AHC: Iranian Dynasty in China

[Crying]

Your challenge is to have an Iranian people serve as the royal and noble family of a state in modern China, excluding Tibet and Xianjiang. They don't have to actually control China - they might simply be a claimant to the Mandate of Heaven during one of the country's many 'broken up' periods - and they don't have to speak Persian, although that would be cool. They simply be have to be an Iranian people, who at least start off speaking an Iranian language, that rule an area of China.

I think the easiest way would be some kind of eastward Scythian migration who end up settling in the region, but if you can think of a more interesting way I'm all ears.

 

[Timaeus]

The Sassanian nobles who got exiled to Tang China rise in prominence instead of fall into obscurity?

 

[Avrorrange]

The Sassanian nobles who got exiled to Tang China rise in prominence instead of fall into obscurity?

I can see it plausibly happening.Though they will probably have to spend several generations getting 'sinicised'.

 

[samcster94]

I don't think they could realistically be Muslim if they participated as it obviously conflicts with Confucianism. They could abandon Islam of course, though.

 

[Timaeus]

I don't think they could realistically be Muslim if they participated as it obviously conflicts with Confucianism. They could abandon Islam of course, though.

There was nothing about Islam here: it's about Iranian peoples. And the Iranian peoples were not necessarily Muslim: the Sassanians were Zoroastrian.

 

[Whiteshore]

A successful Emperor An Lushan? He was (probably) a Sogdian on his father's side.

 

[JoshuaTheRoman]

The most plausible scenario for this is if in very early Chinese history, the (kind-of Iranic) Tocharians or some Iranic people from Central Asia gradually migrate into China bringing newly-invented war chariots, which the Xia/Shang didn't have yet. This would be similiar to what the Hyksos did in Egypt, eventually taking over as their own dynasty.

 

[XFE]

I don't think they could realistically be Muslim if they participated as it obviously conflicts with Confucianism. They could abandon Islam of course, though.

Taoism and Buddhism also have points where they conflict with Confucianism. Taoism in particular is in many cases, the polar opposite of Confucianism.

 

[Falecius]

The most plausible scenario for this is if in very early Chinese history, the (kind-of Iranic) Tocharians or some Iranic people from Central Asia gradually migrate into China bringing newly-invented war chariots, which the Xia/Shang didn't have yet. This would be similiar to what the Hyksos did in Egypt, eventually taking over as their own dynasty.

Tocharians weren't "Iranic" in any sense, unless you are prepared to consider the Greeks as such as well (as Greek is more closely related to the Iranic languages than Tocharian). I agree they could have brought chariots in China however.

 

[JoshuaTheRoman]

Tocharians weren't "Iranic" in any sense, unless you are prepared to consider the Greeks as such as well (as Greek is more closely related to the Iranic languages than Tocharian). I agree they could have brought chariots in China however.

Tocharians were far closer, at the least, culturally, to Iranians, than Greeks were. They were directly bordered by Iranian peoples such as the Scythians, Wusun, and Yuezhi. Regardless, there are many cases of loanwords and Iranic influence in Tocharian, which is why I said "kind-of".

 

[Byzantion]

Your challenge is to have an Iranian people serve as the royal and noble family of a state in modern China, excluding Tibet and Xianjiang. They don't have to actually control China - they might simply be a claimant to the Mandate of Heaven during one of the country's many 'broken up' periods - and they don't have to speak Persian, although that would be cool. They simply be have to be an Iranian people, who at least start off speaking an Iranian language, that rule an area of China.

I think the easiest way would be some kind of eastward Scythian migration who end up settling in the region, but if you can think of a more interesting way I'm all ears.

The Parthians Conquer China.

 

[Deleted member 97083]

The Sassanian nobles who got exiled to Tang China rise in prominence instead of fall into obscurity?

During Alexander's invasion, the Achaemenids under Darius III retreat through Bactria, settling in Korea during the Warring States period. Achaemenids take over Korea, forming an Iranian-Korean kingdom. Then, instead of Qin, it is the Achaemenids who conquer China.

 

[123456789blaaa]

I don't think they could realistically be Muslim if they participated as it obviously conflicts with Confucianism. They could abandon Islam of course, though.

What are you talking about? Hui Muslims did fine in China. They even produced a large body of work reconciling Confucianism and Islam (the Han Kitab)

 

[Timaeus]

During Alexander's invasion, the Achaemenids under Darius III retreat through Bactria, settling in Korea during the Warring States period. Achaemenids take over Korea, forming an Iranian-Korean kingdom. Then, instead of Qin, it is the Achaemenids who conquer China.

...this is like the reverse of that Alexander in Korea scenario. I like it.

 

[Avrorrange]

During Alexander's invasion, the Achaemenids under Darius III retreat through Bactria, settling in Korea during the Warring States period. Achaemenids take over Korea, forming an Iranian-Korean kingdom. Then, instead of Qin, it is the Achaemenids who conquer China.

I don't think any attempt to conquer China through the west will be particularly successful.There's a good reason why it has never succeeded.You have to pass through the Tarim Basin first and all the nomads around the region.After that,there are the treacherous mountain passes of western China.

What are you talking about? Hui Muslims did fine in China. They even produced a large body of work reconciling Confucianism and Islam (the Han Kitab)

Were there any Huis who actually made it big in Chinese society?I was under the impression that they were highly successful as merchants,but not so much in the political field.The only prominent one I could reasonably think of was Zheng He.

 

[123456789blaaa]

I don't think any attempt to conquer China through the west will be particularly successful.There's a good reason why it has never succeeded.You have to pass through the Tarim Basin first and all the nomads around the region.After that,there are the treacherous mountain passes of western China.

Were there any Huis who actually made it big in Chinese society?I was under the impression that they were highly successful as merchants,but not so much in the political field.The only prominent one I could reasonably think of was Zheng He.

Go to "notable Hui people".

 

[DominusNovus]

Would Scythians or Sarmatians or any of those groups count? All you have to do is have a nomadic confederation with them at the top head east, and get a foothold in China. Its counter to the usual patterns, but sounds good on paper.

 

[samcster94]

There was nothing about Islam here: it's about Iranian peoples. And the Iranian peoples were not necessarily Muslim: the Sassanians were Zoroastrian.

Obviously. A pre 651 POD could avert the issue entirely.

 

[CountPeter]

Taoism and Buddhism also have points where they conflict with Confucianism. Taoism in particular is in many cases, the polar opposite of Confucianism.

To add to this, Confucianists even had slurs against their rivals. I believe "navel gazers" was how they referred to Buddhists.

 

[Arkenfolm]

A successful Emperor An Lushan? He was (probably) a Sogdian on his father's side.

Yeah, the surname "An" was commonly used by Iranian peoples, plus An Lushan had tons of non-Han serving under him.

But how would this count for the OP's sake? If his Yan Dynasty is successful and defeats Tang, do they go for more expeditions in Central Asia, invite more Sogdians and other Iranian peoples to China, fill the court and military with Persians and Persianised Turks, etc.? Would that count for "Iranian Dynasty" or is merely having a man of Iranian origin ruling China enough?