A Matter of National Security
- Thread starter HistoryBossMan
- Start date
Depending on NIH, in 36/37 you could easily buy,
Switzerland Oerlikon 20 mm/70 (0.79")
Sweden 25 mm akan L/64 Model 1932
France Hotchkiss 25 mm
United Kingdom / Britain 2-pdr [4 cm/39 (1.575")] QF Mark VIII
Sweden 40 mm L/60 Model 1936
Or speed up and convert an air gun 37 mm Automatic Gun, M4(T9) or French 20mm HS.404?
How much hindsight is allowable....
Considering the fact that the 37 mm caliber was the standard for US light cannon, I think something like the 37 mm Gun M1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/37_mm_Gun_M1) would be the most likely option. There were a number of 37 mm autocannon designs floating around in the US at the start of the war, and several saw service before that entire medium AAA role was subsumed by the Bofors guns. From what I can find, the 37 mm Gun M1 was basically a Browning recoil-operated machine gun scaled up for 37 x 223mmSR. This particular design was from the early 1920s, after Browning scaled up his machine gun to .50 cal for anti-tank use, but had been shelved by the Army until the late 1930s because of the funding situation. Compared to the Bofors gun, the Browning AAA uses a much smaller cartridge so velocity and performance were not as good.
Geon
Donor
Based on what you are saying here there either needs to be a private or national effort to develop a national nutrition and health program to create a larger manpower pool. Otherwise all this new updated equipment is going to be absolutely worthless.
Which I agree with, slower build up leads to fewer problems in any war, as things get better testing before combat and people are killed. I was one hundred percent behind you, just thought to comment.
No, they have guns, these are just surplus to go into their stockpiles
Part 0009
February 4th, 1937
Chief of Staff of the United States Army Malin Craig submits a memo to Roosevelt and Congress. After reading report after report about men who'd been turned away due to health problems, Craig realized that one of the main problems to American rearmament was the malnutrition experienced by her young men who grew up during the Depression. Rosevelt also realizes that this is a huge problem and he has his Brain Trust meet with leading health officials in the country to come up with a solution. 6 of the new Brooklyn-class cruisers, which had been launched from the drydocks on January 1st, are commissioned into service. The Navy orders two new cruisers, St. Louis and Helena. The construction on Honolulu nears completion.
February 19th, 1937
The Navy begins live-fire exercises. With money in the coffers, the Navy finally allows a live torpedo test. The results are less than impressive. The subs were firing at a stationary pre-WW1 armored cruiser, and the shots missed completely, exploded too early, or they hit and still didn't explode. Finally, one of the torpedos struck and exploded. BuOrd got many angry memos from the Navy's higherups telling them to fix this problem.
March 1st, 1937
The Army begins its own exercises. The 7th Cavalry Brigade accepts its 50th M2 Light tank.
Felix Valters waited in the line that stretched through the main street of Wellsboro, Pennslyvania. This was almost a bread line, but not quite. Felix had memories of standing in those long bread lines with his mom or dad, waiting for what little food was left. Not anymore. This was a line that leads to a surplus of food. The government had stepped in and created a National Food Bank, and through imports or through farmers (he didn't know which), they were now distributing food all across America in an effort to reduce the health effects caused by the Depression. The line inched forward. It was just him this time, his parents were both working now that jobs had come back even to a town like Wellsboro. His siblings were off doing whatever. Being the oldest, he took it upon himself to bring in some food. The line continued to move forward to the stand. Soon, it was his turn. He walked up to the National Guardsmen crewing the stand.
"Last name?" the one on the right asked
"Uh, Valters," Felix answered.
The guy checked off a box on the clipboard he was holding and then nodded to the other Guardsman. He walked over to one of the trucks and came back with a crate. He handed it over to Felix. He grunted under the weight, but he held it.
"If you don't mind me asking..." Felix begin.
"Move to the side," the guy who brought him the crate ordered.
Felix obligated him, and another person took his place. "So, what's in this?"
"Beef, some fruits, some vegetables, and some milk."
"Oh, how does it all stay fresh?"
"You got an icebox at home?" the guy asked. Felix nodded.
The guy continued, "Well, its like that, but for the whole back of the truck. And the whole process from farm to you is as quick as possible. Got it?" Felix nodded again and then started to walk back home.
"Hey kid," called the guy with the clipboard, "How old are you?"
"Sixteen, I turn seventeen in 2 weeks," Felix answered.
"Ever thought about joining the National Guard?" Felix just shrugged. The guy said," Well, think about it."
"Sure," Felix said, and with that, he started to walk back home.
Chief of Staff of the United States Army Malin Craig submits a memo to Roosevelt and Congress. After reading report after report about men who'd been turned away due to health problems, Craig realized that one of the main problems to American rearmament was the malnutrition experienced by her young men who grew up during the Depression. Rosevelt also realizes that this is a huge problem and he has his Brain Trust meet with leading health officials in the country to come up with a solution. 6 of the new Brooklyn-class cruisers, which had been launched from the drydocks on January 1st, are commissioned into service. The Navy orders two new cruisers, St. Louis and Helena. The construction on Honolulu nears completion.
February 19th, 1937
The Navy begins live-fire exercises. With money in the coffers, the Navy finally allows a live torpedo test. The results are less than impressive. The subs were firing at a stationary pre-WW1 armored cruiser, and the shots missed completely, exploded too early, or they hit and still didn't explode. Finally, one of the torpedos struck and exploded. BuOrd got many angry memos from the Navy's higherups telling them to fix this problem.
March 1st, 1937
The Army begins its own exercises. The 7th Cavalry Brigade accepts its 50th M2 Light tank.
Felix Valters waited in the line that stretched through the main street of Wellsboro, Pennslyvania. This was almost a bread line, but not quite. Felix had memories of standing in those long bread lines with his mom or dad, waiting for what little food was left. Not anymore. This was a line that leads to a surplus of food. The government had stepped in and created a National Food Bank, and through imports or through farmers (he didn't know which), they were now distributing food all across America in an effort to reduce the health effects caused by the Depression. The line inched forward. It was just him this time, his parents were both working now that jobs had come back even to a town like Wellsboro. His siblings were off doing whatever. Being the oldest, he took it upon himself to bring in some food. The line continued to move forward to the stand. Soon, it was his turn. He walked up to the National Guardsmen crewing the stand.
"Last name?" the one on the right asked
"Uh, Valters," Felix answered.
The guy checked off a box on the clipboard he was holding and then nodded to the other Guardsman. He walked over to one of the trucks and came back with a crate. He handed it over to Felix. He grunted under the weight, but he held it.
"If you don't mind me asking..." Felix begin.
"Move to the side," the guy who brought him the crate ordered.
Felix obligated him, and another person took his place. "So, what's in this?"
"Beef, some fruits, some vegetables, and some milk."
"Oh, how does it all stay fresh?"
"You got an icebox at home?" the guy asked. Felix nodded.
The guy continued, "Well, its like that, but for the whole back of the truck. And the whole process from farm to you is as quick as possible. Got it?" Felix nodded again and then started to walk back home.
"Hey kid," called the guy with the clipboard, "How old are you?"
"Sixteen, I turn seventeen in 2 weeks," Felix answered.
"Ever thought about joining the National Guard?" Felix just shrugged. The guy said," Well, think about it."
"Sure," Felix said, and with that, he started to walk back home.
I question your dates (speed up first 6 and slow down last 2?) and use of drydocks not slips?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn-class_cruiser#Brooklyn-class_ships
OTL, the last two cruisers were laid down in 1936, ITTL there was no new ship building throughout 1936, only completing ships that had been ordered before the new London Agreement
But why with more money they would start more (that are anyway allowed by previous treaty and only match IJN/RN ships already started) not less and speeding up ships is only really possible with uneconomical inefficient overtime bills that only make sense in an emergency war or build up to war?
In order to keep the status quo. ITTL 1936, the navy couldn’t build new ships, just complete ones already laid down before the POD, but now in ITTL 1937, the gloves are off and the Navy can build as many ships as it wants
I agree with the status quo but that would not include speeding up ships as that would cost lost of money are require new contracts for overtime etc, its more provocative than just laying down two more ships as OTL on slow peacetime contracts?
As to the Gloves off,
The next fun is that USN could legitimately start without any threatening expansion is to replace all the 10 Omaha class cruisers, using old LNT age rule two can be laid down for replacement in 1934 (1918+16 ) and laid down three years earlier ie 1931 and 8 in 1937 for 1940 (1920+20)? The 10 added up to 70,000t of the 143,500 tons 1LNT tonnage and then the first 7 OTL Brooklyn (CL40-43,46-48) filled the rest.....
Therefore 7 more Brooklyn rather than the two of OTL (CL 49-50) is perfectly reasonable if you have the cash and would per very normal with a plan that you are replacing/scraping the Omaha's in 1940.....
Gloves off would be even larger and a number of 8" sisters to Wichita (CA 45) if you want to really send a message to IJN but I think 4-6 BBs would do that better.
Don't forget to order Wasp as a Yorktown class carrier and order Hornet early and add another 2 or 3 members of the class to that order as well.
I dont think you can due to the POD date and without breaking the 1LNT (technically she did anyway due to L&S weight) or delaying her.
With hindsight building a CVE prototype instead and delaying her by till Jan 37 so she can be a Yorktown is the better plan but its a hard sell, maybe swaps her for the extra CLs you can legally LD in 36?
Part 0010
March 2nd, 1937. Fort Sill, Oklahoma
The artillery battery fired as one. 105mm shells landed either on or around the target. The colonel watching them nodded in approval. The new 105's had come down from Rock Island the day before and now the old 75 crews had to be trained on them. The new pieces were not only powerful, but they were also accurate to an end. The old 75s had been gifted to the National Guard stockpiles. The colonel watched as the men loaded in new shells and increased the range by 500 yards. The men were supposed to have the new M1's as their sidearms, but the rifles were piled next to the shells. When asked why he was told that they were too heavy and cumbersome to be lugging around all the time. All of that would go into his final report, but for now, he watched the guns fire again.
April 5th, 1937
The Imperial Japanese Navy continue with their Circle Plans, starting Circle Three. The final objective was for the completion of two new battleships, two new carriers, as well as 64 new warships. The plan also called for rearming and refitting older battleships. The two new Tone-class cruisers which were already under construction had their main batteries upgraded from 6-inch to 8-inch guns.
May 3rd, 1937
The cruisers USS Omaha and USS Richmond are transferred to the Asiatic Fleet. FDR faces backlash from isolationists for this move, who say that he's openly trying to inflame tensions with Japan.
May 4th, 1937. Wilbur Wright Field, Ohio
The Air Corps, after pumping money into Boeing since they were pleased with the bomber design, test the new variant of the B-17. The new plane which was designated as the B-17B had larger rudders and flaps. The old gun blisters had been replaced with new flush oval-shaped openings and a single "bathtub" style gondola on the lower fuselage*.
May 6th, 1937. Boeing Plant 2, Seattle Washington
The riveter wiped the sweat off his face and went back to putting rivets into the sheet metal of the bomber. The plant had been busy for the past two days filling in the Air Corps order. He wasn't complaining though, more work meant a less chance of being laid off and now that he had a newborn, being laid off would've been a disaster. Word down the grapevine was that they'd either be getting a raise, or a new plant would be opened. As far as the riveter was concerned, more money was better, but the status quo was good enough, and if more people had jobs then the city would be getting back on the ling road towards prosperity.
*= OTl, these changes came on the B-17C variant, but with more money to fuel advancements, they come sooner.
The artillery battery fired as one. 105mm shells landed either on or around the target. The colonel watching them nodded in approval. The new 105's had come down from Rock Island the day before and now the old 75 crews had to be trained on them. The new pieces were not only powerful, but they were also accurate to an end. The old 75s had been gifted to the National Guard stockpiles. The colonel watched as the men loaded in new shells and increased the range by 500 yards. The men were supposed to have the new M1's as their sidearms, but the rifles were piled next to the shells. When asked why he was told that they were too heavy and cumbersome to be lugging around all the time. All of that would go into his final report, but for now, he watched the guns fire again.
April 5th, 1937
The Imperial Japanese Navy continue with their Circle Plans, starting Circle Three. The final objective was for the completion of two new battleships, two new carriers, as well as 64 new warships. The plan also called for rearming and refitting older battleships. The two new Tone-class cruisers which were already under construction had their main batteries upgraded from 6-inch to 8-inch guns.
May 3rd, 1937
The cruisers USS Omaha and USS Richmond are transferred to the Asiatic Fleet. FDR faces backlash from isolationists for this move, who say that he's openly trying to inflame tensions with Japan.
May 4th, 1937. Wilbur Wright Field, Ohio
The Air Corps, after pumping money into Boeing since they were pleased with the bomber design, test the new variant of the B-17. The new plane which was designated as the B-17B had larger rudders and flaps. The old gun blisters had been replaced with new flush oval-shaped openings and a single "bathtub" style gondola on the lower fuselage*.
May 6th, 1937. Boeing Plant 2, Seattle Washington
The riveter wiped the sweat off his face and went back to putting rivets into the sheet metal of the bomber. The plant had been busy for the past two days filling in the Air Corps order. He wasn't complaining though, more work meant a less chance of being laid off and now that he had a newborn, being laid off would've been a disaster. Word down the grapevine was that they'd either be getting a raise, or a new plant would be opened. As far as the riveter was concerned, more money was better, but the status quo was good enough, and if more people had jobs then the city would be getting back on the ling road towards prosperity.
*= OTl, these changes came on the B-17C variant, but with more money to fuel advancements, they come sooner.
That’s true, but of course, better equipment doesn’t necessarily mean a better initial war record