Fascist USA after Great Depression, what would it take?
- Thread starter Gll25
- Start date
thorr97
Banned
Well, we already had a president who seized all the nation's gold, tried making the Supreme Court into a rubber stamp for his policies, and who happily and without trial put over a hundred thousand Americans into concentration camps.
So, not much would have to change, actually...
So, not much would have to change, actually...
Because FDR had a paramilitary group blindly supporting him right? Or we had him advocating outright for one group over all others? Oh we didn't? Don't compare him to fascists then.
Comparing roosevelt to fascism is insanity, you are allowed to think whatever you want but I won't even indulge it
In my opinion, it'd require a set of circumstances similar to those in Nazi Germany. Financial oblivion leading to inflation due to an even poorer response than IOTL, meaning that working-class people would become disenfranchised from a political elite. A prominent hard-right southern politician could decry Hoover's actions as unbefitting of the nation, and either stand as a Republican candidate, or as an independent candidate for a third party, somehow managing to overturn the vote for FDR using racial scaremongering as buffer to disguise the New Deal as a deflection. In the session of congress following this, Congress could reject the new President's economic proposals as too extreme, leading to him standing candidates in the mid-term elections to wipe out more moderate or liberal Congressmen. Following this, the President would take aim at institutions such as the Supreme Court and the Constitution, accusing them of destabilising the political situation and preventing a real solution to the Depression, swaying the American people against these institutions, and allowing the President to extend the number of Supreme Court judges so that the number of conservative judges outweigh liberal judges. The President would then use this to overturn/reform the Constitution, effectively allowing him to use it as an Enabling Act. The Second Amendment would be used to form militia against the tyrannical forces trying to act against the government's will in an altered rendition, thus leaving us with a fascist President, a Congress with very little power, a paper-thin Constitution, and the President's personal army helping to suppress any dissent.
Warren Harding does not die, and runs again in 1924, despite being hit by a series of scandals. He wins, but his victory is much weaker than Coolidge's OTL landslide. Meanwhile, butterflies prevent the D.C. Stephenson scandal from ever appearing, and the KKK continues to grow in influence. Further scandals erupt in Harding's second term, forcing him to resign midway through. Al Smith manages to narrowly win in 1928, beating a Republican Party hit by so many scandals and political infighting. President Smith then faces the Depression, and tries a series of half-measures, akin to Hoover. These fail to alleviate the situation, and the country snaps back to the early 1920s Republican dominance, with huge waves wrecking the Democrats in 1930 and 1932. Smith's Catholicism leads to a huge surge in KKK activity, with the Klan now under the full control of Stephenson seizing control of many Southern Democratic Parties and Republican state parties across the country. Conservative Republican Senator James Eli Watson wins 1932 in a landslide, and decides to return to the conservatism of the 1920s rather than the moderate Progressivism of the failed Smith administration. This fails to help the economy, and Watson soon finds himself out of touch with the American people.
The 1934 midterms see a massive revolt of the left against two parties which have failed the American workers. The Farmer-Labor Party spreads from Minnesota, while the Progressive breakaway of the LaFollettes gains support outside of Wisconsin. Meanwhile in the South, populist Huey Long is seen by many as the one man capable of standing up to the KKK, and begins to tear the Democrats apart. In 1936, a terribly unpopular Watson is renominated due to Stephenson's support, leading to a revolt of Progressive Republicans. The Democratic Party is also torn apart, with conservatives backing Garner and leftists backing Long. The left-wing breakaways unite under charismatic and popular Minnesota governor Floyd Olson, who chooses Long as his running mate to unite north and south. At the beginning of the campaign, Olson is seen by many as the one man who can save America, and enjoys a huge lead against a divided opposition.
Within weeks of being nominated Olson dies of cancer.
The left faction, suddenly without its leader, chooses Huey Long to be its new standard-bearer. Long wins in a landslide, but without clear majorities in Congress loyal to him. His radical and ill thought out proposals soon stall in the legislature, so he begins to enact a series of increasingly controversial executive orders. When the courts strike down his orders, Long defies them, knowing that he has enough loyalists in the Senate to prevent himself from getting removed from office. Terrified of an increasingly radical, obviously incompetent president who is blatantly defying the Constitution, several big businesses join a conspiracy to remove Long from office. Led by General George Van Horn Moseley and backed by the KKK, they carry out a coup. Long is killed, his administration and supporters in Congress arrested for treason, and Moseley takes control during a state of emergency. When communist-lead unions erupt in open revolt, businesses continue to back Moseley as he crushes communism and saves capitalism in America.
Too late to those same businessmen realize that now that opposition from the far-left has been crushed, Moseley has the tools to destroy all opposition. Too late does D.C. Stephenson realize that Moseley sees him as a threat; his sexual crimes are exposed and he is executed, with the KKK being dissolved, its members instead joining the new National Police Force or the military directly. Moseley outlaws all civil rights organizations, with the ACLU and NAACP being declared criminals. Southern-style segregation soon begins to be introduced across the nation, as black people are disenfranchised country-wide. Prohibition is escalated, with a reign of terror carried out against the Catholic Italian and Irish communities, and restrictions getting enacted against marijuana as well. A moralist crackdown against homosexuals, feminists, atheists, and other minorities begins. But the minority group most afraid in the U.S. is the Jewish community, as Supreme General Moseley meets repeatedly with his newfound ally, Adolf Hitler, with whom he shares many views and opinions...
The 1934 midterms see a massive revolt of the left against two parties which have failed the American workers. The Farmer-Labor Party spreads from Minnesota, while the Progressive breakaway of the LaFollettes gains support outside of Wisconsin. Meanwhile in the South, populist Huey Long is seen by many as the one man capable of standing up to the KKK, and begins to tear the Democrats apart. In 1936, a terribly unpopular Watson is renominated due to Stephenson's support, leading to a revolt of Progressive Republicans. The Democratic Party is also torn apart, with conservatives backing Garner and leftists backing Long. The left-wing breakaways unite under charismatic and popular Minnesota governor Floyd Olson, who chooses Long as his running mate to unite north and south. At the beginning of the campaign, Olson is seen by many as the one man who can save America, and enjoys a huge lead against a divided opposition.
Within weeks of being nominated Olson dies of cancer.
The left faction, suddenly without its leader, chooses Huey Long to be its new standard-bearer. Long wins in a landslide, but without clear majorities in Congress loyal to him. His radical and ill thought out proposals soon stall in the legislature, so he begins to enact a series of increasingly controversial executive orders. When the courts strike down his orders, Long defies them, knowing that he has enough loyalists in the Senate to prevent himself from getting removed from office. Terrified of an increasingly radical, obviously incompetent president who is blatantly defying the Constitution, several big businesses join a conspiracy to remove Long from office. Led by General George Van Horn Moseley and backed by the KKK, they carry out a coup. Long is killed, his administration and supporters in Congress arrested for treason, and Moseley takes control during a state of emergency. When communist-lead unions erupt in open revolt, businesses continue to back Moseley as he crushes communism and saves capitalism in America.
Too late to those same businessmen realize that now that opposition from the far-left has been crushed, Moseley has the tools to destroy all opposition. Too late does D.C. Stephenson realize that Moseley sees him as a threat; his sexual crimes are exposed and he is executed, with the KKK being dissolved, its members instead joining the new National Police Force or the military directly. Moseley outlaws all civil rights organizations, with the ACLU and NAACP being declared criminals. Southern-style segregation soon begins to be introduced across the nation, as black people are disenfranchised country-wide. Prohibition is escalated, with a reign of terror carried out against the Catholic Italian and Irish communities, and restrictions getting enacted against marijuana as well. A moralist crackdown against homosexuals, feminists, atheists, and other minorities begins. But the minority group most afraid in the U.S. is the Jewish community, as Supreme General Moseley meets repeatedly with his newfound ally, Adolf Hitler, with whom he shares many views and opinions...
Executive Order 6102 was meant to give the federal reserve breathing room, since gold became hoarded b/c of the complete lack of certainty in the markets, causing the Fed to run out of its ability to to increase the monetary supply. If you get your news exclusively through chain emails, you've probably read the federal government 'seized' gold. That wasn't the case. The US obtained most of the needed gold for liquidity through bank failures w/ unclaimed safe deposit boxes and acquisitions following criminal prosecution for things like tax evasion. Also, he issued the executive order through legal means, completely within his authority. I get why some people who think gold is some sacred pure currency and are mad he started the US on the path off the gold standard, but it's hardly evidence of fascism.
Court stacking was a mess, and it follows the trend of second term Presidents overreaching, and FDR failed badly. However, tried all of this through the normal legislative process, and when the language got stripped out of the reform bill, he still signed it into law and accepted defeat. He didn't say this showed democracy was a weak institution, or claim that authoritarianism was needed. He ultimately got the court he wanted, but that was through judicial retirements-- being in office 12 years can be useful.
Not going to defend Japanese internment. Forever linked to FDR. However, in the context of evidence of fascism, even that went to through the normal legal process, and in Korematsu v. United States, the court brought one of its most shameful decisions forward. Horrible? Yes. Evidence of FDR fascism? No.
At no point did FDR leave the normal democratic framework that runs counter to the basic ideology of fascism.
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Yeah, I'd read that thread, this is fascinating and original. Damn good idea!
Have I ever mentioned how terrifying your imagination is sometimes.
Emperor Julian has a knack for making interwar American politics interesting, in the Chinese sense.
You think my imagination is terrifying? You don't have to live with it in your head!
I'm kind of morbidly curious how WW2 plays out in this scenario.
With Fascism in America I can see all remaining support for appeasement going out the window and maybe even a successful alliance between Britain, France and the Soviet Union?
Might Britain and France might decide to throw their full support behind the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War to prevent France being encircled by Fascism?
How would the anti-Catholic nature of American Fascism affect relations with Italy and other Clerical Fascists like Austria? Could the allies drive a wedge between Italy/Austria and Germany, there were certainly tensions between them before hand, or might the Italian Fascists use the opportunity to purge the influence of the Church?
Would the Axis powers continue to back Japan as an anti-Communist ally in the East or might they switch to China? Originally Germany hedged their bets between them before settling on Japan whilst the US, who are now their allies, had close relations with China.
How, if at all, does WW2 end and what sort of Cold War are we looking at?
If the US allies to Nazi Germany I think Japan would have to join the Allies because they are going to run into America. Probably the war is U.K., France, USSR, Chinese Communists, and Japan vs USA, Germany, Italy, KMT China
Repealling the 14 & 13 amendments will be the icing of the, cake...
BigBlueBox
Banned
That sounds cool. But to me, it would be more interesting if the coup fails and Long uses it as a justification to launch a brutal crackdown on his opponents and nationalize big business. He can then form a personal militia completely loyal to him under the excuse that the military is untrustworthy. There's some more stuff he could do too. Maybe J. Edgar Hoover dies while "cleaning his gun" and Long replaces him with a loyalist, while using Hoover's files for blackmail.
Edit: Quoted wrong post.
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The question I think would quickly become "which amendments won't be repealed?" The 11th and 12th, I suppose. The 18th. Maybe the 17th.
No joke I was going to basically write a TL where President Long crushed a coup and used it to seize power, but then I felt it would be read too much as a commentary on current political events.
Didn't Long hate big business? If anything I'd see Long has an enlightened despot.
George Van Horn Moseley or William H Murray would be better candidates for a fascist America IMHO?
George Van Horn Moseley or William H Murray would be better candidates for a fascist America IMHO?