A Matter of National Security

[HistoryBossMan]

March 8th, 1936. White House

Franklin Delano Roosevelt rubbed his eyes. It had been a long day of being bombarded by questions from the press on what he thought about the Germans marching back into the Rhineland. Naturally, he followed the official line of aloofness and noninterference. After dealing with the Great Depression and now being in the recovery period, the last thing that Congress or the American people wanted was foreign entanglements. Privately, Roosevelt had doubts. Letting Hitler take back the Rhineland seemed like that would be the springboard for further conflict. The massive rallies at Nuremberg, the book burnings, Hitler seemed like the type of person who would ask and ask for more and then lash out when told no.
Franklin began to think more intently about the German issue. Right now, the world was waiting for what the French would do. And should war begin, it seemed likely that America would be drawn in like last time. The United States was not prepared for war. They weren't in 1917 and had to learn on the fly. In hindsight, cutting defense spending was a bad idea. Roosevelt remembered that conversation he'd had with MacArthur. MacArthur had yelled in his face about losing the next war and "an American boy, lying in the mud with an enemy bayonet through his belly and an enemy foot on his dying throat." That image didn't want to leave his head, it was instead magnified. By 10. By 1,000. By 10,000. Roosevelt gripped the side of his wheelchair, roughly exhaling. He gulped and took in a shaky breath. It was set now, anything he could do to make sure that image never came to fruition he would.

March 9th, 1936

The French government issues a statement about "reaffirming the territorial integrity of France and Belgium," making it clear that they'd defend Western Europe from German aggression but also allowing the Germans to take back the Rhineland

March 10th. 1936

Roosevelt and his brain trust begin to formulate a bill that'll increase funding for the Amry, Navy, and Air Corps.

 

[HistoryBossMan]

Hey everyone, longtime lurker brand new member here. So I've decided to post a timeline about something that fascinates me, a more prepared US for WW2. I hope this venture goes well for everyone involved. Criticism welcomed. Also, this will be written in the same manner as Keynes' Cruisers because I quite like the way fester wrote his TL.

 

[HistoryBossMan]

March 20, 1936

FDR's "National Security and Defense Act" passes Congress. Most of the money for the act came from the Public Works Administration, which had a budget of 3.3 billion for the first two years of its existence. Now, its budget had been slashed down to 1.3 billion. 1.5 billion dollars were split evenly between the Army and Navy, who would begin to take stock, clean house, and start training. Due to the treaties signed back in 1922 and 1930, the Navy was limited on what it could do, and until they expired on December 31st, 1936, the Navy was between a rock and a hard place. Its share of the money would be used to refit and modernize its existing ships. The Army for its part was allowed to create two new "square" infantry divisions and could finally use the CCC as a jumping-off point for recruiting and training. The infantry and cavalry got joint control over the tank branch. Both outfits also began to modernize their existing Air components. The rest of the money was funneled into businesses and companies for them to build new weapons factories so that people could have new jobs.

March 21, 1936

With new orders from FDR, the US representatives at London for the second naval treaty work on convincing the British and French representatives to scrap the whole idea. Their argument was twofold, the first was since both Italy and Japan had already withdrawn from the conference there was no reason for the three countries to handicap themselves, and the second was that the two previous treaties were due to expire by the end of the year and until it expired, no new ships would be built. When 1937 came around though, the gloves were off.

March 26th, 1936

5 days of intense arguing, negotiating, and conceding, the British and French representatives finally agreed to the points made by the US delegates. The British and French still had bad memories of the Kaiser's naval escapades, and they also had territories in the Pacific that could come under threat by the Japanese. At the end of the day, fear and propaganda fueled the decision to abandon the second conference altogether.

 

[Unknown]

Good start; wondering where you take this...

 

[jsb]

FDR's "National Security and Defense Act" passes Congress. Most of the money for the act came from the Public Works Administration, which had a budget of 3.3 billion for the first two years of its existence. Now, its budget had been slashed down to 1.3 billion. 1.5 billion dollars were split evenly between the Army and Navy, who would begin to take stock, clean house, and start training

I think that's a rather large POD, will be cool but a massive change over OTL......even just discrete support would have huge changes so far out for USA going 1.5B$ in 36 means US is ready for war in 39 and probably means a willingness to actually deploy?

1.5 billion dollars were split evenly between the Army and Navy, who would begin to take stock, clean house, and start training. Due to the treaties signed back in 1922 and 1930, the Navy was limited on what it could do, and until they expired on December 31st, 1936, the Navy was between a rock and a hard place. Its share of the money would be used to refit and modernize its existing ships.

Plenty of stuff you can buy immediately without going against LNT, USN had spare and overage tonnage for CLs/DDs not even thinking about support ships like fast oilers or more CG cutters, if you have the will its easy to be far better. Even buying the long lead time items for ships you can start next year is perfectly legal and would massively speed up the BB/CV construction post 36....

March 21, 1936

With new orders from FDR, the US representatives at London for the second naval treaty work on convincing the British and French representatives to scrap the whole idea. Their argument was twofold, the first was since both Italy and Japan had already withdrawn from the conference there was no reason for the three countries to handicap themselves, and the second was that the two previous treaties were due to expire by the end of the year and until it expired, no new ships would be built. When 1937 came around though, the gloves were off.

March 26th, 1936

5 days of intense arguing, negotiating, and conceding, the British and French representatives finally agreed to the points made by the US delegates. The British and French still had bad memories of the Kaiser's naval escapades, and they also had territories in the Pacific that could come under threat by the Japanese. At the end of the day, fear and propaganda fueled the decision to abandon the second conference altogether.

I would question if they would not keep a 2LNT just make it weaker than OTL the advantages of repeating the "rules" (that at least got publicly accepted by many other nation that did not actually sign them so they had to pretend to follow like OTL from Axis) are worth it, you also might as well agree that the battleship (and have others for other classes CVs/CAs/CLs/DDs) escalator clause in simply set for immediate use on 1 Jan 37 and it cost you nothing apart from making it harder for the future Axis to plan agaisnt you?

Anyway looking forward to more!

 

[HistoryBossMan]

I think that's a rather large POD, will be cool but a massive change over OTL......even just discrete support would have huge changes so far out for USA going 1.5B$ in 36 means US is ready for war in 39 and probably means a willingness to actually deploy?

Yes, this is a rather large allotment of funds to the military, but my basic idea is that these funds will at first be used to simply modernize and equip the US armed forces. Apart from the two new divisions that the Army is raising, most of the money is beings to make sure that the men actually have guns and that there's no training with wood stocks like OTL. The same goes for the Navy, most of their money is being used to make sure the ships are able to fight. And the 2 billion is a roof, should there be leftover money that neither side needs, then Congress will distribute that money back into the New Deal programs

Plenty of stuff you can buy immediately without going against LNT, USN had spare and overage tonnage for CLs/DDs not even thinking about support ships like fast oilers or more CG cutters, if you have the will its easy to be far better. Even buying the long lead time items for ships you can start next year is perfectly legal and would massively speed up the BB/CV construction post 36....

Yeah, I should have made this more clear, but the Navy will start building new oilers and cutters. The reason that they won't build anything more than that is because of the deal made in London.

I would question if they would not keep a 2LNT just make it weaker than OTL the advantages of repeating the "rules" (that at least got publicly accepted by many other nation that did not actually sign them so they had to pretend to follow like OTL from Axis) are worth it, you also might as well agree that the battleship (and have others for other classes CVs/CAs/CLs/DDs) escalator clause in simply set for immediate use on 1 Jan 37 and it cost you nothing apart from making it harder for the future Axis to plan agaisnt you?

My idea for that is that the whole thing just peters out and there is no more talk about another naval conference. Britain, France, and the US simply have to wait until the year ends and then they can start building new warships. There's no reason to sign another treaty since that treaty will end being useless in the near future. And with simply abandoning the treaty, the 3 manage to throw off Japan and Italy who're expecting another restricting treaty.

Anyway looking forward to more!

Thank you. I'll try to keep posts coming and consistent

 

[HistoryBossMan]

April 3rd, 1936. CCC Camp Roosevelt, Virginia

Matthew Turner focused on the sweaty back of the person in front of him. He'd been doing that for the last mile to take his mind off the fact that he was tired and in pain. He woke up this morning and was lined up in neat rows in front of an Army major who'd informed them that today would be a training day. Jumping jacks were followed by sit-ups who were then followed by push-ups. That was nothing compared to the crown jewel, a run through the forest. By now, many people had been left behind so that they could catch their breath. Matthew would've been one of them, but he'd managed to completely forget about the run. The guy in front had what looked to be a birthmark on his lower right side. He also had scratches running down his back. Focusing on that seemed like an easier thing than thinking about how much he had run and how much he would have to continue running. Finally, he could see the entrance to the camp over the horizon. Just a few more feet to go and he could stop. After coming to a walk and then stopping, Matthew looked around to see that he was one of the about 20 people who'd finished the run first.
The Army captain that had been leading them nodded. "Good job," he said and then went off to talk to the major. Matthew didn't really care about what the army thought, what he cared about was getting some water. Throughout the rest of the day, the last stragglers found their way back to the camp. The major then talked to them about volunteering for the army and how their nation needed them. Maybe about 10 people went to the examination camp that had been put up. Out of those 10, 2 were accepted into the Army. The major didn't even seem mad, after all, this was just day 1.

April 9th, 1936

The Navy orders the construction of 5 new fast oil tankers*.


*=OTL Cimarron-class oilers, but simply built early ITTL

 

[perfectgeneral]

More potential Sangamon class escort carriers.

 

[jsb]

More potential Sangamon class escort carriers.

I dont think they will need them, with this level of spending they will order a second batch of Yorktown's in early 37, say even Wasp (CV7) might be cut and simply replaced with 4+ more Yorktown's started in Jan 37s, as they are abandoning the treaties? Add a few or 6 early NCs and the need for emergency ships like CVEs will be far less.......

There is also the small matter of refitting all the Wickes & Clemson ready as as escorts.....with funds they would be or replaced with new ships.....

 

[perfectgeneral]

More "Yorktown"s will boost Fleet Carriers, but there would still be a shortfall in Escort Carriers. No way would a full CV be wasted on escort duty in the mid-Atlantic.

 

[jsb]

No way would a full CV be wasted on escort duty in the mid-Atlantic.

The mid Atlantic will be won in 40/41 by the 120 RN Wickes & Clemson newly refurbished escort conversions give in 1940 in the bases for DD deal before USN enters the war?

That and the huge USN air search PYB force and picket DDs publicly warning of any hostile ships operating in the Pan-American Security Zone.

 

[perfectgeneral]

The mid Atlantic will be won in 40/41 by the 120 RN Wickes & Clemson newly refurbished escort conversions give in 1940 in the bases for DD deal before USN enters the war?

That and the huge USN air search PYB force and picket DDs publicly warning of any hostile ships operating in the Pan-American Security Zone.

Yeah, I suppose it would in the Hollywood movie, but the Battle of the Atlantic isn't that easily won.

 

[HistoryBossMan]

May 1st, 1936

The pilot brought down the Curtiss Hawk Model 75 to the landing strip. It had handled beautifully and the men from the Army Air Corps who were watching were also impressed. The Corps had biplanes and it also had monoplanes but those were now reaching obsolescence, and with new sleek metal monoplanes like the German's 109, there was no reason to handicap themselves by flying inferior planes. The fighters weren't the only thing they had to modernize, bombers and transport planes would follow, but for now, the new Curtiss fighter would make a wonderful addition to the Corps. On May 2nd, the government gave Curtiss-Wright a contract for 200 new aircraft.

May 5th, 1936

A new factory is opened in Detroit, this one for producing trucks for the military.

May 8th, 1936

The first production model for the new M1 Garand is successfully tested for defects and accuracy. The next day, Springfield Armory begins machine production of the rifle at a rate of 10 a day. Deliveries to the Army are expected to begin by the end of the month.

 

[perfectgeneral]

May 8th, 1936

The first production model for the new M1 Garand is successfully tested for defects and accuracy. The next day, Springfield Armory begins machine production of the rifle at a rate of 10 a day. Deliveries to the Army are expected to begin by the end of the month.

How is this brought forward, a larger test batch in May 1934 or staying with the .276 Pedersen round? It seems like you could start the Pedersen Garand at once.So how many extra test models would be required to get trials completed by the dates you bring forward a year? Were there any late changes not driven by corrections to field conditions?

https://www.thoughtco.com/world-war-ii-m1-garand-2361245

Spoiler: two paras

Easily defeating the Pedersen, the .276 Garand was recommended for production on January 4, 1932. Shortly thereafter, Garand successfully retested the .30-06 model.


Upon hearing the results, the Secretary of War and Army Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur, who did not favor reducing calibers, ordered work to stop on the .276 and that all resources be directed to improving the .30-06 model. On August 3, 1933, Garand's rifle was re-designated Semi-Automatic Rifle, Caliber 30, M1. In May of the following year, 75 of the new rifles were issued for testing. Though numerous problems were reported with the new weapon, Garand was able to correct them and the rifle was able to be standardized on January 9, 1936, with the first production model cleared on July 21, 1937.

Are these trucks 6x6, 6x4 or 4x4 and how much weight are they rated to carry?

Time is money, but haste makes waste. A rushed rearmament will make some less than ideal choices.

 

[HistoryBossMan]

How is this brought forward, a larger test batch in May 1934 or staying with the .276 Pedersen round? It seems like you could start the Pedersen Garand at once.So how many extra test models would be required to get trials completed by the dates you bring forward a year? Were there any late changes not driven by corrections to field conditions?

https://www.thoughtco.com/world-war-ii-m1-garand-2361245

Spoiler: two paras

Easily defeating the Pedersen, the .276 Garand was recommended for production on January 4, 1932. Shortly thereafter, Garand successfully retested the .30-06 model.


Upon hearing the results, the Secretary of War and Army Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur, who did not favor reducing calibers, ordered work to stop on the .276 and that all resources be directed to improving the .30-06 model. On August 3, 1933, Garand's rifle was re-designated Semi-Automatic Rifle, Caliber 30, M1. In May of the following year, 75 of the new rifles were issued for testing. Though numerous problems were reported with the new weapon, Garand was able to correct them and the rifle was able to be standardized on January 9, 1936, with the first production model cleared on July 21, 1937.

Well no, with the extra money that the military has, work is done on the Garand to make it ready for them to use a year early.

 

[stubear1012]

This looks interesting. What about the following:

1) Do something about the American torpedo problems
The Mark 14 torpedo had four major flaws.

• It tended to run about 10 feet (3.0 m) deeper than set.
• The magnetic exploder often caused premature firing.
• The contact exploder often failed to fire the warhead.
• It tended to run "circular", failing to straighten its run once set on its prescribed gyro-angle setting, and instead, to run in a large circle, thus returning to strike the firing ship.[38]

2)I am assuming that the military will be going through their storage warehouses and sorting out their inventory. Some inventory may be junk. Some inventory may be functional but it needs cleaning/repair. I am thinking that this equipment could be sent to either the National Guard or the Philippines where they can clean it up and use it.

My father had uncles who served in WW2. He told me stories of them opening crates in the first few months of the war and everything in the crate was either rotted or rusted junk. Clearing out that inventory would give a more realistic picture of what was available and what needed to be ordered. We are talking about tents, cots, gas mask, uniforms, and so on. The benefit of finding what is usable now is that the military can buy replacement materials now versus during the rush of the war. This would help the economy.

 

[jsb]

Yeah, I suppose it would in the Hollywood movie, but the Battle of the Atlantic isn't that easily won.

In September 40 when the deal was struck there are only a few Uboats at Sea at any time (on 1st its 14, 15th 16, 30th 10) https://uboat.net/boats/patrols/search.php.

A 100+ good escorts that unlike OTL (only 30 were in service by May 1941) would get into service quickly as they are refurbished in late 30s would very seriously change the convoy situation v OTL with very few escorts.

I think the effect on the Uboat fleet would be exponential and reduce the quality and numbers of crews available in the future as well as reduce the ship loses to GB/allies?

 

[perfectgeneral]

In September 40 when the deal was struck there are only a few Uboats at Sea at any time (on 1st its 14, 15th 16, 30th 10) https://uboat.net/boats/patrols/search.php.

A 100+ good escorts that unlike OTL (only 30 were in service by May 1941) would get into service quickly as they are refurbished in late 30s would very seriously change the convoy situation v OTL with very few escorts.

I think the effect on the Uboat fleet would be exponential and reduce the quality and numbers of crews available in the future as well as reduce the ship loses to GB/allies?

The refits are a known time constraint. How about working up crews? How effective are the ASW weapons available to them in Sept 1940? No Hedgehog yet.

 

[HistoryBossMan]

Are these trucks 6x6, 6x4 or 4x4 and how much weight are they rated to carry?

Time is money, but haste makes waste. A rushed rearmament will make some less than ideal choices.

Right now, these trucks are the Mack model EH 4x2. Not great for WW2 standards but pretty good for 1936, and until the newer 6x6 trucks are designed and produced, the army will have to make do with the EH

 

[perfectgeneral]

Classic 5ton truck. Good enough for roads.