50 pages with 19 updates...
(cries in jealousy and amazement)

Keep it up. It is looking really good.

Yeah, I really should've 1. Cared more for the support I got

2. Updated more (You'll see the maths in a second).

3. Hey, to fair, there were minor updates and things, but I get your point.

988- say 30-40 for things = 948 replies/comments.

Thanks everyone! Anyone who has suggestions for the 1000th post idea please give me them so I can make it!
 
Make it perhaps about Cesare in some way. It needs to be really significant to the TL, and should reference the first chapter. Not an ending, but a commemoration somehow.
 
Cesare Borgia: A Restored Rome Timeline
Cesare Borgia: A Restored Rome Timeline

Act 2 Cesare Borgia Part 23: The Request


The Turks must remain silent, for otherwise they will be forced into silence.' Marcus Borgia-Palaiologos, 1515, writing his request to the Ottomans.

After the battle of Oredea, John’s forces resolved to hold the mountain passes of Transylvania. They were still propped up, and able to defend, however John had slowly began to mentally slide, with his disappearance and his defeat seeming to have altered his mind. Regardless, he was still plenty able to hold his ground. Marcus had decided to block off all mountain passes of Transylvania for the winter, forcing him to surrender without another decisive battle. He would soon surrender… He must…

Marcus had still not forgotten the incident with the Janissary, the man who had almost severed his torso from his head. He immediately asked for a pen and paper and thus furiously wrote to Selim I, the Ottoman sultan, to pull out the support of Zapolya out of the war or face the combined Hungarian and Italian armies.


Marcus sat in his command tent, furiously writing, his eyebrows knitted. He believed in the honour of war, and this act by the Sultan was indignified and unjust. If he wanted to play by those rules, there was a certain Italian King that would like to join this conflict too.

He wrote:


‘Dear Sultan Selim of the Ottoman Empire

The art of war is a just and swift process, deciding the superior army, material and morality of society. In one of the recent engagements with my enemy John Zapolya, a Janissary was spotted amongst his ranks, with his body now evident to you. For while I do not engage in baron affairs, and am a man raised in the arts of the Renaissance, I give you this. I demand that you disengage with the Transylvanian usurper and return your armies to the City of World’s desire. For otherwise, the nations of Europe shall sweep like the tides of Marmara back across the Aegean. Do heed my warning, for it is the last.

-Marcus Borgia-Palaiologos, King of Hungary, Prince of Italy, Defender of the Faith.’


He gave the note to one of his commanding officers, who then tied up the note with the corpse of the Ottoman elite guard, and it was soon sent off to Constantinople.


He sat down in his chair, tired. Oh how he wished for Eleanor. This campaign would soon be over, and he could return to her company in Budapest. He soon fell asleep, dreaming of peace.

Picture of Oredea's fields:

124rBIQ.png


Hope everyone enjoyed! This ones relatively short, because of the 1000th post surprise.


-Josh
 
I don't believe the Ottomans will back down. They have not tasted the steel of the Companies, and I would expect they REALLY want a Hungarian King they can control. OTL the year after this Selim started to conquer the Mamluks. One-two years to conquer ALL of the Mamluks. Ottomans are very stronk right now. I don't see why they wouldn't try and support Zapolya more openly if anything. Who will win? Uncertain- the Ottomans are VERY strong right now but the Companies seem to be good at pulling off miracles. So yeah. Turks should get fully involved.
 
I don't believe the Ottomans will back down. They have not tasted the steel of the Companies, and I would expect they REALLY want a Hungarian King they can control. OTL the year after this Selim started to conquer the Mamluks. One-two years to conquer ALL of the Mamluks. Ottomans are very stronk right now. I don't see why they wouldn't try and support Zapolya more openly if anything. Who will win? Uncertain- the Ottomans are VERY strong right now but the Companies seem to be good at pulling off miracles. So yeah. Turks should get fully involved.

Depends. If they are about to invade the Levant they probably aren't going to throw that much at it. Plus, it's pretty clear Zapolya isn't going to win on his own. Not to mention Italian support and a possible western blockade could be pretty nasty. Just overall depends.
 
Great updates Josh! Looking forward to how Hungary will fare under the Borgias.

It was a huge mistake on my part Kaiser. I was coming home after a long geography trip at the beach, got my phone out, decided to look at the thread, thought it said noone had talked since yesterday. So I thought no one had looked at the latest update. So I posted that. I also plan to be a lot more grateful for what I get on here. I am really sorry to all of you.

It's okay Josh. I was merely worried that Calbear might try and kick you for the bumps. Wasn't mad or anything.

On the notes of the last three updates here are my thoughts:

When Marcus and Eleanor were crowned King and Queen of Hungary, they should have gotten married right then and there. If you're not married to the King then under royal law you are not the queen. Both kids love each other already so I'm sure that they would be more than overjoyed for it. Also Cesare would want it to happen ASAP so that way he can start having some grandkids for future heirs and spares of the Roman Empire. The future of the Borgia dynasty is at stake so he would be pressuring Marcus to get married and give his wife a good time on their wedding night. How is Eleanor doing as Queen by the way?

It seems that Marcus is doing really well with the Hungarian reforms. So long as he keeps the balance between nobles and commoners then all should be well.

Yeah John has definitely screwed himself over. Whatever chances he had of gaining the support of the Hungarian people for King went down the drain with him siding with the Turks. Now he will be seen as a betrayer to Christendom and a practical Judas for selling himself to the Muslims. If Marcus is able to crush his armies in Transylvania and capture John for an execution then he can secure his reign. The longer Sigismund is focused on Russia and the more years that Marcus reforms, the better secure Hungary can be for being a part of the New Roman Empire.

I found Marcus' letter to the Sultan a little bit naive on his part. The Sultan is the leader of what is currently the strongest empire in the Western world so he won't be cowered by Marcus unless the Hungarian and the Italian companies destroy the Ottomans in a few engagements first. Since the Ottomans have literally been on a curbstomp through Europe in the last century then Selim would think himself to be the greatest rule in the world. There are two bright sides to the Hungarians current situation though. One, Selim came to reign OTL in 1512 due to a rebellion against the legitimate heir, meaning Istanbul and much of the Empire are in a large amount of civil strife over who rules the empire. Two, Selim is currently focusing his plans on the Middle East and should be focusing on an invasion of the Levant next year to conquer the Mamulks. Unless Selim develops some kind of crazy obsession with Italy or Hungary then he should stick to his plans. I do wonder what his response would be. It would also be interesting to see the later years when both Marcus and Suleiman the Maginficent will be in power. Two very dynamic monarchs going head to head in an epic battle.

Right now for Marcus' war plan after he defeats John, he should stop in Transylvania and not persue into Ottoman territories under any circumstances unless the Ottomans attack first. Put walls on the borders and fortify the Carpathians, then return to Budapest to continue reforms. One interesting to note is that all of Ottoman Europe was Roman territory in the past. Meaning Cesare can have a Casus Belli for conquest.

Finally I have some boy and girl names for future Borgias:

Boy: Julius, Cesare, Leonardo, Rodrigo, Constantine, Matthias, Stephen, Charles.

Girl: Elizabeth, Blanche, Maria, Joanna, Catherine, Lucrezia, Elena.
 
Last edited:
Yep. I reiterate what I and @Kaiser Chris have been saying about Eleanor and Marcus getting married. Also about the strength of the Ottomans.
Also occured to me that Marcus is in line to rule Hungary (already is) and Italy. Is the rest of Europe just going to accept this? I think not. Something like the OTL Franco-Ottoman alliance with a few other states added in seems like a likely reaction.

Edit: Got rid of things that were incorrect. Do not want to accidently steal post 1000.
 
Yep. I reiterate what I and @Kaiser Chris have been saying about Eleanor and Marcus getting married. Also about the strength of the Ottomans.
Also occured to me that Marcus is in line to rule Hungary (already is) and Italy. Is the rest of Europe just going to accept this? I think not. Something like the OTL Franco-Ottoman alliance with a few other states added in seems like a likely reaction.

Also occured to me that Pope Alexander VI Borgia is 84 now. He died at 72 OTL. Cesare has also lived around a decade more than OTL, but he is still in his 50s. The Pope should be dead if not dead soon. I could see Cesare withdrawing to be Pope while Marcus takes the reins of both kingdoms in the future.

Rodrigo already died years ago. That's why Pope Leo X was the one who crowned Cesare as King of Italy. Also there's now way Cesare would just willingly give up his crown for the Papacy. He worked his entire life to become King of Italy and the Papal Enclave would not be willing to allow a married man with a trueborn son as the Pope. Cesare is currently one of the most powerful men in Europe so he'll stay as King of Italy until he dies either in the 1520's or 1530's.
 
Great updates Josh! Looking forward to how Hungary will fare under the Borgias.



It's okay Josh. I was merely worried that Calbear might try and kick you for the bumps. Wasn't mad or anything.

On the notes of the last three updates here are my thoughts:

When Marcus and Eleanor were crowned King and Queen of Hungary, they should have gotten married right then and there. If you're not married to the King then under royal law you are not the queen. Both kids love each other already so I'm sure that they would be more than overjoyed for it. Also Cesare would want it to happen ASAP so that way he can start having some grandkids for future heirs and spares of the Roman Empire. The future of the Borgia dynasty is at stake so he would be pressuring Marcus to get married and give his wife a good time on their wedding night. How is Eleanor doing as Queen by the way?

It seems that Marcus is doing really well with the Hungarian reforms. So long as he keeps the balance between nobles and commoners then all should be well.

Yeah John has definitely screwed himself over. Whatever chances he had of gaining the support of the Hungarian people for King went down the drain with him siding with the Turks. Now he will be seen as a betrayer to Christendom and a practical Judas for selling himself to the Muslims. If Marcus is able to crush his armies in Transylvania and capture John for an execution then he can secure his reign. The longer Sigismund is focused on Russia and the more years that Marcus reforms, the better secure Hungary can be for being a part of the New Roman Empire.

I found Marcus' letter to the Sultan a little bit naive on his part. The Sultan is the leader of what is currently the strongest empire in the Western world so he won't be cowered by Marcus unless the Hungarian and the Italian companies destroy the Ottomans in a few engagements first. Since the Ottomans have literally been on a curbstomp through Europe in the last century then Selim would think himself to be the greatest rule in the world. There are two bright sides to the Hungarians current situation though. One, Selim came to reign OTL in 1512 due to a rebellion against the legitimate heir, meaning Istanbul and much of the Empire are in a large amount of civil strife over who rules the empire. Two, Selim is currently focusing his plans on the Middle East and should be focusing on an invasion of the Levant next year to conquer the Mamulks. Unless Selim develops some kind of crazy obsession with Italy or Hungary then he should stick to his plans. I do wonder what his response would be. It would also be interesting to see the later years when both Marcus and Suleiman the Maginficent will be in power. Two very dynamic monarchs going head to head in an epic battle.

Right now for Marcus' war plan after he defeats John, he should stop in Transylvania and not persue into Ottoman territories under any circumstances unless the Ottomans attack first. Put walls on the borders and fortify the Carpathians, then return to Budapest to continue reforms. One interesting to note is that all of Ottoman Europe was Roman territory in the past. Meaning Cesare can have a Casus Belli for conquest.

Finally I have some boy and girl names for future Borgias:

Boy: Julius, Cesare, Leonardo, Rodrigo, Constantine, Matthias, Stephen, Charles.

Girl: Elizabeth, Blanche, Maria, Joanna, Catherine, Lucrezia, Elena.

1. Cheers. I was seriously scared this group would leave me over that

2. They were. They were married at their coronation.

3. Yeah. RIP John.

4. Marcus is famously a tad bit naive. Marcus sees all as equal, he is a champion of universal humanism, educated by intellectuals. However, being educated like this isn't the same as being a great leader. He will have to learn somethings before he is a true leader.

5. It's a tense standoff between the two monarchs yes. And Suleiman and Marcus will be famous for their clash

6. Basically.

7. I like the Constantine idea. I could totally see Marcus stick it to the Ottomans and name his son Constantine, as a bit of a 'The Greeks believe the Marble Emperor will rise again, maybe in my empire. You'll have to wait and see'. Julius works too. Italian-Roman names are the ones I go with.

Mental_Wizard: There's definitely something odd about the succession. Austria can't really say anything, they're sort of tied to them. I plan to deal with PLC, Ottomans are toast. Only ones left are France and Spain.

Second Kaiser_Chris: Yep, he's secured himself. There's nothing the remaining Monarchs can do/want to do that will kick him out.
 
Last edited:
The Ottoman threat should not be something you can deal with in just one war.It's likely going to be a decades long process just to expel the Ottomans from Europe,probably with a lot of truces in between.
 
The Ottoman threat should not be something you can deal with in just one war.It's likely going to be a decades long process just to expel the Ottomans from Europe,probably with a lot of truces in between.

Yep. Ottomans will be around for a while. Never meant that the one fail swoop of the Ottomans could be done, even by any of our great heroes.


P.S. No more replies. This is to be the last one till the update.
 
Cesare Borgia: A Restored Rome Timeline
Cesare Borgia: A Restored Rome Timeline

Act 2 Cesare Borgia Part 24: 1000th Post Special!


‘Oh, for how my life simply could’ve gone awry, I am proud and happy to have you by my side’ Cesare Borgia, 1515, partying in Ravenna with Blanche.


Cesare Borgia, King of Italy, was at one of his festive balls, with many a intellectual and even lower class invited to the party, provided they have respect and manners. He, while not as humanist as his son, was still open to ideas and equality.


In southern Italy, large amounts of dockyards as well as ‘Trading Halls’ had been opened in Bari, Taranto, Naples, Salerno and Calabria. Trading Halls were large atrium like buildings with warehouses for storage could be bought by merchants, then traded there. They also had living accommodation for the Merchants of relatively high standard. These sprang up in northern Italy too, but not as much as they weren’t government subsidised. Many trading ships were constructed, with the goods from northern Italy being bartered and sold then transported all over the Mediterranean, then the world. As the era of Italian finance had almost ended, it had been brought back to the golden age, and with Italy united and strong, this wasn’t going to be end of it.

Ravenna’s construction projects continued to rise. Leonardo had been gradually retreating from public life, however a few more inventions of his had been given the go-ahead by Cesare. These included a three barrelled cannon on a designed on a platform that could easily be positioned and moved around. This, as well as many others such as a Spring powered cart and even a underwater suit were designed and used to awe people at venues and parties.

His moderately independent judiciary had been set up, making him hugely popular with the lower class, intellectuals and lower nobles, who no longer had to resort to violence to resolve disputes. However, it ended further reduced the power of the higher remaining nobility, angering them. They would not forget these insults.


Regular men and intellectuals were invited to his halls, with Cesare often helping pay for their outfits and food.

A man had requested to Cesare, begging him not to go. ‘But sir, for I cannot pay, and do not know the ideas of luxury. My family would starve in my attempts to pay to come to this.’

Cesare laughed, and responded. ‘Do not fear the life of luxury, instead aspire to it. I shall pay for your losses, so you can both enjoy yourself with your wife at this feast and still be able to feed them afterwards.’

Cesare Borgia was dancing in the ballroom at Ravenna with Blanche, the true King and Queen of Italia. Blanche was in a stunning white dress, still beautiful despite her rising age.


‘Cesare, you ever think we are getting too old to be dancing?’ Blanche blushed slightly and looked around nervously.


‘Nonsense! The day I am too old for dancing is the day I am too old for breathing!’ Blanche laughed and they spun around the ballroom together.

Afterwards, once everyone had eaten, Cesare signalled for everyone to listen to him He raised his glass in a toast. ‘Despite the original scenes of my possible destruction, in the many wars I have fought and won, I can honestly and truly say that life is better for the people of Italy now more than ever before. For the borders of Italy are secure, the foreign powers removed, the men educated, armed and wealthy. While Italy may have been the playground of nations in charge of their own destiny, Italy has joined them as its own state. Sadly, Marcus could not be with us, due to his civil war in Hungary. So let us celebrate him, and the Italians. To the scholars, to the standard working men, to the Church and to my noble son. Glory to Italy!’

All cheered in their name. They cheered the Roman prince, the honorable mercenary, the daring captain. For no Italian hero was greater.



It was a cold night in the city of Venice. Families had closed their windows and kept small fires warm in their homes, fearing the cold get to their children. Almost imaginary, the faint noise of Cesare’s party could be heard.

A hooded figure raced through the thin Venetian streets, overlooking its grand canals. The dark figures and ominous patterns in the water spurring him on. His steed was quiet, only making the lightest of claps on the cold stones of Venice.

He got off his horse, and moved into one of the sectioned off houses, its shutters closed.


Inside, men of valiant clothing but nothing else brave stood over a map of the Adriatic and of greater Italy and Hungary. The messenger bowed to the nobles of the planning room and said ‘Sir, why is there a pig’s heart behind that picture?’

The man in the centre continued to look at the map, pointing with his knife. He waved off the question. ‘Not important. What is your message?’ he demanded.

‘Sir, I give you word from the Hungarians in the north. We have their support. Whenever you are ready, we shall strike. They recommended to wait for the next war of Marcus.’

The man in the centre of them rose up, grinning, ‘Excellent. The Borgian Experiment shall be ended here.’

‘But sir, the populace would reject our revolts. They are not willing to rebel.’

He glared at the messenger, ‘Bah, ridiculous. They hate the Borgia’s more than anyone, their civilians killed in their putrid wars.


He walked up to the messenger, towering him, and stated For I am Attila Del Carlo, and I am the wave that shall wash the Borgia’s out to sea.’

He threw his knife, the picture splitting in two and it began to bleed, with blood oozing down the wall.

Venetian night:
1880_nocturne_in_blue_and_silver_the_lagoon_venice_2k.jpg


Hope everyone enjoyed! Decided we should go back to the man that started it all, with some foreshadowing up ahead.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd like to personally thank every single one of you for this achievement. We have reached 1000 posts in a mere 38 days, one of the fastest timeline's of this year! It could not have been done without the help of all of you.

I'd like to personally thank Mohamud and Raunchel, for the almost immediate likes and feedback on my writing style

I'd like to thank Kaiser Chris for his long, detailed responses and ideas on the subject of this timeline

I'd like to thank ThatRomanFanatic and Mental_Wizard for being funny and in general being around me a lot of the time. You guys helped a lot

I'd like to thank darthfanta for his amazing nitpicking. This would've been ASB a long time ago without your help!

Finally, and most of all, I'd like to thank RogueTraderEnthusiast. You guys may not know this, but he's been working tirelessly behind the scenes, even at 7-8 in the morning (sorry mate), without him this timeline probably wouldn't exist, or be an unorganised mess. Thank you Rogue.

Overall, I'd like to thank all of you. Even the ones who just occasionally like my posts. Those alerts seem to fuel my life force now, so this keeps me engaged and interested. We have reached one thousand posts. May we continue to journey to bright, sunlit uplands.


Anyway, thanks for reading!


-Josh
 
Last edited:
Top