A Desert Called Peace

[joea64]

As for Bush II, let's just put it this way. My stepdad, who is as conservative as you could ask for, is so alienated and disillusioned by Dubya that he told me last month that he was seriously considering supporting Hillary. That's how badly he's alienated so much of the conservative segment of the electorate (including me).

-Joe-

 

[Archangel Michael]

As for Bush II, let's just put it this way. My stepdad, who is as conservative as you could ask for, is so alienated and disillusioned by Dubya that he told me last month that he was seriously considering supporting Hillary. That's how badly he's alienated so much of the conservative segment of the electorate (including me).

-Joe-

Let me see if I got the logic right--your stepdad is a conservative that's been alienated by Bush (was it immigration that did it?). Because he's alineated at the current president, he's going to vote for a liberal Democrat.

Who am I kidding, it makes perfect sense!

 

[Ibn Warraq]

It would be interesting to compare how many people were unlawfully detained under both administrations.

Incidentallly, how many people did Hillary have arrested?

Well, obviously the Bush administration would insist that they haven't detained anyone "unlawfully" because they would insist that all their "detentions" have been justified either by the Patriot Act or by powers granted to the executive, however I suspect that if Thomas Jefferson were alive today he would vehemently disagree, so I think it's safe to say that your inference that Bush has had far more questionable lockups than Bill Clinton.

However, it also has to be admitted that the Clinton White House is reported to have repeatedly demanded FBI files on his political opponents and a discouragingly high number of his opponents were hit with IRS audits, including IIRC Paula Jones herself.

A better question might be, had 9/11 happened on his watch, how would Clinton have resonded.

For starters, since Bill Clinton tried to pass a bunch of laws following the Oklahoma City bombing that were almost identical to the Patriot Act, I have little doubt that following an event that dwarfed the OKC bombing like 9/11, had such an event taken place in his Presidency we would have seen an even more restrictive Patriot Act.

Furthermore, while I'm no fan of John Ashcroft, I think anyone familiar with Janet Reno's career would have to agree she would have been, if anything, even more reckless when it came to civil liberties issues than either Ashcroft or Gonzales.

In short, I see no reason to think the Clinton would have had any more qualms than Bush about "unlawful detentions."

 

[Leo Caesius]

However, it also has to be admitted that the Clinton White House is reported to have repeatedly demanded FBI files on his political opponents and a discouragingly high number of his opponents were hit with IRS audits, including IIRC Paula Jones herself.

I can think of at least one presidential candidate who is very likely to do the same thing upon taking power.

And no, not (just) Hillary Clinton.

 

[Ibn Warraq]

I can think of at least one presidential candidate who is very likely to do the same thing upon taking power.

And no, not (just) Hillary Clinton.

Let me guess, last name ends with a vowel, had a movie about his life in which he was played by James Woods, has had a bunch of his top aides get in legal trouble, and for some very odd reason good-looking women seem attacted to him like moths to a flame(usually with the same result), and he's not afraid to dress in drag.

If we're thinking of the same guy I'd agree.

 

[joea64]

Let me see if I got the logic right--your stepdad is a conservative that's been alienated by Bush (was it immigration that did it?). Because he's alineated at the current president, he's going to vote for a liberal Democrat.

Who am I kidding, it makes perfect sense!

Actually, I think it was the war that did it. He's a retired Army officer, a Vietnam veteran, and he has a friend who served under him who's now a general officer in Iraq. I can't speak for him, but for my own part, it was losing focus on what the original objective was supposed to be (the destruction of Osama bin Laden and his network) that eventually did it for me. Liberal columnist Eugene Robinson pointed it out well today in today's Washington Post: it's not that the neocon objective is per se objectionable (that the way to defeat terrorism is to establish democracy in the Middle East), it's that the Administration has totally munged the process.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/09/AR2007080901903.html?sub=AR

-Joe-

 

[Redem]

And neither is the vice-president! Hi-oh!

Ya I guess someone had to saw that one coming

 

[Archangel Michael]

Ya I guess someone had to saw that one coming

I just couldn't resist.

 

[Leo Caesius]

After seeing his website I decided he was either nuts or had a very peculiar sense of humor.

I just took a look at his website, and I think it's safe to say that he has a very amusing sense of humor. But that picture makes him look like a zombie (and a Romero zombie at that).

 

[Constantinople]

From 'A State of Disobedience"

"This was brought home to all with the arrest, conviction and imprisonment of former President Thomas Jefferson Gates on charges of corruption, bribe taking, rape, aggravated sexual assault, unnatural acts, abuse of office, misappropriation of funds, and treason, the imprisonment itself leading to the former chief of state's beating, homosexual rape and murder by strangulation after his Secret Service detail was withdrawn by presidential order."

Huh, does that just seem a little bit over the top?

 

[Redem]

From 'A State of Disobedience"

"This was brought home to all with the arrest, conviction and imprisonment of former President Thomas Jefferson Gates on charges of corruption, bribe taking, rape, aggravated sexual assault, unnatural acts, abuse of office, misappropriation of funds, and treason, the imprisonment itself leading to the former chief of state's beating, homosexual rape and murder by strangulation after his Secret Service detail was withdrawn by presidential order."

Huh, does that just seem a little bit over the top?

Well you see by throwing as musch as accusation as possible one of them bound to be truth

Thomas Jefferson Gates wonder if he's related to Benjamin Franklin Gates the lead character in national treasure

 

[Greg Grant]

From 'A State of Disobedience"

"This was brought home to all with the arrest, conviction and imprisonment of former President Thomas Jefferson Gates on charges of corruption, bribe taking, rape, aggravated sexual assault, unnatural acts, abuse of office, misappropriation of funds, and treason, the imprisonment itself leading to the former chief of state's beating, homosexual rape and murder by strangulation after his Secret Service detail was withdrawn by presidential order."

Huh, does that just seem a little bit over the top?

I am glad the author of the book felt the need to explain that this was no ordinary rape. Nay, it was homosexual rape. Homosexual. Was it underlined and in bold in the manuscript? Did the editor look at it and go, "Hmmm, needs more of a kick."