Really not that big a reduction in crew. Officers Pilot, Co Pilot, Navigator/Bombider, necessary enlisted flight crew: Flight Engineet and Radio opetator. Only crew left 2 waist guners and bow gunner
Eisenhower in the Pacific: Part 1 The Shoestring Warriors of Luzon
- Thread starter galveston bay
- Start date
Really not that big a reduction in crew. Officers Pilot, Co Pilot, Navigator/Bombider, necessary enlisted flight crew: Flight Engineet and Radio opetator. Only crew left 2 waist guners and bow gunner
And if you're landing the pby in the water, you're going to want your bow gunner, since he doubles as the bowhook. Although I suppose you could make the navigator do it.
makes up for the fact that the navigator won't have any bombing to do on that trip
I figured about 10 passengers by removing the 2 gunners and their guns and ammunition, and other weight saving measures based on the OTL evacuation of the nurses from Luzon (22 Army and 1 Navy nurse) using 2 PBYs
Remember the bomb load is between 1,000 and 4,000 pounds depending on the mission, so even in an early model, losing the bomb load and gunners gives you easily 9 passengers, without losing the .50 cal, each gun and ammo is another person. So with waist guns that's 11, and you still have the bow ,30 or.50 mg.
Any extra space and weight would be vital cargo, principally important papers and maybe an extra passenger or two if they are light. Inbound it would be almost always vital cargo, such as medical supplies, electronic parts, fuses etc and while that is not a lot of cargo (only a couple of tons) it is a useful trickle. It also allows for officer couriers such as the fictional Lieutenant McCoy (The Corps series)
The C39s (DC2) C47s (DC3) and LB30s of course can carry double or more that number of passengers but only fly in and out of Cebu aside from really urgent cargo and evacuations, while the C45 (Beechcraft 18) can carry 6 passengers or 4 stretchers and a nurse/medic or about a half ton of cargo from Cebu to Bataan and back without refueling. The C39s would be made into medical evacuation aircraft as needed as they are relatively expendable compared to the C47s.
So that is roughly how I came up with the evacuation numbers.
During the evacuation of Singapore (and later Java) there were a number of Allied military and civilian transport aircraft (DC2s, DC3s, some old Trimotors plus a variety of various flying boats) that pitched in as well for those operations.
In OTL a number of them were shot down during a Japanese air raid in the final evacuation of Java, resulting in heavy casualties to passengers and crew. Not yet in TTL, but it is a possibility at any time.
Last edited:
That would be a reason to include one or two PBYs with full crews and guns, they could still carry an additional 6 people . During the war Lifeguard duty PBYs could pick up 8 to 10 aircrew from thevwater.
Japanese pilot Saburō Sakai mentioned that he encountered a Dutch DC-3 over Java and tried to communicate to the pilot to follow him to an airfield. When he got closer he saw that the passengers were women and children and allowed the plane to escape. He never mentioned it in his reports. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saburō_Sakai#Southeast_Asia
In other news, had the grandchildren this weekend, so writing was pretty much out of the question. But did have a good weekend.
real life has been stressful and busy lately but I am still working on this project (and the interrelated ones) as time allows
Your Real Life is important. Concentrate on that and continue this timeline and others when it's convenient.
Is it strange that I thought you wrote history games with GB as the referee, and I assumed you meant to describe the 19th century with GB being Britain?
The Siege February - March 1942
The Siege tightens
American/Filipino forces in the Philippines after February 1 are organized into two commands. General Wainwright leads the Luzon Force, consisting of 103,000 troops organized into 2 corps and the Manila Bay fortress command. General Ord leads the Visayen Force, consisting of one corps of 5,000 men in 2 weak divisions and another 20,000 men organized into 10 small regiments spread about the various islands except Luzon. Ord also commands the 4,000 men that have been formed into 2 small regiments in northern and central Luzon. His 24,000 troops have orders to blend into the civilian population until further orders. These troops have been written off the muster roles as released from active duty due to illness, or as absent without leave so when the Japanese complete the destruction of the conventional forces, the plan that Douglas MacArthur and Dwight Eisenhower had formulated several years ago will go into effect and a guerrilla war will begin against the Japanese to lay the ground work for eventual liberation.
Limited evacuation
The transfer of aircraft to assist in the evacuation of Singapore ends the airlift from Java to Cebu on February 3. By that point, 1400 wounded and sick have been flown out of the Philippines to Australia, along with 800 passengers. The passengers were from the US 31st, 65th Infantry Regiments, as well as as the 26th and 112th Cavalry Regiments, along with the 192nd and 194th tank battalions. The Army has evacuated battalion and company executive officers, battalion operations officers, and numerous sergeants who have valuable experience the Army needs and who capable of taking command of combat battalions, companies and platoons. In short the cream of the survivors that would not too badly hurt operational effectiveness in Bataan. The American officers and senior chiefs assigned to the PT boats are also evacuated as those craft have been entirely handed over to the Filipinos. A number of officers and enlisted men are also evacuated, as well as the number of other officers who have specialized experience in tropical medicine. The last of the US Navy and US Army nurses are also flown out during this time, their places taken by Filipino nurses and nurse aides.
The airlift resumes on February 11, but the growing isolation of the Philippines, now cut off from surface reinforcement even for the southern and central islands, is impacting available fuel and parts that can be used for a continued airlift from Bataan to Cebu, and transport aircraft can only be refueled and serviced at Cebu with increasing difficulty. The Japanese have finally identified the importance of Cebu and Dole Fields, and Japanese bombers are now making routine attacks on both fields. While not large raids (only a few bombers are devoted to this purpose) it is enough to inflict steady damage that each day is relatively minor but is adding up quickly as little in the way of spare equipment is available to be lost. Bombs and damage to the runways also slowly depletes the transport fleet, as several are lost in accidents or to bomb hits after February 11, while others are reduced to hanger queens and cannibalized for parts. This forces a reexamination of evacuation. No more stretcher cases can be evacuated, and only those deemed unlikely to survive imprisonment (such as those who are blinded or double amputees that can travel). This allows up to triple of number of evacuees each trip, which makes up for the reduction of aircraft available and so nearly 1,500 more Filipino soldiers are flown out in a few days.
The Japanese raid on Darwin on February 19 ends the airlift a second time, as damage to facilities and aircraft are serious, and several days are lost reorganizing the surviving aircraft. Orders from Washington are received directing that for now future air evacuation will prioritize Allied personnel and civilians from Java instead. Over the next few weeks until the final surrender of Dutch forces several thousand Allied civilians and military personnel are flown out. By that time several deliveries of critical supplies have reached Bataan by submarine and a number of important personnel evacuated through that means.
Hard earned knowledge passed on
The evacuated Filipinos troops, along with Filipinos from the United States, will form the basis of the 5th Infantry Regiment (Philippine Army), Philippine Marine Corps (which fields a battalion trained as Marine Raiders), Philippine Rangers (a Philippine Army special operations battalion), 7th Ranger Battalion (Philippine Scouts) and 194th Glider Infantry Regiment (US Army). The evacuated American all provide valuable service during the war, but one of the most important roles some of them performed was in providing the initial staff for the Jungle Warfare Training Schools established at Hawaii and Australia which would pass on lessons to newly arrived American combat troops for the rest of the war.
Stalemate
Over February and March, the Japanese and Filipino/Americans remain in their defensive positions. The Japanese suffer heavy losses to disease, and indeed are forced to pull the 65th Infantry Brigade (redesignated as the 65th Infantry Division) and the 14th Division completely of the line, and both are deployed into occupation duty as Luzon requires a significant garrison. Only the 4th Infantry Division remains on the firing line and 38th Division arrives take position alongside. The diversion of the 38th Division from its original mission (assignment to the Dutch East Indies offensive) results eventually in 3 divisions being pulled from the Kwantung Army, which forecloses the Japanese Army's hopes to take advantage of any Soviet collapse which they expect (actually more of a hope at this point). It also ends optimistic plans for an invasion of Darwin.
Meanwhile both sides are content to conduct patrol actions and harassment raids. Neither side has artillery ammunition to spare for any but the most important actions, but by March the Japanese are getting enough ammunition forward to inflict harassment shelling with mortars and light artillery, while the Japanese move heavy guns to Cavite and begin shelling Fort Frank and Fort Drum.
Slowly but surely the American and Filipino forces grow weaker as attrition and damage mount incrementally.
Map from US Army History of the Fall of the Philippines
American/Filipino forces in the Philippines after February 1 are organized into two commands. General Wainwright leads the Luzon Force, consisting of 103,000 troops organized into 2 corps and the Manila Bay fortress command. General Ord leads the Visayen Force, consisting of one corps of 5,000 men in 2 weak divisions and another 20,000 men organized into 10 small regiments spread about the various islands except Luzon. Ord also commands the 4,000 men that have been formed into 2 small regiments in northern and central Luzon. His 24,000 troops have orders to blend into the civilian population until further orders. These troops have been written off the muster roles as released from active duty due to illness, or as absent without leave so when the Japanese complete the destruction of the conventional forces, the plan that Douglas MacArthur and Dwight Eisenhower had formulated several years ago will go into effect and a guerrilla war will begin against the Japanese to lay the ground work for eventual liberation.
Limited evacuation
The transfer of aircraft to assist in the evacuation of Singapore ends the airlift from Java to Cebu on February 3. By that point, 1400 wounded and sick have been flown out of the Philippines to Australia, along with 800 passengers. The passengers were from the US 31st, 65th Infantry Regiments, as well as as the 26th and 112th Cavalry Regiments, along with the 192nd and 194th tank battalions. The Army has evacuated battalion and company executive officers, battalion operations officers, and numerous sergeants who have valuable experience the Army needs and who capable of taking command of combat battalions, companies and platoons. In short the cream of the survivors that would not too badly hurt operational effectiveness in Bataan. The American officers and senior chiefs assigned to the PT boats are also evacuated as those craft have been entirely handed over to the Filipinos. A number of officers and enlisted men are also evacuated, as well as the number of other officers who have specialized experience in tropical medicine. The last of the US Navy and US Army nurses are also flown out during this time, their places taken by Filipino nurses and nurse aides.
The airlift resumes on February 11, but the growing isolation of the Philippines, now cut off from surface reinforcement even for the southern and central islands, is impacting available fuel and parts that can be used for a continued airlift from Bataan to Cebu, and transport aircraft can only be refueled and serviced at Cebu with increasing difficulty. The Japanese have finally identified the importance of Cebu and Dole Fields, and Japanese bombers are now making routine attacks on both fields. While not large raids (only a few bombers are devoted to this purpose) it is enough to inflict steady damage that each day is relatively minor but is adding up quickly as little in the way of spare equipment is available to be lost. Bombs and damage to the runways also slowly depletes the transport fleet, as several are lost in accidents or to bomb hits after February 11, while others are reduced to hanger queens and cannibalized for parts. This forces a reexamination of evacuation. No more stretcher cases can be evacuated, and only those deemed unlikely to survive imprisonment (such as those who are blinded or double amputees that can travel). This allows up to triple of number of evacuees each trip, which makes up for the reduction of aircraft available and so nearly 1,500 more Filipino soldiers are flown out in a few days.
The Japanese raid on Darwin on February 19 ends the airlift a second time, as damage to facilities and aircraft are serious, and several days are lost reorganizing the surviving aircraft. Orders from Washington are received directing that for now future air evacuation will prioritize Allied personnel and civilians from Java instead. Over the next few weeks until the final surrender of Dutch forces several thousand Allied civilians and military personnel are flown out. By that time several deliveries of critical supplies have reached Bataan by submarine and a number of important personnel evacuated through that means.
Hard earned knowledge passed on
The evacuated Filipinos troops, along with Filipinos from the United States, will form the basis of the 5th Infantry Regiment (Philippine Army), Philippine Marine Corps (which fields a battalion trained as Marine Raiders), Philippine Rangers (a Philippine Army special operations battalion), 7th Ranger Battalion (Philippine Scouts) and 194th Glider Infantry Regiment (US Army). The evacuated American all provide valuable service during the war, but one of the most important roles some of them performed was in providing the initial staff for the Jungle Warfare Training Schools established at Hawaii and Australia which would pass on lessons to newly arrived American combat troops for the rest of the war.
Stalemate
Over February and March, the Japanese and Filipino/Americans remain in their defensive positions. The Japanese suffer heavy losses to disease, and indeed are forced to pull the 65th Infantry Brigade (redesignated as the 65th Infantry Division) and the 14th Division completely of the line, and both are deployed into occupation duty as Luzon requires a significant garrison. Only the 4th Infantry Division remains on the firing line and 38th Division arrives take position alongside. The diversion of the 38th Division from its original mission (assignment to the Dutch East Indies offensive) results eventually in 3 divisions being pulled from the Kwantung Army, which forecloses the Japanese Army's hopes to take advantage of any Soviet collapse which they expect (actually more of a hope at this point). It also ends optimistic plans for an invasion of Darwin.
Meanwhile both sides are content to conduct patrol actions and harassment raids. Neither side has artillery ammunition to spare for any but the most important actions, but by March the Japanese are getting enough ammunition forward to inflict harassment shelling with mortars and light artillery, while the Japanese move heavy guns to Cavite and begin shelling Fort Frank and Fort Drum.
Slowly but surely the American and Filipino forces grow weaker as attrition and damage mount incrementally.
Map from US Army History of the Fall of the Philippines
Last edited:
authors notes: Now that the rest of the Japanese Centrifugal Offensive has been dealt with its time to return to Bataan
The ground work is laid for the future even as the majority of the garrison is preparing for a last stand.
The grand plans for Australia are shelved already, and indeed the Japanese Army is finding that it has more commitments than immediately available troops, so the threat to the Soviet Union is also effectively eliminated even if the Germans do better than OTL in their campaign, which means Stalin can relax further regarding Siberia.
In addition, much earlier in the war, the power and usefulness of air transport is firmly established in the mind of the US Army Air Force, which will mean even more resources devoted to it even earlier than the massive resources devoted to it in OTL.
The ground work is laid for the future even as the majority of the garrison is preparing for a last stand.
The grand plans for Australia are shelved already, and indeed the Japanese Army is finding that it has more commitments than immediately available troops, so the threat to the Soviet Union is also effectively eliminated even if the Germans do better than OTL in their campaign, which means Stalin can relax further regarding Siberia.
In addition, much earlier in the war, the power and usefulness of air transport is firmly established in the mind of the US Army Air Force, which will mean even more resources devoted to it even earlier than the massive resources devoted to it in OTL.
Driftless
Donor
I know this is a tangent to your central storyline, but the point you make above may lead to earlier purpose-built transports, rather than conversions of civilian planes ( ala C-46 & C-47). Planes with extended range, planes that can carry heavy loads in and out of rough airstrips, transports that can be loaded/unloaded/refueled quickly, etc.
The C82 could potentially appear a bit sooner, but I will have to look at it a bit to be sure
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_C-82_Packet