Crusader Kings II - Paradox Entertainement (02/12)

[yourworstnightmare]

I tried the demo and...well it was more interesting than i tought. The borders are as good as usual (thanks the God of gamers, there's a community for that) but it was interesting regarding the others features.

Only one thing strike me really : the dynasties CiA. It's totally random and they just look silly. They could have at least made the "dynastic" CoA we know.

Nevertheless, i'm going to make modifications right now to certain provinces.

There will be DLC with real dynastic CoAs on release day. There will also be a DLC that give the Mongol real Mongol faces, instead of the Arab ones.

 

[Tellus]

My Russian duke married an Imperial heiress, but then cheated on her with a lowly courtier who plotted the death of the princess to legitimize her bastards. An accident befell the heiress, breaking the imperial alliance. Even worse, the lovely courtier turned out to be not-so-lovely and my poor Duke grew depressed and cynical and turned to whores. Then with the loss of the Imperial alliance, the Cuman invaded and he arrow an arrow in the face.

I'm sure more glorious games await

 

[Tellus]

There will be DLC with real dynastic CoAs on release day. There will also be a DLC that give the Mongol real Mongol faces, instead of the Arab ones.

You mean itll be in the day one patch, right?

DLC is generally to mean content you have to pay extra for.

 

[LSCatilina]

You mean itll be in the day one patch, right?

DLC is generally to mean content you have to pay extra for.

Is that, Paradox began to make this sort of stupid marketing too. Sigh. I suppose i'll take the pre-release thing in order to have them. 40 € isn't that expensive.

 

[thekingsguard]

Does anyone know if this game will sync with EUIII?

 

[yourworstnightmare]

Does anyone know if this game will sync with EUIII?

No, but someone will probably mod a save game converter.

And yes, you have to pay for the DLCs if you didn't pre ordered the game from Gamers Gate or Steam.

 

[Tellus]

Is that, Paradox began to make this sort of stupid marketing too. Sigh. I suppose i'll take the pre-release thing in order to have them. 40 € isn't that expensive.

Huh! Wow youre right, they really ripped out the coats of arms and the mongol faces LMAO.

I usually pirate any game who does this shit instead of buying it. I'll have to think about it. I like Paradox, but its my way of helping make sure this kind of shit doesn't pay.

 

[LSCatilina]

Huh! Wow youre right, they really ripped out the coats of arms and the mongol faces LMAO.

I usually pirate any game who does this shit instead of buying it. I'll have to think about it. I like Paradox, but its my way of helping make sure this kind of shit doesn't pay.

Well, i admit that the main reason i wouldn't pirate this is
1)It's a new game, likely to be developped by patches and add-on if it's doing well on sale
2)I want to try multiplayer.

 

[Tellus]

Well, i admit that the main reason i wouldn't pirate this is
1)It's a new game, likely to be developped by patches and add-on if it's doing well on sale
2)I want to try multiplayer.

1) sure thats the classic reason to buy any game you like
2) To my knowledge, Paradox doesnt do multiplayer key management. No CD key and no mandatory registration. But I could be wrong.

 

[yourworstnightmare]

1) sure thats the classic reason to buy any game you like
2) To my knowledge, Paradox doesnt do multiplayer key management. No CD key and no mandatory registration. But I could be wrong.

This game will require Steam registration (or Gamers Gate).

However it shouldn't be too hard to get around it, especially the GG version.

 

[Tellus]

This game will require Steam registration (or Gamers Gate).

However it shouldn't be too hard to get around it, especially the GG version.

Oh, thats a non issue. Neither version have DRM, and if they did it would be cracked in a day. But thats not what I was talking about.

Singleplyer can always be cracked, but multiplayer modes are typically much easier to secure. Most games with multiplayer use authentication methods that make it necessary to get a valid key to play. I was saying that even though Paradox created 'Paradox connect' and may be headed in that direction, for now, I think it still lacks proper validation tools and that therefore, a pirated copy can probably play MP just fine.

 

[Kome]

Huh! Wow youre right, they really ripped out the coats of arms and the mongol faces LMAO.

I usually pirate any game who does this shit instead of buying it. I'll have to think about it. I like Paradox, but its my way of helping make sure this kind of shit doesn't pay.

There's a reason for that you know. They're going DLC crazy because Paradox plans to stop releasing expansions for games.

Personally i think thats a better deal for me, since DLC are cheaper than expansions, especially if you dont buy every single graphic DLC, and a mix of patches and DLC can do the work of an expansion for a cheaper price. Seems fair to me.

Or so i heard. This is all word of mouth.

 

[Tellus]

There's a reason for that you know. They're going DLC crazy because Paradox plans to stop releasing expansions for games.

Uh, no.

Or so i heard. This is all word of mouth.

Yeah, fair enough. What they're actually planning on is making all their future expansions modular, which is a considerable change, but has nothing to do with not making them anymore. Expansions are a major part of their profitability. Either way, it has absolutely nothing to do with this. Day1Dlcs are a total ripoff, they're not expansions.

 

[yourworstnightmare]

Yes, they are not planning to do an expansion for CK 2, at least for now. They have said that Victoria 2 AHD was their last expansion pack. In the future they will expand their games through DLCs, one feature at a time.

 

[Lord Insane]

They have said that Victoria 2 AHD was their last expansion pack. In the future they will expand their games through DLCs, one feature at a time.

Where have they said that? I have said people say that they've said that more than once, but I have not seen any of the developers note that dannie was misleading when he called AHD "the first expansion for the Grand Strategy epic". Now, I assume the developers have said that AHD was their last expansion pack (much to my dislike), but I'd like to have a source.

 

[Tellus]

Yes, they are not planning to do an expansion for CK 2, at least for now. They have said that Victoria 2 AHD was their last expansion pack. In the future they will expand their games through DLCs, one feature at a time.

Where have they said that? I have said people say that they've said that more than once, but I have not seen any of the developers note that dannie was misleading when he called AHD "the first expansion for the Grand Strategy epic". Now, I assume the developers have said that AHD was their last expansion pack (much to my dislike), but I'd like to have a source.

There seems to be a big misunderstanding going on here, obviously.

They're moving to a modular system for new features but it doesn't mean what people seems to assume it means.

It doesnt mean any less new content, merely different packaging/marketing systems and full modularity for additional features.

Is it likely to be a marketing ploy to an extent, where buying every feature ends up costing more? Possibly. But does it mean the end of new features for sale for their games? Definitely not. Whether you call it expansions or DLC is frankly splitting hairs at some point.

This being said, if it does translate to fewer new features instead of more, well then, theyll pay a tall price when their loyal core of fans deserts them. But its far too soon to assume the end is imminent, I think.

 

[LSCatilina]

This being said, if it does translate to fewer new features instead of more, well then, theyll pay a tall price when their loyal core of fans deserts them. But its far too soon to assume the end is imminent, I think.

The problem is that the DLC content instead of more regular expansions is almost always synonymous of more lazy modifications (they don't want to maje big stuff for 3 dollars) and of a lack of support (making paying patches).

It's basically what happened with the infamous Oblivion DLC (remembers guys, the era of Morrowind, when DLC where FREE and FUN) and their greatest idea was to make a real expansion.

So if PI wants to make just a lexical change for expansions...it's a quite buggering. Now if all their DLC are going to be so useful as "Mongol Faces" or "The real dynastic shields" or any trollesque add like that...

I mean, everybody can say that Deus Vult really added a new depth in CK 1, are we going to miss that?

For just a lexical change, they put some doubt in players. For an actual change...it's not really enjoying see from here.

 

[Tellus]

Unless Ive missed something huge, this is the post causing all this fuss. Anyone who reads it should realize saying its the 'end of expansions' is slightly overblown.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...sion-policy-for-the-Internal-Development-Team

* Modular expansions!

This is the big one. In the past, we've released expansions that saw a loss of support for the base game, making for an "all or nothing" approach for the consumer, but supporting multiple executables just wasn't feasible for our small team and we needed to sell expansions to continue supporting the product. Hardly ideal for anyone who didn't want some of the features in an expansion. So, this is something we've thought a lot about in the last year, and have finally decided on a solution.

We've developed a new system to handle modular expansions so that you can buy the small packages that you want when they're released, and it will all be using the same executable, so whichever expansions you own your game will see continued support. There will be no problems with this in multiplayer, and if you have bought one expansion and your friend has bought another, you can still play together. You will have access to the features you bought and your friend the features he bought. Alternatively, if you'd prefer you'll be able to toggle any expansions "off" before the game starts.

We also aim to release smaller expansions and more regularly, maybe once every second month, containing more focused features so that you can buy the ones you want, skip whatever you like and get the most for your money.

We want the process to be as painless and non-intrusive as possible. There will be an in-game store where you can browse all released material and buy them quickly, using for instance Steam or Paradox Connect. There will be no activation limits or the like, nor will you need to be online after purchasing, unless you upgrade or change computer in which case you'll need to log in again.

Personally I see no cause for alarm. This has largely been brought by the fact that many old fans didnt like some of the changes in Divine Wind and wanted more modularity, not by a desire to produce less content. Quite the opposite. Paradox publishes a ton of indie titles but ultimately their money hangs on their core franchises, CK, EU, Vicky, HoI, and if you want to use 'profit' loosely, Rome. They cant reinvent these wheels every year, instead, they make alot of their revenue by improving these titles over and over through a steady stream of expansions. They'd commit financial seppuku if they chose any formula that lessened their ability to produce revenue this way, and their dev teams would be largely out of work.

Theyll continue to produce expansions, they'll just be published differently and possibly in smaller chunks. Dont think this 'Day one DLC' nonesense is indicative of future quality. Thats a crappy strategy, but its still just a standard marketing gimmick to strike at the second-hand market.

I need to add, they addressed alot of concerns on the forums about this and if its reassuring in any way, look at this language. I dont think this is indicative of a desire to cut down on post-launch support:

Starting with Crusader Kings II and all titles going forward where we're planning DLC, we'll be working on this policy. We hope that you'll like this new development. Ideally, Crusader Kings II should be the only title you need to play for the next few years (...until we make a new grand strategy game).

TL,DR - Early adopters get more benefits, we'll be patching games for longer and expansions will be modular so your installation of the game will always see continued patching.

 

[Lord Insane]

To be honest... the 'no executable modification' idea worries me. Exactly how are they going to handle hard-coded features without changing the thing where said code is: the executable? And what about features that goes on both sides or not at all (like, say, AHD's War Justification feature - exactly how balanced would things be if one country had it and another hadn't)?

 

[Tellus]

To be honest... the 'no executable modification' idea worries me. Exactly how are they going to handle hard-coded features without changing the thing where said code is: the executable? And what about features that goes on both sides or not at all (like, say, AHD's War Justification feature - exactly how balanced would things be if one country had it and another hadn't)?

The executable will change for everyone, every time they add a DLC. What they said is that everyone would use the same. Basically, the executable will have all the code for every possible feature but will be able to turn of on demand sections of code based on what you dont buy or disable. A simple way to view it would be the various 'game options' present in EU3 from the first expansion onwards. Theres a bunch of optional exceptions coded but the player chooses to enable them or not (only this time youll be expected to pay for those you want to enable).

Admittedly their 'you can play with what you brought and your friend too' line is confusing me, but we'll have to wait and see how its implemented. Perhaps they'll patch in for free any game-balance-critical feature and try to sell the fluff. This post from Johan suggests something like that:

Lets take Eu3 & Divine Wind as an example. We'd probably had split that up into this..

- New building system - free included in the patch.
- Japan & China systems - small payable expansion.
- Horde mechanics - small payable expansion.

(and of course add some more features to those small expansions, with more focus on the aspects there.. )

The building system is balance critical, the other two things are essentially fluff. Personally I turn off hordes in my game by modding them all into tribal governments instead of steppes, so I wouldnt have brought that one. I also dislike the Call to Arms feature because of how it works; it leads to huge 'cascading alliances' nightmares where world war one starts in 1401 over Burgundian conquest of Liège as surely as if it was the rape of Belgium So modularity can have its advantages.