis de Loraine>
MARY DOUGHERTY: Now, they had lost their homes in France due to religion, France had gone from tolerant of awakeners to…
<Camera focuses on a now standing MARY DOUGHERTY to emphasize the pause>
MARY DOUGHERTY: not tolerant. And in Madelyn’s case, she not only lost her home but also custody of her two older children. [1]
<The screen shows two actors presumably portraying Madeleine de Lorraine and Louis de Lorraine>
MARY DOUGHERTY: But jokes on Madelyn’s ex, the kids became avid awakeners.
<MARY DOUGHERTY begins walking down the street>
MARY DOUGHERTY: But for the next fifteen years while France wasn’t safe for Awakeners, pretty much every Tudor had a couch for these three to crash on.
MARY DOUGHERTY: Francis Tudor bounced around, visiting relatives in Navarre, Hesse-Kassel, Cleves, Denmark, and England. He very rapidly became the ‘cool’ uncle of the next generation of Tudors.
MARY DOUGHERTY: Madelyn Tudor and her son primarily resided with her sister Cecily the Duchess of Buckingham. And when Madelyn’s husband tried to gain custody of little Francis de Lorraine, he found the way blocked by Queen Kathryn Tudor.
<The screen shows an actress portraying Kathryn Tudor at a writing desk>
MARY DOUGHERTY: It’s fascinating how the Tudors, spread out over practically the entirety of Europe….
Selections from the documentary The Tudor Family
“Johan Tudor, Duke of Julich-Cleves-Berg, said of his brother Francis, “He is father writ smoll.” [1] And this is not a bad summation of Francis Tudor, Duke of Chartes: he was well traveled, a devoted Awakener, a prolific lyricist, and a family man. While Francis Tudor would never marry—the Duchy of Chartes would be inherited by his nephew and namesake, Francis de Lorraine—he was devoted to his many nieces and nephews.
Francis Tudor’s travels would be one of the many ties that allowed the expanded Tudor family to connect.”
Tammie Waltherson, “For the Tudors’ It’s All About Family”
[1] Based on skeletal evidence Francis Tudor was about four inches shorter than Prince Henry, so around 5’ 10”. Not bad, but most of the Tudor men where 6’ or taller.
“While Cecily and Madelyn Tudor, daughters of Prince Henry by his fifth wife Rene of France, quarreled sometime in their young, (possibly over Edward Stafford who is recorded as a ‘dear friend of young Madelyn’ but married Cecily), they would reconcile shortly after the death of Prince Henry.
Then when Madelyn faced growing persecution in France for her faith, Cecily invited Madelyn to Brecon Castle, first for a visit, and then to stay. There Madelyn’s last child, Francis de Lorraine, was born.”
Nancy Raymond, “Sisters”
“While Madelyn was staying with Cecily, Cecily Tudor would write several poems mocking Madelyn’s ex-husband. [1] Everything from Charles de Lorraine’s fashion to eating habits is mocked in a cutting humorous style. These poems continue to have an effect centuries later, as several phrases from these poems are commonly found in the modern ‘break-up song.’
While these poems were never published, they were sent to various Tudor relatives and so survived that way.”
Bennet Crow, “Effects of Renaissance Literature on Modern Pop Music”
[1] Ex-husband is a misnomer. Charles de Lorraine never sought an annulment or a divorce.
“.. shall remain with his mother, my aunt. My dearest grandfather faught wars for family. Thinkest that I will do any less?”
Fragment of a letter from Kathryn Tudor to Charles de Lorraine regarding the custody of Francis de Lorraine. After this letter Charles de Lorraine wouldn’t push the issue again.
For the first part of his life, yes. But, he doesn’t age as well as Prince Henry and once he starts slowing down he goes back to Chartes and doesn’t travel near as much.
Epilogue Thirty-One - Germany
MARY DOUGHERTY: So, normally when someone runs into a person who has the same surname as them, there might be a chuckle or a quick attempt to find a relative in common. But here in the DS [1], and if your surname is Tudor, the reaction is quite different.
<MARY DOUGHERTY walks through the streets of what looks like a German town>
MARY DOUGHERTY: The stories I’d been told about being Tudor in the DS were a little out there, so I brough my brother-in-law, Oliver Tudor, along for testing purposes. We sent him out onto the streets of Offenbach, he’d introduce himself and ask for directions. And every single time he ran into another Tudor, this happened:
<Montage of a man, presumably Oliver Tudor, being hugged by complete strangers>
MARY DOUGHERTY: Oliver was invited out to drinks, out for coffee, to birthday parties, three christenings, and was instructed by a very scary grandmother to come back for Weihnachtstag, which is, apparently, Christmas.
<Back to MARY DOUGHERTY walking the street>
MARY DOUGHERTY: So what is it, that makes being a Tudor in DS so different? Where does this sense of family come from? It can be traced back to the first German Tudor, Johan Tudor of Julich-Cleves-Berg.”
[1] For Deutscher Staat
“Johan of Julich-Cleves-Berg had six legitimate sons, four illegitimate sons, [1] and at least fifty grandsons. Even with such a large family, Johan made every effort to be a present father and grandfather. He instilled in his son and grandsons a sense of family that even rivaled that of the Habsburgs.
This can be seen in the reactions to inheritance. At Johan’s death the mammoth fortune that he inherited from his uncle was split between his sons, and in the next generation it was split even further. But even, as the sons of Johan transitioned to humbler lifestyles we have no record of backbiting, infighting, or any of the other common responses to German inheritance in that day and age.”
[1] After his wife’s death, Marie Elisabeth’s death, Johan had a mistress from a minor merchant family.
<MARY DOUGHERTY walks through a graveyard, many of the tombstones have Tudor as the surname>
MARY DOUGHERTY: Tudor is the most common surname currently found in the DS. Which makes sense. Johan Tudor was extremely prolific, and his sons were equally prolific. When paired with Karl, you get a name so common it has become synonymous with the hypothetical “everyman.”
<MARY DOUGHERTY stops and faces the camera>
MARY DOUGHERTY: But why “Karl”? Wouldn’t Johan be more common?
MARY DOUGHERTY: The prevalence of Karl can be traced back to Charles Tudor, uncle of Johan Tudor and the one who raised him. This bond between brothers, or more analogous to parent and child, inspired Johan Tudor to name three of his sons Karl. Due to Johan Tudor’s influence, 15 of his grandsons were named Karl.
<MARY DOUGHERTY starts walking again>
MARY DOUGHERTY: Johan’s wish to remember his brother made Karl Tudor the single most common name in Germany. That’s not a bad tribute.
<MARY DOUGHERTY walks through the streets of what looks like a German town>
MARY DOUGHERTY: The stories I’d been told about being Tudor in the DS were a little out there, so I brough my brother-in-law, Oliver Tudor, along for testing purposes. We sent him out onto the streets of Offenbach, he’d introduce himself and ask for directions. And every single time he ran into another Tudor, this happened:
<Montage of a man, presumably Oliver Tudor, being hugged by complete strangers>
MARY DOUGHERTY: Oliver was invited out to drinks, out for coffee, to birthday parties, three christenings, and was instructed by a very scary grandmother to come back for Weihnachtstag, which is, apparently, Christmas.
<Back to MARY DOUGHERTY walking the street>
MARY DOUGHERTY: So what is it, that makes being a Tudor in DS so different? Where does this sense of family come from? It can be traced back to the first German Tudor, Johan Tudor of Julich-Cleves-Berg.”
Selections from the documentary The Tudor Family
[1] For Deutscher Staat
“Johan of Julich-Cleves-Berg had six legitimate sons, four illegitimate sons, [1] and at least fifty grandsons. Even with such a large family, Johan made every effort to be a present father and grandfather. He instilled in his son and grandsons a sense of family that even rivaled that of the Habsburgs.
This can be seen in the reactions to inheritance. At Johan’s death the mammoth fortune that he inherited from his uncle was split between his sons, and in the next generation it was split even further. But even, as the sons of Johan transitioned to humbler lifestyles we have no record of backbiting, infighting, or any of the other common responses to German inheritance in that day and age.”
Karl Tudor, “Brother’s All”
[1] After his wife’s death, Marie Elisabeth’s death, Johan had a mistress from a minor merchant family.
<MARY DOUGHERTY walks through a graveyard, many of the tombstones have Tudor as the surname>
MARY DOUGHERTY: Tudor is the most common surname currently found in the DS. Which makes sense. Johan Tudor was extremely prolific, and his sons were equally prolific. When paired with Karl, you get a name so common it has become synonymous with the hypothetical “everyman.”
<MARY DOUGHERTY stops and faces the camera>
MARY DOUGHERTY: But why “Karl”? Wouldn’t Johan be more common?
MARY DOUGHERTY: The prevalence of Karl can be traced back to Charles Tudor, uncle of Johan Tudor and the one who raised him. This bond between brothers, or more analogous to parent and child, inspired Johan Tudor to name three of his sons Karl. Due to Johan Tudor’s influence, 15 of his grandsons were named Karl.
<MARY DOUGHERTY starts walking again>
MARY DOUGHERTY: Johan’s wish to remember his brother made Karl Tudor the single most common name in Germany. That’s not a bad tribute.
Selections from the documentary The Tudor Family