Crusader Kings II - Paradox Entertainement (02/12)

Tellus

Banned
Sarantapechaina said:
So you can be ass-raped by feudal lords that wouldn't have even sniffed power in historical 1066? No thanks. I'm sitting out this one until they roll out a mod that doesn't apply some sort of screwy hybrid Franco-Imperial feudalism to all of Christendom.
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Err... wut? Care to explain what you think it going to be wrong with Christendom in this game :confused:

From the wording of your sentence, you seem to suggest France and the Empire are likely to behave correctly but everyone else might be too aggressive? If so, aren't these two powers the only ones who might threaten Byzantium anyway, making the issue rather moot for my concept?

Just curious, I read the developer diaries but have no great insight beyond that on the mechanics.
 

Chirios

I just noticed, pretty much all of Western Africa is included in this game, does that mean we'll get to play as Ancient Ghana?
 

Sabbatai Zevi

Tellus said:
Err... wut? Care to explain what you think it going to be wrong with Christendom in this game :confused:

From the wording of your sentence, you seem to suggest France and the Empire are likely to behave correctly but everyone else might be too aggressive? If so, aren't these two powers the only ones who might threaten Byzantium anyway, making the issue rather moot for my concept?

Just curious, I read the developer diaries but have no great insight beyond that on the mechanics.
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I'd have thought it's pretty clear what he means: the game applies an abstracted and ahistorical model of political structure based on a hybrid of France and the HRE inappropriately to the whole of Christendom. Which is a fair enough observation, though I don't see much of a way to get round it for the purposes of a game.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Grumpy young Man said:
Just if these things do not happen and I'll be happy

1. Emirate of Bohemia/Scotland/Denmark
2. Christian Iberian Kingdoms get their asses handled to them by 1080
3. Byzantium the same but by 1070, with numerous vassals breaking up every time - all the courtesy of Michael "Derp" Doukas.
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From some Beta AARs and LPs and the dev. diaries I have found out that:

1. Unlikely, since only crusading lords can march their armies through territories of religious enemies they are not at war with. I.e. Muslims can not march through the HRE if they're not at war with the emperor
2. Religious wars are now slower. You can only take one duchy at a time (your war goal). This means no more blitz, even if the Muslims come out on top, they probably won't own all Spain before 1130 or something. Also means that a Christian reconquista is much slower. From the previews it seems the Christians at least tend to win the first round.
3. Civil Wars don't work as in CK1. If the Byzantine vassals revolt, they revolt over a war goal, like a change of succession law, demands of less crown authority or wanting to put another person on the Imperial throne. When the civil war is over the realm is reunified regardless of who won. If the emperor wins the revolting vassals are jailed and their heirs take over as vassals, if the rebellion is succesful the rebels enforce their claim (their war goal).
 

Sarantapechaina

Sabbatai Zevi said:
I'd have thought it's pretty clear what he means: the game applies an abstracted and ahistorical model of political structure based on a hybrid of France and the HRE inappropriately to the whole of Christendom. Which is a fair enough observation, though I don't see much of a way to get round it for the purposes of a game.
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"What she means", actually. :p

It is tough, true enough. I suppose it's miles better than the MTW and M2TW paradigm of "internal strife? elite management? lolwut" and "all conflict not between states is represented by spawning a godawfully huge number of 'rebel' bandit armies in inconvenient places".

I heard - possibly incorrectly - that the Abstracted Feudalism treatment was being applied uniformly to Christian states, and that an alternative system was to be put in the works for Muslim ones in an expansion, thus spurring some of that ire. Much of the rest comes from pent-up irritation at Paradox for various crap they've pulled over the years unrelated to this particular game (like King's comment about how the company doesn't really care about map accuracy and the continued ignorance of RotW).
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Sarantapechaina said:
"What she means", actually. :p

It is tough, true enough. I suppose it's miles better than the MTW and M2TW paradigm of "internal strife? elite management? lolwut" and "all conflict not between states is represented by spawning a godawfully huge number of 'rebel' bandit armies in inconvenient places".

I heard - possibly incorrectly - that the Abstracted Feudalism treatment was being applied uniformly to Christian states, and that an alternative system was to be put in the works for Muslim ones in an expansion, thus spurring some of that ire. Much of the rest comes from pent-up irritation at Paradox for various crap they've pulled over the years unrelated to this particular game (like King's comment about how the company doesn't really care about map accuracy and the continued ignorance of RotW).
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Muslims are not playable for the initial release version at least. The Muslim AI seems to work on a feudal system with hight crown authority.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
ImmortalImpi said:
This seems fairly normal for the Ayyubids but makes little sense for Khwarezm or the Abbasids.
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From a map I saw the Abbasids are really tiny anyways. Hold a Caliph title, but have almost no land.

And Khwarezm is only in to give you a warning that the Mongols have arrived when you see them get conquered.:rolleyes: (at least with CK1 logic).
 

Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy

Banned
Tellus said:
I'll open the discussion by asking: who will you play first?
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Usually in the first one I picked the royal house of either Poland or Hungary. Plenty of weak non-Catholics beyond my borders (I stayed the hell away from the Byzantine provinces) and some interesting dynastic ties to the Rurikids. Forget the heart of Europe, the wild frontier is where it's at. I remember one game where I reached the Urals and one (possibly the same) where I ended up fighting Muslims south of the Caucasus. Never played any game long enough to face the Mongols, though.
 

Helios Ra

My first game I intend to unite Ireland. Poland or Castille would be my next choice, or else I'll pick a duke in the HRE.

Chirios said:
I just noticed, pretty much all of Western Africa is included in this game, does that mean we'll get to play as Ancient Ghana?
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It's been confirmed as a no.
Perhaps in an expansion if we're lucky.
 

wormyguy

Banned
yourworstnightmare said:
If the Byzantine vassals revolt, they revolt over a war goal, like a change of succession law, demands of less crown authority or wanting to put another person on the Imperial throne. When the civil war is over the realm is reunified regardless of who won. If the emperor wins the revolting vassals are jailed and their heirs take over as vassals, if the rebellion is succesful the rebels enforce their claim (their war goal).
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Jailed? More like blinded! :D
 

Tellus

Banned
Reading this AAR made me undust one of my oldest DVDs.

A 1-season series from my youth that sparked my interest in medieval history and feudal relations. I think it's a perfect portrayal of the mood Crusader Kings tries to create with it's focus on characters and nobility politics rather than nations.

Anyone else ever seen 'Covington Cross'? (1992) I loved that show as a kid :)
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Tellus said:
Reading this AAR made me undust one of my oldest DVDs.

A 1-season series from my youth that sparked my interest in medieval history and feudal relations. I think it's a perfect portrayal of the mood Crusader Kings tries to create with it's focus on characters and nobility politics rather than nations.

Anyone else ever seen 'Covington Cross'? (1992) I loved that show as a kid :)
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Wasn't that the show that was canceled because Ross Perot bought the time slot for his political ads?
 

Tellus

Banned
yourworstnightmare said:
Wasn't that the show that was canceled because Ross Perot bought the time slot for his political ads?
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Indeed :mad: Best argument yet an American managed to find in favor of the two-party system. :p

Back on topic:

The map was just recolored and looks much nicer IMO. This is what its gonna look like after all, more or less:

attachment.php


My only minor gripe is that if youre going to show the Carpathians on the political map (they act as unpassable terrain), you could at least make sure the Bohemian mountains don't look like soft plains :p
 
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