A Red Day In Selma: An Alternate History Of The Civil Rights Era And Cold War

Better if all schools and homes in the South are required to have portraits of Abraham Lincoln.
That's going too far--reminds me of the portraits of Lenin and Stalin.
what next ban gone with the wind?
Going too far. However, a few Klansmen fried for premeditated murder is likely in order.
How far does a declaration of martial law go? And might someone seek an emergency injunction from a take court, saying that martial law is illegal?
Also, one drastic, near nuclear option: Federal trial on kidnapping charges for, at a minimum, the ones who ordered the mass roundup of a zillion African Americans. For that matter, the Nuremberg Doctrine means that "I was just following orders" isn't a defense.
(If cops are convicted of crimes. and a message is sent that police ARE accountable for violating the law, that might help rebuild trust--except that MANY police unions will fight tooth and nail to prevent it.)
 
I'll admit, that IS a bit too far. But, honestly, could you blame the goverment ITTL if they did something like that?
Hmmm, how about a “modified” Pledge of Allegiance?

Maybe add the ending to Major Kong’s ”promotions and personal citations” speech -

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." - “And that goes for every last one of you regardless of your race, color, or your creed!”

ric350
 
Last edited:
Chapter 10
Chapter 10: I Hate Illinois Nazis

Happy MLK Day, everyone!

While the Klan was still operating while the Southern Troubles began, they weren't the only well known hate group trying to preserve or expand their influence. George Lincoln Rockwell of the American Nazi Party saw the situation in the country as an opportunity to grow his organization. He was an ardent segregationist and leaflets spread by the party quoted him as saying that white America was the victim of a Communist conspiracy aimed at making the US unable to impede the Soviet bloc's expansion.

However, he didn't focus his efforts on the South. Instead, he turned his gaze toward the Midwest. Its large German American population, especially in Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, and Iowa, were the targets of a large scale recruitment campaign. With the help of members who had access to printing equipment, the American Nazi Party scattered leaflets all in areas with high German American populations. The leaflets appealed to the memory of the anti-German sentiment the community faced in the first half of the 20th century and suggested that they should be proud of the 'noble German blood in your veins.'

Anti-semitic rhetoric was also peddled by the party whenever they could get away with. Jewish cemeteries were targets of vandalism while newly recruited members of the party were expected to call in threats to local synagogues. However, this didn't provoke the response they initially hoped for. In Chicago, multiple meetings of Jewish and African American community leaders led to the formation of neighborhood watches aimed at preventing white supremacist activities. Some of the attendees of this meeting were Holocaust survivors living in the Skokie neighborhood who were photographed meeting with local NAACP leaders, the number tattoos on their arms plain to see.

Another worrying development, to Rockwell at least, was the news that the party's activities were being met with a skyrocketing number of gun sales to Jewish Americans. In a televised address, rabbi John Muntz of Cincinnati spoke about the increase in gun ownership among members in his community, saying that 'I have met people who had fought Hitler's follows on the battlefield and suffered at their hands in the camps. The threat of force is the only thing that will make them hesitate.'

Despite the sudden increase in risk, the American Nazi Party still operated in the Midwest. They still scattered pamphlets and recruited new numbers as well as tried intimidating African Americans in subtle ways. Plainclothes members kept watch for any interracial couples they encountered, and left threatening messages in front of their homes once their could be identified. This was especially the case if a black boy was involved with a white girl. One letter, which was submitted to the FBI by the white girl who received it read 'we implore to think of the health of your bloodline and not dishonor yourself, to think of the bigger picture.' She had been seen by a plainclothes party member during a date with her boyfriend, a black boy from her high school.

The attempts to break up interracial couples got mixed reactions. Some of the party's sympathizers felt that they were ensuring proper racial norms were followed and that teenage culture was becoming degenerate due to 'negro influence.' But to teenagers throughout the region, this was an attempt by follows of a failed ideology to dictate their love lives. Rockwell's efforts to chill burgeoning interracial romances weren't entirely futile though. The party's more violent activities made black and Jewish teenagers hesitant to form romantic relationships with whites, out of fear of themselves and their prospective partners becoming targets of violent retribution.
 
The view from abroad
Chapter 11: The View From Abroad

August 4th 1965

Twin Mountains Cafe, New Delhi

Ehsaan twirled the spoon in his teacup and let his eyes drift down the newspaper he was holding. The front page showed an image of US Army soldiers at a checkpoint near Austin, Texas. News of Dr. King's assassination as well as President Johnson's and the events that followed was something the papers in New Delhi were closely reporting.

Being born to a Muslim family during the Partition, Ehsaan felt that the experiences of Black Americans was something he could heavily relate to. He always felt as though he was a resident of India, not truly a citizen. No one in his family worked a high paying or even somewhat respectable job. His father was a grocer, his brother a shoemaker. His sister was only sixteen and it looked as though she'd end up a housewife. He worked as a waiter at the cafe for the past three months and felt a great deal of pressure to help the family finances.

The lack of opportunities was one thing Ehsaan found relatable. The informal barriers to interactions was another. The heroes of one community were the villains of the other. Neither he, nor anyone he knew, had Hindu friends. To be in a relationship with a Hindu girl was just asking for a beating. A new group of Hindu fundamentalists, the VHP, was already becoming well known to the people in his district. They formed with the mission of 'protecting Hindu culture from predation' but he noticed that this seemed to heavily involve patrolling near Muslim neighborhoods.

What African Americans had to put up with and were continuing to put up with was very familiar to him, even if there weren't technically any laws saying he couldn't go to the same movies theaters or restaurants as Hindus. Ehsaan doubted that a VHP member would kill the prime minister though.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Editor's Conference Room, Neues Deutschland, East Berlin

Angela Vogler looked over the drafts for the next day's paper with the other editors. The domestic news columns were written up, as were the economic and foreign news segments. All that was needed was their final approval.

Chairman Ulbricht had given instructions that news of what was going in the US be on the front page of every daily edition since the march in Selma. The writing staff were run ragged following President Johnson's demise as well. The public was to be bombarded with news of the racial upheaval in the US as part of an ongoing effort to discredit it to the East Germans at large. Though, that wasn't explicitly stated in the orders sent from the party leadership but she understood it perfectly well.

Not that it really bothered her. The SED gave her an opportunity she wouldn't have in the Reich or even in West Germany. She'd do her job and rake in the rewards of having carried out her duties as expected. She may even get an award by the end of the year.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Taipei Air Station, Taipei, Taiwan

Lieutenant Xiao Meng needed a beer. Immediately. He'd now spent a full week with the mechanics trying to get the new additions to the Republic of China's Air Force to function as intended. The F-104 was there only a few months and it was already causing problems for the pilots. It wasn't designed for an environment like Taiwan. The wings were too thin, which made cracks very easy to form in the damp air. Water would expand the cracks and potential tear off the wings if the plane was going too fast.

It was a plane built to fight in deserts, not over a place like mainland China where he was pretty confident they were training to operate it in. He never voiced his doubts aloud, but trying to reclaim the mainland seemed impossible to him. They needed to be preparing for an invasion as best they could, switch to a defensive strategy.

The military was stockpiling a promising amount of supplies, he had to admit. Indonesian oil was arriving daily. US weapons still flowed in while a domestic military industry was establishing itself.

Speaking of resupply, he needed a cold one and quick. Xiao Meng walked over to one of the clerks when he saw something unusual. Two women he believed to be spouses of the US servicemen were staring at each other from across the store, one white and one black. The black woman was getting vegetables while the white one was about to get some fish. The air between them seemed more awkward than hostile. He knew why and it still made him nervous. White and black service members among the US forces were getting more awkward and now it looked like their spouses were being affected by it.

This wasn't going to impact their fighting ability. At least, he hoped not.
 
You should have selected scheduled caste instead of Muslims, Muslims discrimination started only after rss came to power. In 1965 they were like communists in USA, there were die hard followers, but everyone else held them responsible for murder of Gandhi. Inter-community relationship does not happen regardless of community.
Also, most of highly educated Muslims migrated during partition, most of the high Pakistan officials were Indian migrants. Even then in 1965, Muslims were better off, especially higher caste Muslims, especially In Delhi where lot of old rich muslim business and families survived.
 
You should have selected scheduled caste instead of Muslims, Muslims discrimination started only after rss came to power. In 1965 they were like communists in USA, there were die hard followers, but everyone else held them responsible for murder of Gandhi. Inter-community relationship does not happen regardless of community.
Also, most of highly educated Muslims migrated during partition, most of the high Pakistan officials were Indian migrants. Even then in 1965, Muslims were better off, especially higher caste Muslims, especially In Delhi where lot of old rich muslim business and families survived.
I agree with that sentiment. Are you from there perhaps or resided there ? Because your username suggest me that.
 
You should have selected scheduled caste instead of Muslims, Muslims discrimination started only after rss came to power. In 1965 they were like communists in USA, there were die hard followers, but everyone else held them responsible for murder of Gandhi. Inter-community relationship does not happen regardless of community.
Also, most of highly educated Muslims migrated during partition, most of the high Pakistan officials were Indian migrants. Even then in 1965, Muslims were better off, especially higher caste Muslims, especially In Delhi where lot of old rich muslim business and families survived.
I see where you're getting at. Would it have been a better idea for me to use Untouchables instead of Muslims for that segment? I based what I wrote on what I knew of Partition and the instances of communal violence targeting Muslims.
 
I agree with that sentiment. Are you from there perhaps or resided there ? Because your username suggest me that.
I am from India and stayed in Delhi till COVID and i has personally seen the change in attitude in recent years. Delhi is also home for Jamia Millia Islamia, a Raj era University for Muslims which has helped ensure that atleast a large part of Delhi Muslims are educated.
 
I see where you're getting at. Would it have been a better idea for me to use Untouchables instead of Muslims for that segment? I based what I wrote on what I knew of Partition and the instances of communal violence targeting Muslims.
I believe scheduled caste, use of deragatory names is a criminal offence India. They are still exploited and discriminated and communists atleast paid lip service to their upliftment. However, all of the communist leaders were from highest castes and prevented people from lower caste occupying high positions in the parties or government. There has been civil rights movements under leaders like Ambedkar and very strict anti discrimination laws (burden of proof on accussed) were passed. But enforcement is an issue in most places.
 
I believe scheduled caste, use of deragatory names is a criminal offence India. They are still exploited and discriminated and communists atleast paid lip service to their upliftment. However, all of the communist leaders were from highest castes and prevented people from lower caste occupying high positions in the parties or government. There has been civil rights movements under leaders like Ambedkar and very strict anti discrimination laws (burden of proof on accussed) were passed. But enforcement is an issue in most places.
Thanks for the information. I live in the US and while I'm aware that the Indian Communist Party's been active for decades, I confess that my knowledge of this sort of thing is sorely lacking. I am aware that India has a huge problem with wealth inequality though. Where in India are you from, if I may ask?
 
I
Thanks for the information. I live in the US and while I'm aware that the Indian Communist Party's been active for decades, I confess that my knowledge of this sort of thing is sorely lacking. I am aware that India has a huge problem with wealth inequality though. Where in India are you from, if I may ask?
I am from Kerala last state in which communist is in power. But i worked in Delhi till COVID. Wealth inequality depends from place to place. Some states had struct land reformation and some states had no practical land reformation. Urban inequality also differs as minimum wages differ from places to places by almost 5 times, so lot of internal migration from high income inequality states to low inequality states. Migration happens from middle class, especially low inequality states to abroad, currently Canada is preferred. Earlier generation went as guest workers to middle East.
 
Last edited:
I

I am from Kerala last state in which communist is in power. But i studied in Rajasthan and worked in Delhi till COVID. Wealth inequality depends from place to place. Some states had struct land reformation and some states had no practical land reformation. Urban inequality also differs as minimum wages differ from places to places by almost 5 times, so lot of internal migration from high income inequality states to low inequality states. Migration happens from middle class, especially low inequality states to abroad, currently Canada is preferred. Earlier generation went as guest workers to middle East.
Do you mind if I PM you in the future to clear up any misconceptions about this topic? India will have a major part to play in this story in the future and being able to run some ideas by someone living in India will help me avoid making any particularly embarrassing mistakes.
 
You should have selected scheduled caste instead of Muslims, Muslims discrimination started only after rss came to power.
Muslim discrimination to a large extent remained suppressed and contained at the personal level in the post independence years. For example many preferred to not buy from Muslim shops or not eat food prepared by them The BJP's Uttar Pradesh government led by Kalyan Singh with the destruction of the Babri Masjid brought state support back to such discrimination.
Inter-community relationship does not happen regardless of community.
Inter-community marriage according to most recent polls are still viewed negatively by most Indians across every community but toleration, acceptance and instances of such marriage is on the rise and the few incidents of violence we hear about are true and have slightly increased since the prevalence of this conspiracy theory called Love Jihad but overall it has little impact on people outside states like Uttar Pradesh.
Some states had struct land reformation and some states had no practical land reformation.
Some states did fail in land reforms but I won't say that it reduced inequality to any particular extent and in many cases fragmentation of land holdings have led to problems like lack of economic capacity to use modern equipment, reluctance to forgo a parcel of their land for any developmental land. West Bengal is unable to built a critically needed highway from the North to South because people have soo small landholding that thousands would los the bulk of their land.
Migration happens from middle class, especially low inequality states to abroad,
Migration of educated people in small numbers from a poor country to a rich country is a reality the world over but it is especially true in your state Kerala where despite the educational and social advances, no prominent industry to employ the educated people exist, making them seek jobs elsewhere and the obsession of many southerners especially Tamils and Malayalis to not learn Hindi at all makes the North not a particularly appealing place to work in, encouraging migration abroad.
August 4th 1965

Twin Mountains Cafe, New Delhi

Ehsaan twirled the spoon in his teacup and let his eyes drift down the newspaper he was holding. The front page showed an image of US Army soldiers at a checkpoint near Austin, Texas. News of Dr. King's assassination as well as President Johnson's and the events that followed was something the papers in New Delhi were closely reporting.

Being born to a Muslim family during the Partition, Ehsaan felt that the experiences of Black Americans was something he could heavily relate to. He always felt as though he was a resident of India, not truly a citizen. No one in his family worked a high paying or even somewhat respectable job. His father was a grocer, his brother a shoemaker. His sister was only sixteen and it looked as though she'd end up a housewife. He worked as a waiter at the cafe for the past three months and felt a great deal of pressure to help the family finances.

The lack of opportunities was one thing Ehsaan found relatable. The informal barriers to interactions was another. The heroes of one community were the villains of the other. Neither he, nor anyone he knew, had Hindu friends. To be in a relationship with a Hindu girl was just asking for a beating. A new group of Hindu fundamentalists, the VHP, was already becoming well known to the people in his district. They formed with the mission of 'protecting Hindu culture from predation' but he noticed that this seemed to heavily involve patrolling near Muslim neighborhoods.

What African Americans had to put up with and were continuing to put up with was very familiar to him, even if there weren't technically any laws saying he couldn't go to the same movies theaters or restaurants as Hindus. Ehsaan doubted that a VHP member would kill the prime minister though.
In 1965 that is quite unrealistic. Many won't approve but a target on the back is too excessive. It was a phase where Muslims were shown by the median and government as people who are rightfully Indians and were misled by the Muslim League into partition.
 
Last edited:
Muslim discrimination to a large extent remained suppressed and contained at the personal level in the post independence years. For example many preferred to not buy from Muslim shops or not eat food prepared by them The BJP's Uttar Pradesh government led by Kalyan Singh with the destruction of the Babri Masjid brought state support back to such discrimination.

Inter-community marriage according to most recent polls are still viewed negatively by most Indians across every community but toleration, acceptance and instances of such marriage is on the rise and the few incidents of violence we hear about are true and have slightly increased since the prevalence of this conspiracy theory called Love Jihad but overall it has little impact on people outside states like Uttar Pradesh.

Some states did fail in land reforms but I won't say that it reduced inequality to any particular extent and in many cases fragmentation of land holdings have led to problems like lack of economic capacity to use modern equipment, reluctance to forgo a parcel of their land for any developmental land. West Bengal is unable to built a critically needed highway from the North to South because people have soo small landholding that thousands would los the bulk of their land.

Migration of educated people in small numbers from a poor country to a rich country is a reality the world over but it is especially true in your state Kerala where despite the educational and social advances, no prominent industry to employ the educated people exist, making them seek jobs elsewhere and the obsession of many southerners especially Tamils and Malayalis to not learn Hindi at all makes the North not a particularly appealing place to work in, encouraging migration abroad.

In 1965 that is quite unrealistic. Many won't approve but a target on the back is too excessive. It was a phase where Muslims were shown by the median and government as people who are rightfully Indians and were misled by the Muslim League into partition.

In 1965, how would a Muslim boy-Hindu girl couple be perceived? You mentioned many people wouldn't approve. I'm also aware of the Love Jihad conspiracy theory and the murders that resulted from it. So at this point in time Indian Muslims were seen as well meaning but manipulated? What changed how they're viewed?
 
In 1965, how would a Muslim boy-Hindu girl couple be perceived? You mentioned many people wouldn't approve. I'm also aware of the Love Jihad conspiracy theory and the murders that resulted from it. So at this point in time Indian Muslims were seen as well meaning but manipulated? What changed how they're viewed?
Firstly, in the most typical instances it won't be approved of by either the family of the boy or the girl. "Love marriage", where two people fall in love and marry each other was itself seen as a taboo and it was an interfaith marriage at that. They would be the subject of gossip behind their backs and except for a few instances not have a general impediment to their life. The impediments would be like many refusing to enter into transaction with Muslims, not interfaith couples in particular not in places like shops or restaurants as doing so would attract severe penalties and also go against the Hindu tradition of "Atithi Devo Bhava" or guest/customer is god. But in the big cities, there would hardly be anyone who cares about them and in rural India they could be seen with some suspicion for some time, gradually being accepted. The kind of violence witnessed in the aftermath of the Love Jihad conspiracy theory is unheard of although isolated instances of honor killing did occur, but were mostly directed at a lower caste man marrying an upper caste woman.

Indian government and cinema in the 50s and 60s portrayed Muslims as misled and was self-consciously secular in its attempts to make the Muslim minority feel accepted and socially secure. This secularism of Indian Cinema was practically reflecting the secularism of the state, which was at best patronizing. (Interestingly in many cinemas, Muslims were often shown as good natured drunks, as Christians have nothing in the Bible to discourage drinking) Southern cinema in movies like Moodu Padam and Chemeen started to move towards portraying inter-communal relationships as they were largely unaffected by partition.

After the 1971 Indo-Pak war, portraying Pakistan as the enemy became common place, who are the Pakistanis, Muslims but any portrayal self-consciously showed Indian Muslims as loyal like showing an Indian Soldier, who is Muslim by faith. But after Kashmir grabbed popular attention and since the Rise of the Hindu nationalist organizations like VHP(RSS is the most prominent face of Hindu Nationalists is now actually tamest group of the pack, they have made strides in increasing their appeal amongst the lower castes and also Muslims of lower casts, yes Indian Muslims have a caste system too) the Muslims are now being showed as terrorists, gangsters and despots and to avoid being labelled as bigots, they throw in some loyal and oppressed Muslims, who are shown as being protected by the state patronizingly. It is in a way similar to Hollywood in many cases showing terrorists as non-white. BJP alone can't be blamed although it plays a large role in this recent change in government attitude towards Muslims, as they get about 20% of the Muslim vote at the federal level through reforms targeting the Muslims and even carved out 8% of the Muslim votes in a state like Uttar Pradesh where the BJP's election campaign primarily focused on "hostile" minorities and development. The rise of this anti Muslim sentiment is also a result of a reaction against decades of treating the Muslims as an easy vote bank and policies to supposedly appease them however these policies never aimed or attempted to socially advance them.​
 
This is also around the period France withdraws from N.A.T.O. Something tells me, Humphrey, not having Lyndon's ego, might be able to avert that. I don't know
 
Chapter 12
Chapter 12: For Past Damages

Chapter 12: For Past Damages

As the lawsuit against the Alabama state government for the monthlong internment policy took shape, another burgeoning court case was starting to get attention.

It would soon be forty-five years since the Tulsa Race Massacre and the city's black population felt that despite initially making headlines back in the 1920s had largely faded from memory. Survivors were not compensated nor was there any for the loss in lives or property.

The current atmosphere convinced many that the time to stay silent had ended. Photographs of the devastation largely kept from the public eye in the decades following the massacre began appearing in newspapers and on TV throughout the country as the lawsuit picked up steam. Legal analysts gave their predictions on how it might play out, with one from Harvard being interviewed by Cronkite in September of 1965. The analyst noted that the elapsed time between the massacre itself and the lawsuit could complicate things but 'there is plenty of evidence that can help the case of the plaintiffs, burial and hospital records as well as photos."

When Cronkite asked for further details, the analyst explained that the case against Alabama's state government had an advantage in that the pool of potential witnesses was so large and the case was filed so soon after the internment was ended by force. "We also have a clearly provable chain of command in how the internment was ordered and organized. We have arrival records, reports from prison staff to Montgomery."

In the meantime, the black community became the target of intimidation by those who wanted the massacre to be brushed under the rug for good. Leaflets warning those who witnessed it not to testify were scattered while many who were children of survivors received threatening phone messages telling them not to 'blab and cause trouble for themselves.' Those who sought to testify were forced to purchase anti burglary systems, guard dogs or even hire private security if they could do so.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

September 4th 1965

Ali Residence, Chicago

Muhammad wiped down his face with a towel. He was showering when his wife Sonji pounded on the door telling him Robert was calling. She handed him the reciever.

"Did I call at a bad time?" Robert asked.

"Depends on the news, Robbie."

"I shook a few trees to see who could help us with our uh 'project'. There's an up and coming labor activist named Ralph Nader who's prepping a report on GM's cars. I'm told he's a real go getter."

"Nice."

"That's not all. I'm not sure about this lead but we might have an unexpected ally who can help us put together the start up capital we need."

"And who'd that be?"

"Fred Trump Jr."

To be continued...
 
Top