If bison aren't included as a domesticated animal, will the natives adopt Eurasian cattle and horses post-contact, and how will this affect the native culture? I'm well aware that horses became widespread and popular in the Plains, but cattle, not so much for some reason.
A Pre-Columbian North American Timeline Planning Thread
- Thread starter Tempered Zen
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If bison aren't included as a domesticated animal, will the natives adopt Eurasian cattle and horses post-contact, and how will this affect the native culture? I'm well aware that horses became widespread and popular in the Plains, but cattle, not so much for some reason.
Yeah, I've noticed that a lot too. The same goes for most other alternate history scenarios. The everyday lives of people are usually neglected in favor of war and politics. Not like that stuff isn't important, and it is especially important when you're building civilizations from scratch, but there would be no civilizations if there weren't humans in the first place. I think it's something we tend to forget when we're dealing with history.
Definitely. I plan to cover those three topics in detail. Especially food. By the time this timeline is over, I'll have enough recipes to make a cookbook.
I don't want to spoil too much, but yes, they'll have their own herbs and seasonings. There'll also be a lucrative spice and pepper trade with Mesoamerica.
Interesting, but wasn't mole a post-Columbian invention?
If they don't domesticate bison (but they will), horses and cows would be adopted, but it'll be too late in the grand scheme of things to actually matter. Cows wouldn't be too widely adopted in the northeast, because they'll have a better domesticate suited to their mostly riverine agriculture, the moose. Their use will be restricted to the European settlers in the region. In a "no bison" scenario however, they'd be adopted widely in the south, where moose aren't readily available.
Horses on the other hand, will spread across the continent, albeit a little slower. I'll save my plans for the timeline, but the conquistadors are going to find a nasty surprise when they hit the Plains.
Does anyone have any sources on the Yuchi language? I want to do something cool with them for the timeline, but it's been a pain trying to find any resources on the language.
a Mole like sauce could be independently be the Mesoamericans of this timeline. Also how will Chocolate be prepared can Maple sugar sweeten the Chocolate like other forms of sugar.
Being a tropical citizen i have never tried maple sugar
but from what i listened, we could use in this caseI'm somewhat familiar with grammar rules and word order (or as familiar as one can get from a Wikipedia article), but I need more information, and a lexicon would be nice.
That's true. If it is invented, it'll probably be restricted to Mesoamerica though. Maybe it could even gain popularity with the Taino. We'll see.
The Mesoamericans (unfortunately) won't invent chocolate. Cacao use will be restricted to use as currency (it'll become pretty important in the Circum-Caribbean) and for making cacahuatl. I could see some wealthy merchants mixing maple mead with cacahuatl, but I'm not sure whether the taste of such a drink would be pleasant.
Being a tropical citizen i have never tried maple sugar
*gasps in utter shock and terror*
BLASPHEMY!
In all seriousness, if you ever get the opportunity to try anything maple related, you should do it. The stuff is amazing.
https://glosbe.com/en/yuc
Generally when i want to know some word in native languages i go to this site, is somewhat incomplete but fill the role
https://www.omniglot.com/writing/yuchi.htm
I think that this also can help you
From all the amero-canadians cartoons and series that are transmitted here in the tropics, usually talk about maple as if it were a wonder. Unfortunately i never had the chance to try it, but the will is big
I have one or two PDFs which have grammars on Yuchi (forget how old they are, one I know is from the 40s/50s and might be legally available in full) plus there's Google Books which has some nice previews on some more texts (although the one I'm thinking of is just a history/archaeology book).
Here's a large folder of grammars for a whole bunch of stuff: https://mega.nz/#F!x4VG3DRL!lqecF4q2ywojGLE0O8cu4A
Here's the subfolder for North American isolates; it's got 2 or 3 Yuchi grammars and the latest is from the 90s: https://mega.nz/#F!x4VG3DRL!lqecF4q2ywojGLE0O8cu4A!5kM3RCZY
Here's the subfolder for North American isolates; it's got 2 or 3 Yuchi grammars and the latest is from the 90s: https://mega.nz/#F!x4VG3DRL!lqecF4q2ywojGLE0O8cu4A!5kM3RCZY
Thanks, though I've already tried those sources. Unfortunately Glosbe only has five phrases translated. Omniglot is pretty useful though.
From all the amero-canadians cartoons and series that are transmitted here in the tropics, usually talk about maple as if it were a wonder. Unfortunately i never had the chance to try it, but the will is big
Well, the cartoons aren't wrong. I lived in the Caribbean until I was six, and I remember seeing American cartoons and being skeptical about maple syrup being all that great. Now, I can't imagine what my life would be like without maple syrup. Lol.
If you can, can you send me a link?
Oh my god, I think I hit the Holy Grail. I screamed when I saw the amount of information in those folders. How am I just now discovering this? Thanks a million times!
Question is their enough information on The Algonquin languages to make all the names need for the timeline? Also what will happen to the Uto Aztecan languages and other family's.
Actually, exists a complete dictionary of Algonquin going from A to Z.
Yes, there is plenty of information on Algonquian scattered throughout the web. It is one of the most well studied Native American languages, and I consider myself lucky I got to work with Algonquian. Unfortunately there isn't a lot of easily accessible information on several other North American languages.
The Uto-Aztecan languages will exist, but there will be no Nahua migration into Mesoamerica. There'll be more Uto-Aztecans in the Plains though, and we might see a Uto-Aztecan migration or two into some unexpected regions.
As for other language families, I don't want to spoil too much. Let's just say the language families will be very different from OTL.
wait wait wait
If the spanish will get a surprise upon arriving at the plains.....
AZTEC PROTOCAVALRYMEN WILL BE REAL
What kind of writing system will appear if writing had been invented before European arrival?
In OTL, the Ojibwa and Cree (both Algonquian languages) had the Canadian Aboriginal syllabics (actually an abugida despite the name, according to Wikipedia), while the Cherokee created a syllabary. But, both those scripts were invented during the 1800's OTL, long after Europeans firmly established themselves in North America.
Whether you were planning an alphabet (like Latin), a syllabary (like Japanese), or even a featural script (like Korean), you could make one script for each language family, rather than one for each individual language. Suppose one group of Algonquian speakers invented their own writing system, and that script quickly spreads across the land to be written in other Algonquian languages, until people speaking a completely different language family saw the script and decided to make a new one that's compatible with their own language family. Differences might be minor (compare Latin, Greek and Cyrillic) or completely different (compare Korean and Japanese). Then there's the reading directions, you could go left-to-right like Latin, or right-to-left like Arabic, horizontal like the former two, or vertical like Mongolian.
Lol, but no, as awesome as that would be.
Not far from what I had in mind. Two different writing systems will be invented, with other writing systems branching off from these two. One will be invented by the Proto-Algonquians, and the other will be invented by the Siouans. The former will be utilized by Algonquian speakers and neighboring peoples, primarily in the North, while the later will be utilized by Siouans, Iroquoians, Yuchians, and Caddoans (so basically the members of the proposed Macro-Siouan hypothesis). I'll cover them in detail in the timeline.
Interesting ideas. Very similar to what I have in mind for the spread of writing. Variations in the scripts will mostly be minor, but there'll be some writing systems that'll have major variations from their parent system, a la Japan.
Aaaaaaaaaaaa, but this would be so amazing
, the spanish never would come back again at the plains after that experience