To be fair, Spain, Austria, and Russia also have medieval administration. Though Russia is reforming.
Alamgirnama: A Mughal Timeline
- Thread starter Madhukar_Shah
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Got to say this is an amazingly detailed timeline. I love how much work your putting into the intricacies of the evolving Mughal administration. This is fantastic!
There are some misconceptions on this TL which I sought to clarify, along with some doubts of mine.
First of all Vyankoji was the step brother of Chhatrapati Shivaji, and the two never had much of a correspondence with each other, let alone a functional relationship. And anyway after the death of Shahajiraje, Shivaji Maharaj's father, the jagir of Bangalore granted to him by the Adilshah, was granted to Vyankojiraje, while his Pune jagir was ruled by Shivajiraje and his mother Jeejabai. Vyankoji had no contact with his half brother before Shivaji Maharaj invited him for a goodwill visit after his own coronation as Chhatrapati in 1674. And about Vyankoji's jagir of Thanjavur, it was enfeoffed to him after he conquered it from the Nayakas of Thanjavur in the name of the Adilshah.
And I wonder how the author can contradict his own assertion in one of his previous updates wherein he mentions that Shivajiraje did not consider himself to be fully defeated due to the lacklustre performance of the Mughal army sent against him as compared to OTL, and yet he has him become a loyal-ish general of Aurangzeb eventually. I would really be gratified to hear from the author, on how a person who above all else desired an independent Hindu kingdom free from any external shackles, assents to become a quasi-vassal of the Mughals.
Also as mentioned in one of the previous updates, about the Rajput queen Mahamaya being forced to commit Sati, I would like to mention that Sati was strictly a voluntary practice and that no woman could be forced to commit it without her consent. Anyway Sati is performed when the woman immolates herself in her husband's pyre, and I reckon that the forced performance of "Sati" forced upon the Queen was quite long after her husband's death. And if you plan to counter it with the practice of 'Jauhar' among the Rajput noblewomen, 'Jauhar' was a mass suicide performed in case the women felt an impending threat to their dignity and though it could have been performed individually, it too was strictly voluntary. If the Raja forces a woman of his clan to forcibly undergo a suicide it would be a source of great loss of prestige and shame to his family.
Well there are some other points of contention which I would like to discuss in detail, but I feel this much is enough for now.
NOTE:
And remember that I like the premise of this TL and have no wish to challenge it, and just want to improve it by pointing out some discrepancies and voicing my doubts.
First of all Vyankoji was the step brother of Chhatrapati Shivaji, and the two never had much of a correspondence with each other, let alone a functional relationship. And anyway after the death of Shahajiraje, Shivaji Maharaj's father, the jagir of Bangalore granted to him by the Adilshah, was granted to Vyankojiraje, while his Pune jagir was ruled by Shivajiraje and his mother Jeejabai. Vyankoji had no contact with his half brother before Shivaji Maharaj invited him for a goodwill visit after his own coronation as Chhatrapati in 1674. And about Vyankoji's jagir of Thanjavur, it was enfeoffed to him after he conquered it from the Nayakas of Thanjavur in the name of the Adilshah.
And I wonder how the author can contradict his own assertion in one of his previous updates wherein he mentions that Shivajiraje did not consider himself to be fully defeated due to the lacklustre performance of the Mughal army sent against him as compared to OTL, and yet he has him become a loyal-ish general of Aurangzeb eventually. I would really be gratified to hear from the author, on how a person who above all else desired an independent Hindu kingdom free from any external shackles, assents to become a quasi-vassal of the Mughals.
Also as mentioned in one of the previous updates, about the Rajput queen Mahamaya being forced to commit Sati, I would like to mention that Sati was strictly a voluntary practice and that no woman could be forced to commit it without her consent. Anyway Sati is performed when the woman immolates herself in her husband's pyre, and I reckon that the forced performance of "Sati" forced upon the Queen was quite long after her husband's death. And if you plan to counter it with the practice of 'Jauhar' among the Rajput noblewomen, 'Jauhar' was a mass suicide performed in case the women felt an impending threat to their dignity and though it could have been performed individually, it too was strictly voluntary. If the Raja forces a woman of his clan to forcibly undergo a suicide it would be a source of great loss of prestige and shame to his family.
Well there are some other points of contention which I would like to discuss in detail, but I feel this much is enough for now.
NOTE:
And remember that I like the premise of this TL and have no wish to challenge it, and just want to improve it by pointing out some discrepancies and voicing my doubts.
Well, I’m not sure that I see how exactly that doesn’t fit with what this TL describes- an especially close relationship between the brothers is never stated, merely that when one was posted to the other side of the empire, the other went with him, which you could attribute to him not wanting to leave behind any major rivals.
The jagir of Thanjavur also is quite a bit after the PoD so I had the same thing happen but by alternate means, which I think are pretty plausible considering that during the succession crisis there, they simply wanted help and considering the Adil Shahs were currently being besieged, they’d turn to the strongest power in that area, being the Mughals, who send Venkoji
As for Shivaji, I saw it more like he knew he wasn’t beaten but it was advantageous to join up with the Mughals. OTL he was very impressed with the grandeur of the Mughal court and the military legends he met there (Jai Singh especially) and I contend, if given the respect he felt he deserved, wouldn’t especially mind signing up. He does maintain his own independence and his core Hindu identity, but the way I see it, the only actual source that says Hindavi swaraj was a main goal of his has disputed authenticity, and if true (which I consider likely) I doubt he meant Hindu independence in the modern sense since in those days Hindavi simply meant Indian, like the language Hindavi which obviously has nothing to do with Hinduism and everything to do with Hindustan. He was avowedly Hindu, but he had no grand goal of a Hindu empire as seen in the Islamic institutions he used, the language he used in government, the fashion at his court, his reverence of Muslim saints and the list goes on. He represented a highly tolerant, composite culture and I personally don’t like Hindu nationalist retellings of his story that make it seem like he was a religious freedom fighter.
I will admit, I did get sati and Jauhar confused there and I will change that- but yes she was forced to commit Jauhar and I know this is highly irregular and in normal situations, would’ve been extremely dishonourable. At the same time, though, her crowning herself, breaking purdah, leading a military campaign and ruling in her own name were also seen as extremely dishonourable and in the end they decided they were willing to dishonour themselves by forcing her to do this if it meant the stain on their kingdoms honour was removed. Probably their official explanation was that she felt that she had already dishonoured herself so much that this was the only way she could atone for it.
Thanks for catching that mistake though, I wouldn’t have. I hope I’ve answered these well enough, and if you have any more concerns along the way, I’d love to hear- I want this to be as good as it can get!
This can mean a lot of good things for the Omani and Aceh Sultanates in the future.
Even with the substantial administrative and financial reforms done by Aurangzeb this time around, I have a hard time seeing the Mughal Sultanate holding on to the Subcontinent without being over extended. Not to mention Bahadur Shah still being around.
People are often surprised at the resilience of monarchical states. Somehow Austria-Hungary survived through WWI, only dismantled at the end. The Qing lasted through several events that would destroy lesser administrations, let alone one after another.
I get that, but will they be able to hold on to their recently conquered holdings. That is what I am asking
7. Safavid Collapse
Rulers of Nisf-e Jahan to Rulers of Nothing
An excerpt from "After Chingiz: A History of Global Empire"It went badly wrong.
His force, though larger than the afghans soon found themselves outmaneuvered and hemmed in against a river. In the engagement, he lost sixty percent of his forces and personally suffered the loss of his right hand. At that moment, the Shah must have realized how inexperienced he was and beat a hasty retreat back to Isfahan. Along the way, his wound became infected and he fell ill with a fever; he arrived in Isfahan lashed to his saddle and on the verge of death. He was immediately given the best medical care available, which managed to stabilize his condition and he emerged from convalescence in 1680, having lost a hand but gained experience. It is incredibly fortunate the Ottoman sultan or the Russian tsar didn’t take advantage of the Safavid weakness to project power, but they were currently in the middle of a war of the holy league campaign against each other, and for a period afterwards would both be focused on internal reform. As for Abbas, he went straight back to campaigning, however now he would watch and observe more experienced commanders for a while and when he did take charge, it would be only in engagements where he was sure he could win. This state of affairs carried on until 1687, by which point he had pushed the bulk of afghan power to Herat and completely exhausted his treasury. His neglect of the court had led to the empowerment of many different groups at court, Maryam Begum his aunt was one of the leaders of these groups and spent much of the governments money on gifts and bribes. The general population of Iran had been subjected to ever increasing taxation since the 1660’s to finance wars and a rebellion had broken out in Isfahan which needed his attention. In the treaty of Mashhad, Afghan control over Herat was conceded in return for an indemnity, of which only a portion was ever paid, while Abbas raced back to secure his capital.
Upon arrival at the capital, Abbas found the gates closed against him as a powerful faction had emerged in court that wanted to depose him in favour of his three year old son. He was forced to put his own capital under siege, during which he was faced with desertion after desertion. There came a point when he realised he didn’t have enough soldiers to fight off the reinforcements that were being summoned by the pro-Tahmasp the Second faction or enough food to feed said soldiers and so, he was forced to flee all the way back to Herat, where he commanded the Afghans to help him recover the city. Together they started another siege of Isfahan and this one worked; the afghans proved treacherous in short order though and Salim Khan now took on the title Salim Shah in 1694. Abbas barely escaped with his life, and his son and wives weren’t even that lucky. The Safavi Begums were forcefully converted to Sunni Islam and placed under house arrest until their deaths. The deposed monarch now fled to Aurangzeb’s court where he was received with honour by the vakil, Asad Khan- though the great Moghul himself didn’t deign to grace him with his presence. Aid in regaining his kingdom was denied to him, and when after losing all hope, the ex-shahenshah asked for a place in the Mughal mansabdari system, that too was denied him. Eventually, a coalition of Shia mansabdars managed to use their political leverage to convince Aurangzeb to let them give him shares from their own jagirs, though on the condition that Abbas himself had to publicly beg for it from them in the darbar of Delhi.
The reasons for the decline and eventual fall of the Safavid state have been long discussed. Politically, it was a curious amalgam of a turkic tribal alliance with Iranian literati, but no real fusion had occurred. Squeezed between Ottoman Mesopotamia in the west and a vast tribal hinterland stretching east and south to Herat and Kandahar, Safavid Iran had always represented an uphill struggle to impose the authority of the city and the sedentary world on the steppe and the desert. Corruption plagued the court and tax revenues were uncertain. Abbas the third and his predecessor were both coddled in the imperial harem and thus had no idea how to rule, factors which showed in their administration and served to further weaken the respect for the imperial centre in the empires peripheries. The impact of the Mughal incursion is also undeniable- without Shivaji, it is possible that the central coalition would have remained stable for many decades more, that Shah Suleiman would have learnt how to rule, that the afghans wouldn’t have become a political force, that during the Ottoman defeats in Europe, the Safavids would have pushed them out of Mesopotamia. Any number of things could have happened, though what did happen is that this once illustrious dynasty was supplanted and reduced to begging in a foreign court.
What the safavids found hard, the Afghans found near impossible and by the death of Aurangzeb in 1704, numerous local warlords had emerged, each striving to reunify the country under their own dynasty. Some had even been raiding Mughal territory, getting as far as Kabul, such that whoever ascended to the Peacock throne would need to send a strong response.
The only real butterflies that have affected the international stage so far. The role played by Nader Shah in crippling Mughal authority OTL I've given to Shivaji for Safavid authority, and as in OTL, this is followed up by Afghan incursions. Which group will eventually secure all of Persia again? Who knows, certainly not me.
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If iran goes sunni, then peace could happen, hell it would a matter of time for the muslim three emperors league to form. Btw can someone come up with a name for the Muslim version of the three emperors. Mughals could push their luck and take more of iran, adding shia is not that bad of an idea as they are still muslim so helps add more muslims to the empire.
Who rules balochistan now?
Who rules balochistan now?
Balochistan is claimed by a fair number of conflicting parties, but the ones with most control on the ground are local Baluchi tribes and the Afghans. A Sunni power in Iran would be hard pressed to maintain control especially over the central Iranian staunchly Shia groups but stranger things have happened.
The timeline reminds me of another timeline cardamom dreams, so sad that it is dead. I want to congratulate the author for his historical accuracy, Indian timeline are so rare.
8. With Money Comes Power
The Beginning of the Merchant Era
"The trade of India is the trade of the world... Whoever controls trade with India becomes the dictator of Europe"- Peter the Great of Russia
An excerpt from "Indian Economic Growth in the 18th Century" Delhi Madrasa Press"The trade of India is the trade of the world... Whoever controls trade with India becomes the dictator of Europe"- Peter the Great of Russia
The merchant era had officially begun in the 1680’s and by the turn of the century, its effects across the globe had started to become apparent- but before looking at these, it is desirable to understand the economy of India itself. Since the discovery of the New World, India had been a sink for precious metals discovered there, attracting European after European with its fabled riches and infamous opulence.
In 1700, Aurangzebs vazir reported a revenue of more than £110 million, which was more than ten times the annual revenue of his contemporary, Louis XIV of France, while controlling just seven times the population. The relatively high tax revenue can in part be attributed to the caste system, which created unusual docility in the lower classes and made them much more willing to pay taxes than their contemporaries in Europe or China.
The Empire in 1700 had a higher GDP than western Europe or Qing China, with an industrial output that equalled a quarter of global output, while controlling a quarter of the worlds population. Key industries for the empire included textiles, shipbuilding and steel. Of these, the most important both for the empires economy and on the global stage was textiles, centred in Bengal Subah. Indian textiles were imported in large volumes to Indonesia, Japan and Europe. In fact, when the Dutch VOC was establishing itself in Indonesia, they found that many Indonesian notables refused to trade for anything apart from Mughal textiles, which is what forced them to set up in India in the first place. Shipbuilding in Bengal alone also dwarfed Europe, with the average yearly tonnage being greater than Britain, the Dutch Republic and North America combined.
In fact, since Shaista Khan’s government in Bengal in the 1660’s, it had grown to be the beating financial heart of the Mughal empire, containing half of its GDP, an eighth of its population, and almost every single large bank. It was a centre for silk, cotton, steel, almost every single one of the empires major industries. There were a few other major ports as well however, including Surat and Masulipatnam. Due to its position on India’s west coast and early conquest by the Mughal empire, Gujarat had long been the centre of trade with the middle east, India’s primary market and ensured the centrality of the Rajputana to Delhi because of its position in the middle of this trade route- nevertheless, Surat had lately entered a decline, due to the instability in Persia, need for Portuguese protection, and lack of any unique industry. At the turn of the eighteenth century, the question in Surat was whether the new absence of a Portuguese presence in Goa would revive its fortunes.
The last of the major Indian ports was Machilipatnam on the Coromandel coast, which had previously been the major port of the Golkonda Sultanate. As well as the classic cotton and silk industries, hand painted Machilipatnam chintz fabrics were famous in the Indian ocean for their quality and the Golkonda diamond mines had been an extra source of wealth, producing the Koh-I Noor itself.
Though Mughal India had a higher urban population than Europe at the time and more people in non-primary sectors, the fact remained that its principal source of revenue was from the land itself and agriculture was of course, the biggest industry. As well as wheat, rice and barley, areas around the empire had begun to produce large quantities of cash crops, such as opium, indigo, tobacco, sugar-cane, maize and cotton.
Aurangzeb’s merchant system assigned every mansabdar in the empire a jagir on a ship going to one of either Europe, Africa, the Ottoman empire, Persia, Southeast Asia, China or Japan. Previously Indian merchants had focused their trade on the Indian ocean region, few had been to China, none had been to Europe and none to Japan.
Global Trade 1690-1700
Before 1690, the threat of piracy from the English during child’s war discouraged mansabdars from filling their jagirs, but with the acquiring of a Mughal navy and restored diplomatic relations with the English, they felt safe enough to increase their output, focusing on textiles, spices, silk, pepper and saltpetre for munitions.
The British and Dutch had made sure that they still possessed monopolies of all things sold to their mother countries, so the first Mughal fleets were instructed to sell their goods in France and Spain. This was probably engineered by the British and Dutch to strangle French and Spanish merchants, leaving their transatlantic trade ripe for the taking. The first full fleet docked first in Spain, where they met the Habsburg emperor Charles of Spain and secured the right to conduct business free of harassment in Cartagena. In 1694, an Ibaadat Khana was allowed in Cartagena which included a mosque and a mandir, under the condition that no Spaniard was to be converted and the freedom of Catholics within the empire. This marked the first mosque opened in Spain since the Reconquista. Next, the fleet traveled north to France where they met with Louis XIV and secured similar rights in Nantes. Obviously none of the Indians spoke a lick of Spanish or French, so this was conducted through a Jesuit translator. At each of these kingdoms a representative, Bhagwan Das in Spain and Abdul Qalam in France was left behind to learn the language and represent Mughal interests. As had historically been the case, however, these countries had very little that the Mughals thought they would be able to sell for a profit back in India and this set off a race to create art, weapons or other inventions that the Mughals could use, to avoid paying in revenue collection rights as the Mughal officials had originally suggested. Before turning back around, the Mughal fleets also sent delegations to London and Amsterdam, where they were received with full honours. The Dutch tried very hard to convince them to ask Aurangzeb to let them have the monopoly of trade with Indonesia and Japan, though in return all they received was a good natured assurance that they would try.
China and Japan moved much tougher nuts to crack however, with China lumping Indian merchants and European merchants together in the Ocean Trading House and carefully regulating their power, while Japan expelled Indian merchants entirely in favour of the Dutch as part of their Sakoku policy of isolation.
Despite the general successes of the late 17th century, there were however a fair few problems beginning to show in the Indian economy. The increasing need to transport things to the sea showed the terrible quality of roads and uselessness of many major Indian rivers as canals. Additionally, a currency crisis was in the works as the massive quantities of bullion being imported had led to a devaluation of the rupee since Vasco da Gama’s first voyage. These problems seemed relatively small at the beginning of the 18th century and were widely ignored in favour of optimism as the money just kept flowing in.
I don't really want to turn this into a Mughal-wank but they were already so phenomenally successful. A lot of the first bit is completely OTL, including the Peter the Great quote. OTL the thing that destroyed this was the constant warring between the Marathas, the Mughals and later the Afghans and Mysoreans. Get rid of the Maratha rebellion and give Mughal nobility incentive to look outwards and you've got a ready made superpower.
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I don't think you're really wanking this. The Mughals still have their biggest hurdles ahead of them. The industrial revolution and spread of capitalism will challenge the Mughals severely. The Qing were also absurdly rich and powerful in 1700. The problem is that the Mughals have much the same challenges as the Ottomans, Russians, and Qing. The Ottomans almost made it, as did the Qing, and the Russians made it, albeit without the Czar. The Mughals could still possibly have their navy shot right out of the sea by a grand fleet of first-rates and then have their shipyards set ablaze and coastal cities looted. Even if they have a powerful navy, they have made grave enemies in the two most prominent sea powers of the Netherlands and England. And their premodern administration still hampers them, although the reforms have ensured a certain level of stability, they need to have their own Tanzimat or Petrine reforms to bring their country into the 18th and 19th centuries. Peter is soon to implement reforms that will bring Russia from the periphery of Europe to one of its principal actors. The Mughal emperor will need to implement reforms that not only ensure the ability of the state to prevent internal destruction, but to compete on a global scale with actors that historically dominated the eastern empires. If Wallonian mills become so productive the Indonesians and French stop buying Bengal cloth, then the Mughals will have a hard time funding their navy. If the French send iron-skinned steam ships to raid Mughal shipping and cities, will they be able to stop them?
All Aurangzeb has done is ensure the survival of the empire for now. By merely diverting the crisis and putting resources into an area that the Mughals were underperforming in (trade and naval matters,) he has ensured the Mughals remain the richest empire in the world. But that is only a small improvement relative to the huge leaps and bounds the Europeans are going through right now. His successors will need to come up with a way to both become flexible and remain stable. It is no mean feat.
All Aurangzeb has done is ensure the survival of the empire for now. By merely diverting the crisis and putting resources into an area that the Mughals were underperforming in (trade and naval matters,) he has ensured the Mughals remain the richest empire in the world. But that is only a small improvement relative to the huge leaps and bounds the Europeans are going through right now. His successors will need to come up with a way to both become flexible and remain stable. It is no mean feat.
Yeah there’s definitely a long way to go- no matter how worried the Dutch get that they might lose commercial power in Indonesia even their declining power could probably deal with the Mughals if it came down to a naval battle. Rest assured, we’re not done with the reforms just yet
I don't mind a wank, the mughals themselves barely get attention here. Wank for the win.
markus meecham
Banned
If peoplw can make a thousand byz survival/even larger britwank/ameriwank timelines with nobody batting an eye here, i want a damn mughalwank!
Mughal wank for the win as it isn't a muslim wank as they cant make india all muslim its a south asia wank where they all work togather. Also its boring if the europeans just conquer the rest of the world like normal. A united south asia that on level with europe is op, should not be nerfed.
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